to summerize the thread:

1. wagner can not be a broadleaf
2. the flip should be changed to not dupe idiots
3. terminology used is legal mumbo jumbo
4. they prolly wont change it due to monetary making and liability issues
5. fine print still blows
6. no one feels good defending psa

did i miss anything?

Pretty much hit the nail on the head and saved many folks several pages of repetitive post.

YUP, I blame the lawyers!

lawyers, guns and money.

Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll \m/\m/

If nothing else PSA should not even send out a flip or make the flip a different color so as not to give the counterfeiters real flips for their trade.

what does sgc/bvg do?

(not knocking, i seriously do not know)

BVG would absolutely be questionable authenticity.

i was asking in regards to a flip?

do they provide the exact one that would go in the holder or is there a completely seperate form they return that doesnt resemble a flip?

i think i worded that decently...

No, the provide a little slip of paper with boxes they check - they do not provide a flip like PSA.

so. screw the wording on the flip?

just dont even give one?

take the few extra seconds to internally "recall the flip" if its a fake and check a box.

stop making sense!!

My belief is SGC would be-

X Counterfeit COU

If there is no question it is fake that is their policy acccording to the phone call I just had with their customer service.


If there is some question as to it's authenticity they use-

N . Cannot/Do Not Grade.. NO


.

A PSA flip didn't cause this one to get bid up over $1,000...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-T206-Ho...0AAOSwoudW2TnE

If you want to blame anyone, blame human nature and why people buy lottery tickets or go to casinos. It's all the same phenomenon.

"If you see a T206 Wagner on ebay selling for less than $100,000, then it is a fake 100% of the time." This is a fact. If you find yourself struggling with this fact, and trying to think of exceptions to the rule, then you are one step closer to bidding on this crap than you should be. You will never be the guy that discovers such a once-in-a-lifetime find on ebay.

"This thread is about a pre-war card"

Well, not really. It's probably c. 2015. Although PSA could have been clearer on the matter.


And I'm still curious about the bidders. To repeat a question from my last post, if they thought that it was real, why did bidding end up at $80? If I thought there was a real Wagner to be had, my bids would have been some orders of magnitude higher than that. Say this Wagner would be worth 800k (number made up for sake of argument, actual number doesn't really matter). If there's even a 1% chance that this is real you should be willing to bid up to $8000 on it. So the bidders are saying that they can tell with 99.99% certainty that it's fake, but that they're not QUITE sure? Really?

Fixed it
 

Pat, your post #98 made me LOL :)

I agree with many who have said that the wording can be confusing, misleading. Most wouldn't know what "? AUTHTCT" is. Hell, I didn't recall seeing that before and initially thought the flip was a fake :confused:

Not blaming PSA, just think they could word it better - especially since the N4 code that references whatever ? AUTHTCT specifically notes counterfeit.

That's what bugs me, too. The total irrationality of it. Like an admission it's fake but the uncontrollable urge to spend money anyway.

If that's the case I'll edit my original posts.

Another one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/t206-honus-w...AAAOSwWntXMm79

.. and then posed as "unknown/questionable"

If someone actually pays 9k for that I think we're going to see a lot more sellers submitting fake Wagners and re-selling on Ebay. Begsu's suggestion of not issuing a flip with these, and just checking box that says questionable authenticity on a piece of paper seems like an easy way to avoid this situation.

They could use common sense and put COUnterfeit on the flip but then again, why make it easy?

I'll pass. I'm still saving up for the Cincinnati Wagner.