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-   -   The Cincinnati Wagner "Graded" (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=142356)

jerseygary 04-02-2012 10:21 PM

Well, master printer Arnie Schwed says it's real, so what more do you want?

Seriously, I've never seen that video before and boy what a sad story it makes. I have to hand it to those two fellas for riding it out this long, but it still don't make that reprint real. If so, me and my little brother would be on easy street living off those Dover Reprint books my Mom bought us back in the early 80's!

Matthew H 04-02-2012 10:49 PM

Lol eBay already cut the auction

Bilko G 04-03-2012 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew H (Post 980724)
Lol eBay already cut the auction

Ebay didn't cut the auction. Had Ebay cut the auction you wouldn't be able to see the pics, description, opening bid, etc.

The sellers stopped the auction shortly after starting it. Id imagine they did this as a "test" to see how it looked and that they had all their info on there how they wanted it.

cobblove 04-03-2012 02:13 AM

I bet they were testing to see if ebay would cut the auction early if they listed it.

2dueces 04-03-2012 06:13 AM

Geez, I'm really tired of this story and card. Can we please just chalk this up as a fake and put it to bed once and for all. No one with money to buy a Wagner is going to touch this card with a ten foot pole.

Mdoe 04-03-2012 07:29 AM

It is humurous, and a bit ironic, that the suggested items on the ebay auction page are all reprint Wagners vice real T206s...

One would think that if you are trying to sell an item for 600K, you would at least check spelling and grammer of your listing.

DerekD 04-03-2012 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilko G (Post 980735)
Ebay didn't cut the auction. Had Ebay cut the auction you wouldn't be able to see the pics, description, opening bid, etc.

The sellers stopped the auction shortly after starting it. Id imagine they did this as a "test" to see how it looked and that they had all their info on there how they wanted it.


I'd say it's was just an ad to point to their website, which they only put in there five times. Hopefully it will get reported enough that ebay will remove it totally.

barrysloate 04-03-2012 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdoe (Post 980782)
It is humurous, and a bit ironic, that the suggested items on the ebay auction page are all reprint Wagners vice real T206s...

One would think that if you are trying to sell an item for 600K, you would at least check spelling and grammer of your listing.

Correct spelling is "grammar.":)....sorry, couldn't resist.

frankbmd 04-03-2012 08:59 AM

Grammar in the eyes of the beholder
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdoe View Post
It is humurous, and a bit ironic, that the suggested items on the ebay auction page are all reprint Wagners vice real T206s...

One would think that if you are trying to sell an item for 600K, you would at least check spelling and grammer of your listing.
Correct spelling is "grammar."....sorry, couldn't resist.

Barry,

That comment was not humurous (????????) :D:D:D:D:D:D
grammarically (????) speaking. I couldn't resist either.

Frank

Mdoe 04-03-2012 11:35 AM

I clearly have the poor grammar part down... Now I just need to create my own Wagner T206 and a website dedicated to proving its authenticity...:p

bobbyw8469 04-03-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Do you end auctions early?

Sorry, but we do not end auction early. Auctions will go for the full duration

LOL!! Looks like they ended the auction early!

iggyman 04-12-2012 12:57 PM

Just when you thought it was safe to be a suburbanite prewar card collector. They're here!

http://www.virtual-strategy.com/2012...er-set-auction

There's a place for us.........Somewhere a place for us.......Peace and quiet........and open air..........Wait for us.........Somewhere.........

Lovely Day...

g_vezina_c55 04-12-2012 01:24 PM

another step in the saga.

bn2cardz 04-12-2012 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggyman (Post 983345)
Just when you thought it was safe to be a suburbanite prewar card collector. They're here!

http://www.virtual-strategy.com/2012...er-set-auction

There's a place for us.........Somewhere a place for us.......Peace and quiet........and open air..........Wait for us.........Somewhere.........

Lovely Day...

I have learned that the cousins are writing these stories and distributing them using the web site http://www.prweb.com/. The site is used for companies to send out press releases to online news companies. The news companies just grab the stories from them without discernment.

barrysloate 04-12-2012 01:42 PM

The owners say "We want everyone to have the facts."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but has anybody seen any facts up to this point?

Leon 04-12-2012 04:40 PM

the auctioneer
 
I called the auctioneer today and left a message. He called me back and seems like a really nice guy. We spoke for approximately 25 minutes. He knows the whole story. At the end of the day I think it is more about publicity. I told him at the end of all of this he will be out a lot of time, make no money and could possibly be a laughing stock. He took it in stride. He says he is only going by all of the experts who have authenticated it and is a venue only. I guess the company who authenticated it knows some hockey player....or vice versa and that gives them some credibility, according to him. After we spoke and spoke I just had to let him know that no matter what is said, or done.....it is still just a fake card. Plain and simple.

Runscott 04-12-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate (Post 983365)
The owners say "We want everyone to have the facts."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but has anybody seen any facts up to this point?

There are two facts:

1. It's a reprint
2. The sellers know it's a reprint

CW 04-12-2012 05:29 PM

Quote:

Chris Felix, Cincinnati sports artist who was commissioned by the ToppsTrading Card Company 2 years ago will be featuring an original painting that illustrates the cousins 10 year journey.
Wow. How exactly does an artist render 10 years of epic failure on canvas?

I will admit, I have been mildly entertained by this whole ordeal. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. I am also curious to see if eBay actually lets this auction run its full course.

The real irony here is that if these two cousins had spent this much time and energy on a credible, legitimate business venture, they would've likely been on their way to making close to the same amount of money that they seek for this "Wagner".


_______________________________
€hû¢k Wölƒƒ

Tsaiko 04-12-2012 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott (Post 983422)
There are two facts:

1. It's a reprint
2. The sellers know it's a reprint

1. They're fake breasts
2. She knows they're fake, we know they're fake.
3. Someone won't know or someone won't care.

P. T. Barnum said it best......

The potentially sad thing about this, is that someone ignorant of the hobby might buy it, then a month later they'll stumble onto net54 and want to show off their new possession. :(

g_vezina_c55 04-12-2012 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsaiko (Post 983445)

The potentially sad thing about this, is that someone ignorant of the hobby might buy it, then a month later they'll stumble onto net54 and want to show off their new possession. :(


Hope this will not happen.

CW 04-18-2012 09:38 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The auction appears to be live, with a starting bid of only $500K...

Link to eBay auction edit: auction pulled. Link will not work.

They have also posted what appears to be a new YouTube video, as well as a preview of the new painting created to depict the owners' ordeal with this card. Yes, it keeps getting better!

http://youtu.be/DrZNmp_eYMY

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DrZNmp_eYMY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

CW 04-18-2012 09:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Had to post this screen cap. Gold.

WhenItWasAHobby 04-19-2012 06:31 AM

Disclaimer in the latest Ebay listing
 
This screams volumes. My only issue with it is that it should be in size 24 font in bold print at the top of the description.

Disclaimer:
Manage My Auction, LLC and the listing agent makes no representations or statements of fact on the authenticity of the Cobb / Edwards T206 Honus Wagner Piedmont back baseball card. Manage My Auction, LLC, is a third party professional auction listing services company. We are not affiliated with eBay. We are an independent company. Viewers of this page and bidders agree and acknowledge that they will indemnify and hold harmless Manage My Auction, LLC and its officers, members, employees, partners, agents and staff from any and all claims, causes of action, actions, suits, errors, judgments, actions, failure to obtain any licenses, releases and/or consents and demands as a result of any acts of omission, negligence, injuries or damage to persons and/or property arising out of or in connection with the use of the services specified. Viewers and bidders also certifies that any information and/or materials supplied to Manage My Auction, LLC by Ray Edwards and John Cobb is accurate and complete and therefore Manage My Auction, LLC is not liable for any inaccurate and/or incomplete information or materials provided by Ray Edwards and John Cobb to Manage My Auction, LLC.

bn2cardz 04-19-2012 09:19 AM

I posted yesterday (a lost post) that it is obvious from the disclaimer that the Auction company is not taking any position on whether it is authentic. To me, since they are the posters on ebay, that is an authenticity disclaimer that Ebay is not suppose to allow.

Also I noticed in their description they reference the t206museum. If you go to their site they have a picture of the card and it says it is a fake. That seems like a backfire on their part. haha :D

bn2cardz 04-19-2012 09:47 AM

I see ebay took down the auction. I guess managemyauction and ACA didn't have it worked out with ebay like they claimed.

Runscott 04-19-2012 10:01 AM

Cut the guy some slack - I really think he meant to say 'HOBBIT', which of course makes perfect sense. I mean, Hobbits can't really authenticate anything.

http://net54baseball.com/attachment....1&d=1334807320

bn2cardz 04-19-2012 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runscott (Post 985186)
cut the guy some slack - i really think he meant to say 'hobbit', which of course makes perfect sense. I mean, hobbits can't really authenticate anything.

http://net54baseball.com/attachment....1&d=1334807320

haha

ullmandds 04-19-2012 10:40 AM

i sent the seller a message this morning telling him/her what a joke this auction was as the card is a pathetic fake worth about $1 maximum...I wonder if this had any impact!?

bn2cardz 04-19-2012 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 985202)
i sent the seller a message this morning telling him/her what a joke this auction was as the card is a pathetic fake worth about $1 maximum...I wonder if this had any impact!?

I reported it to ebay as having a "authenticity disclaimer". So even if they got permission for having an ACA graded card, I can't imagine it could make it past the disclaimer problem.

tbob 04-19-2012 11:41 AM

"Why don't those in the collecting hobby except science."
Hobbyists don't disavow science, I think he means why don't they accept science.
I feel sorry for the guy because it's obvious he feels the card is genuine no matter how much opinion and information is stacked against him.
He needs to deal with the fact the card is not genuine. period.

ctownboy 04-19-2012 12:34 PM

I was going to ask the sellers this question.

If I were to take an authentic T206 baseball card produced in 1910 that had a Piedmont back and I cut that back off and then glued on the front of a Honus Wagner reproduction, could I also have a forensic examiner test only the BACK paper fibers, have an obscure Canadian company grade the card and say it is an error or unknown variation and then list it on eBay for a starting bid of $500,000 dollars?

I doubt they would list the question on eBay or respond (or if they did, I am sure it would be something derogatory and full of misspelled words).

David

barrysloate 04-19-2012 12:52 PM

Now that ebay shut him down, is it possible he will finally come around to the fact that his card is no good? Or will he look for yet another venue to try and sell it? At some point he needs to face reality.

Runscott 04-19-2012 01:46 PM

Hey, one of the cuckoos fell out of the nest...

How the f**k are you. First I have been on ebay since 2002, check my HBO and ESPN videos (www.honuswagnerauction.com) or yutube Cobb and Edwards. Secound Mr. know it all on T206's, what company reprinted my card. I need the company name. Don't call it a reprint and you don't know the company that reprinted the card. Also I have been collecting cards and other items for over 30 years. I know what I have and have done the research to prove what I have is the real deal. Do your research and tell me what company reprinted my card since you are calling it a reprint. Good look on finding that company. And if you are not interested in buying my card, then mind your business and move on.....

- rainbow95x87

ullmandds 04-19-2012 01:56 PM

Not lookin' like it barry!

barrysloate 04-19-2012 02:07 PM

You're right Peter...these guys aren't giving up. Of course, it wouldn't hurt them to get some manners....

bn2cardz 04-19-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott (Post 985270)
Hey, one of the cuckoos fell out of the nest...

How the f**k are you. First I have been on ebay since 2002, check my HBO and ESPN videos (www.honuswagnerauction.com) or yutube Cobb and Edwards. Secound Mr. know it all on T206's, what company reprinted my card. I need the company name. Don't call it a reprint and you don't know the company that reprinted the card. Also I have been collecting cards and other items for over 30 years. I know what I have and have done the research to prove what I have is the real deal. Do your research and tell me what company reprinted my card since you are calling it a reprint. Good look on finding that company. And if you are not interested in buying my card, then mind your business and move on.....

- rainbow95x87

Why do they think that every company that makes reprints acknowledges that they are making a reprint?

drc 04-19-2012 03:01 PM

Aren't the authentic versions supposed to say 'No a reprint' on them?

bbcard1 04-19-2012 03:03 PM

I do admire their tenacity. I only wish they were doing something productive.

I once had a friend who was very gifted at arguing that a bird and a fish were the same animal. But a bird can fly. Some fish can fly. But fish live in the water. Ducks live in the water and they are birds.

I think these guys would get along very well with my friend. I might add, you can look at a fish and tell it's not a bird.

drc 04-19-2012 03:21 PM

Sorry. Birds are on the water.

Runscott 04-19-2012 03:49 PM

These guys would fail the 'fish=bird' debate miserably - their logic is flawed on so many levels it isn't funny. My favorites:
  • any T206 that has a factory designation on the back is by definition, 'authentic'
  • if it doesn't say 'reprint' on it, then it isn't a reprint
  • if you have a video on the internet, then you are by definition correct
  • ...
  • ...wait for it...
  • ...
  • ...
  • ...
  • ...
  • ...
  • ...the number one most flawed piece of the 'Scam Cousins' logic...
  • you can create a real T206 Wagner from a reprint


Well, that last item wasn't exactly an example of 'logic', but I felt like venting.

scmavl 03-04-2022 08:52 AM

For those that remember this, here is a fun little update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI3mP8xV-KE

(I did a search in case this has already been posted, but didn't see it)

Dead-Ball-Hitter 03-04-2022 11:06 AM

Picture of it slabbed
 
1 Attachment(s)
Pictures of the card are now circulating online, see below:

MVSNYC 03-04-2022 11:14 AM

The show was interesting. We know this story from many years ago. Unfortunately for Ray, the card is wrong in so many ways. The investigation can start and stop with the large (not accurate to T206) name, team caption.

JustinD 03-04-2022 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Klein (Post 929868)
ACA Grading, based in St-Jerome, Quebec, met with the men recently and after examining the card, decided it was an "unreleased version" of the hobby's most famous trading card, issued in 1909 and then recalled after objections by Wagner.

https://everythingisviral.com/wp-con...It-Is.jpg.webp

z28jd 03-04-2022 11:46 AM

This show was from early 2013, covered here https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=161975

As you can see a few pages back in this post, I have the same reprint card they have and freely shared scans of it at the time. I would not be working right now if that card was real, I would have sold it 20 years ago, and I wouldn't just assume it was fake unless I didn't have 650+ real T206 cards to compare it to. They refused to take expert opinions on the card, as if auction houses wouldn't be beating down their door to sell that card

scmavl 03-04-2022 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z28jd (Post 2202229)
This show was from early 2013, covered here https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=161975

Ah, I searched "Edwards Wagner", but didn't see that come up in my search. Maybe the dash messed me up. Just one of those legendary hobby stories...

philliesfan 03-04-2022 02:57 PM

I must have been in a coma as I have never seen this story before.

When I saw the scan of the card on the first page, I started laughing.

Bob

Fred 03-04-2022 03:08 PM

Wow, blast from the past.

joshleon 03-04-2022 03:30 PM

I watched that entire video and loved it....not for one second did I think it was real...neither did the investigators.

"T206 Earl Gray Portrait with piedmont back"

Misunderestimated 03-04-2022 09:32 PM

At the beginning of the video it recites as fact the number of T206s produced and the number of T206 Wagners produced. Are these facts known?

(This video was interesting and sad although I kinda knew how it would end).

Mark17 03-04-2022 10:00 PM

I loved how the card owner, quite uncomfortably, gave his lame excuse why a multi-million dollar card would be graded by someone other than the Big 3.

53toppscollector 03-04-2022 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark17 (Post 2202471)
I loved how the card owner, quite uncomfortably, gave his lame excuse why a multi-million dollar card would be graded by someone other than the Big 3.

hes been at it for so long. I wonder how he is able to afford all of these shenanigans, unless he is being paid to be humiliated on these shows.

glynparson 03-05-2022 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls7plus (Post 933347)
Much more closer to the truth is that you would be completely lost without one, as the counterfeit details of many of those cards are not at all clear to the naked eye. With regard to the trimmed cards, many of the most famous dealers prior to TPG in the early '90's carred a loupe with them to shows where they bought raw material in order to check the edges in just the manner I specified, because the cards would indeed measure correctly, and the trimming could not be detected with the human eye. Instead, magnification was required to properly examine the edges and to compare their much sharper appearance against those known to have been factory cuts.

It would clearly seem that you have voluntarily chosen to fall within the category of those befallen by prejudice and/or arrogance, prefering to decide the issue presented on the basis of who these people who own the card are and how different they are from you, when what is really important are the actual facts pertaining to the card itself. You can attempt to rebutt me all you like, but you can't kid yourself about what you really see deep inside you, and you won't change the actual facts about your behavior until you yourself change! Your hostility is only indicative of the truth of the above, which, when you've been brought face to face with it, brings about resentment on your part, and the nastiness comes through. I feel sorrow for your pent-up hatred, which causes you to behave in a manner which you most likely would not prefer, and tends quite strongly to make a complete fool out of you.

Best wishes on a successful metamorphis, becoming a person more willing to objectively consider various sources of actually relevant information, rather than jump to a conclusion based on all the wrong reasons. Remember, my initial post in this thread merely indicated I would like to have more objective information conderning the card itself, rather than people's reactions to the identity of the would-be seller. I did not take any position with regard to the card's validity at all, and most assuredly did not start the nasty comments, but as you have readily seen, am more than capable of defending my position against them.

Larry

And Larry wonders why I think he’s a fool. This is clearly why, next time you see me I’ll know since I couldn’t recall why I thought you were an idiot the last time we talked at a national. You are a moron if you need a loupe to tell that cards bad. Sorry that’s just a fact. Not that anyone who reads your dumb arse posts wouldn’t already know you are a fool. I don’t care what race those gentlemen are only an ignorant clown would defend that card and say something so idiotic like you need a loupe. What ignorance for such a longtime collector.

rjackson44 03-05-2022 04:43 AM

Probably the most idiotic thing I’ve ever watched😳😳

jingram058 03-05-2022 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philliesfan (Post 2202317)
I must have been in a coma as I have never seen this story before.

When I saw the scan of the card on the first page, I started laughing.

Bob

+1 on everything he said

I will just add...5 page thread about probably the fakiest fake card of all time!

rjackson44 03-05-2022 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jingram058 (Post 2202516)
+1 on everything he said

I will just add...5 page thread about probably the fakiest fake card of all time!

Agreed you think🥺🥺


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