Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes (Post 1162108)

IMO, Braun maybe the only suspension out of this fracas. It is tough to believe that MLB would want the PR nightmare of spreading out these less than favorable announcements of these image shattering PED suspensions...if anything, they would want to make all the suspension announcements at one time in order to be minimize the PR nightmare/fallout.

Ironically, they even announced Braun's suspension on the same day that England's newest Prince was born(an easily predictable event). While Braun's suspension is quite news worthy (for all of the wrong reasons), the story was completely minimized by the birth of the Prince. This is likely just want MLB wanted...it appears to be no coincidence that MLB waited for a busy news day where the Braun story could be buried by another huge (worldwide) media

Three of the names mentioned with this scandal included Braun, Cabrera, and Colon. All three have failed PED tests, while only the latter two have served 50 game suspensions. Likely, MLB did not further penalize either of these two as they had already served 50 gamers. IMO, without negative test results for the other players linked to the scandal, MLB will be hardpressed to prove anything about these players alleged use of PEDs or involvement with Biogenesis.

Braun was simply lowhanging fruit for MLB because he did have a failed PED test (that likely linked him to Biogensis) as evidence and had not served a suspension.

Originally Posted by Wite3 (Post 1162093)

Again,
Voiding contracts for PED use might be problematic. The athlete can then declare an addiction which is a protected class and cannot be fired under the ADA as they are not "at will" employees and if they seek treatment...lawyers help me out here...

Many of the contracts now employed by the MLB teams and the CBA do allow the void of contracts due to moral issues including lying which is rather easy to prove because if you are using a banned substance when you negotiated (or re-negotiated) your contract, you were not bargaining in good faith.

It is very complicated and I am just a teacher but I do have some familiarity with some of the cases here and know a bunch about ADA, Hippa, and CBAs.

Joshua

Originally Posted by Wite3 (Post 1162093)

Again,
Voiding contracts for PED use might be problematic. The athlete can then declare an addiction which is a protected class and cannot be fired under the ADA as they are not "at will" employees and if they seek treatment...lawyers help me out here...

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes (Post 1162108)

Ironically, they even announced Braun's suspension on the same day that England's newest Prince was born(an easily predictable event). While Braun's suspension is quite news worthy (for all of the wrong reasons), the story was completely minimized by the birth of the Prince. This is likely just want MLB wanted...it appears to be no coincidence that MLB waited for a busy news day where the Braun story could be buried by another huge (worldwide) media event.

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1162049)

Stiff penalties won't stop it. I doubt much will.

A few quotes from another sport, one that began testing in the 60's, and has fairly stiff penalties. And STILL has people removed from its premier event every year.

"The top riders are obliged to be fresh each time and they can't do that without stimulants. Nobody could or ever will be able to do that because there are no such things as supermen. Doping is necessary in cycling."

Rik van Steenbergen, a top pro in the 40s and 50s

"My closets now will be empty of syringes and prohibited substances. The majority of racers resort to drug products, and those who refuse to admit it are liars."

Dietrich Thurau, many pro wins in 70s and 80s

"I do not wish to hear spoken the word doping. Rather, one must say 'treating yourself,' and speak of treatments that are not appropriate for ordinary mortals. You cannot compete in the Tour de France on mineral water alone."

Jacques Anquetil, Won TDF five times in 50s and 60s

"In 1924, the legendary Pelissier brothers-noted as much for their brutal attacks on the road as their criticism of Tour organizers-abandoned the race over what they considered to be an unfair ruling. Pélissier, Francis and another rider, Maurice Ville, abandoned the Tour at Coutances in 1924 after Desgrange had not let Pélissier to take off a jersey as the sun came up. They were met in the station café by the journalist Albert Londres, who normally wrote about social and international affairs but was following the Tour for Le Petit Parisien. Londres' piece, reproduced largely as a dialogue, appeared under the headline Les Forçats de la Route.
"You wouldn't believe that all this is about nothing more than a few jerseys. This morning, in Cherbourg, a race official came up to me and without a word, he pulled up my jersey to check that I'm not wearing two. What would you say if I pulled open your waistcoat to see if your shirt was clean? That's the way these people behave and I won't stand for it. That's what this is all about." "But what if you were wearing two jerseys?" "That's the point. If I want to, I can wear 15. What I can't do is start with two and finish with only one." "Why not?" "Because that's the rule. We don't only have to work like donkeys, we have to freeze or suffocate as well. Apparently that's an important part of the sport. So I went off to find Desgrange. 'I can't throw my jersey on the road, then?' 'No,' he said, 'you can't throw away anything provided by the organisation.' 'But this isn't the organisation's—it's mine.' "'I don't conduct arguments in the street,' he said. 'OK,' I said, 'if you're not prepared to talk about it in the street, I'm going back to bed.' "'We'll sort it all out in Brest', he said. It will definitely be sorted out in Brest, I said, because I'm quitting. And I did."
Pélissier went to his brother, Francis, told him his decision and encouraged him to do the same. Francis said that suited him because he had a bad stomach and no enthusiasm for racing. Ville said he hadn't been part of the strike but that the other two had picked him up along the road. He was too tired to go on, he said.
"You have no idea what the Tour de France is,' Henri said. "It's a calvary. And what's more, the way to the cross only had 14 stations — we've got 15.[7] We suffer on the road. But do you want to see how we keep going? Wait...' From his bag he takes a phial. "That, that's cocaine for our eyes and chloroform for our gums..." "Here," said Ville, tipping out the contents of his bag, "horse liniment to keep my knees warm. And pills? You want to see the pills?" They got out three boxes apiece. "In short," said Francis, "we run on dynamite.' Henri takes up the story. "You ever seen the baths at the finish? It's worth buying a ticket. You go in plastered with mud and you come out as white as a sheet. We're drained all the time by diarrhoea. Have a look at the water. We can't sleep at night. We're twitching as if we've got St Vitus's Dance. You see my shoelaces? They're leather, as hard as nails, but they're always breaking. So imagine what happens to our skin. And our toenails. I've lost six. They fall off a bit at a time all through the stage. They wouldn't treat mules the way we're treated. We're not weaklings, but my God, they treat us so brutally. And if I so much as stick a newspaper under my jersey at the start, they check to see it's still there at the finish. One day they'll start putting lumps of lead in our pocket because God made men too light."
Londres had the best colour piece he'd ever written, although Francis claimed afterwards they'd taken advantage of his gullibility by exaggerating.*

*It should be noted that the Pellissiers were know for having an odd sense of humor, some think the entire thing was a put -on.


The earliest case in cycling was 1886.

Steve B

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1162049)

Stiff penalties won't stop it. I doubt much will.

A few quotes from another sport, one that began testing in the 60's, and has fairly stiff penalties. And STILL has people removed from its premier event every year.

"The top riders are obliged to be fresh each time and they can't do that without stimulants. Nobody could or ever will be able to do that because there are no such things as supermen. Doping is necessary in cycling."

Rik van Steenbergen, a top pro in the 40s and 50s

"My closets now will be empty of syringes and prohibited substances. The majority of racers resort to drug products, and those who refuse to admit it are liars."

Dietrich Thurau, many pro wins in 70s and 80s

"I do not wish to hear spoken the word doping. Rather, one must say 'treating yourself,' and speak of treatments that are not appropriate for ordinary mortals. You cannot compete in the Tour de France on mineral water alone."

Jacques Anquetil, Won TDF five times in 50s and 60s

"In 1924, the legendary Pelissier brothers-noted as much for their brutal attacks on the road as their criticism of Tour organizers-abandoned the race over what they considered to be an unfair ruling. Pélissier, Francis and another rider, Maurice Ville, abandoned the Tour at Coutances in 1924 after Desgrange had not let Pélissier to take off a jersey as the sun came up. They were met in the station café by the journalist Albert Londres, who normally wrote about social and international affairs but was following the Tour for Le Petit Parisien. Londres' piece, reproduced largely as a dialogue, appeared under the headline Les Forçats de la Route.
"You wouldn't believe that all this is about nothing more than a few jerseys. This morning, in Cherbourg, a race official came up to me and without a word, he pulled up my jersey to check that I'm not wearing two. What would you say if I pulled open your waistcoat to see if your shirt was clean? That's the way these people behave and I won't stand for it. That's what this is all about." "But what if you were wearing two jerseys?" "That's the point. If I want to, I can wear 15. What I can't do is start with two and finish with only one." "Why not?" "Because that's the rule. We don't only have to work like donkeys, we have to freeze or suffocate as well. Apparently that's an important part of the sport. So I went off to find Desgrange. 'I can't throw my jersey on the road, then?' 'No,' he said, 'you can't throw away anything provided by the organisation.' 'But this isn't the organisation's—it's mine.' "'I don't conduct arguments in the street,' he said. 'OK,' I said, 'if you're not prepared to talk about it in the street, I'm going back to bed.' "'We'll sort it all out in Brest', he said. It will definitely be sorted out in Brest, I said, because I'm quitting. And I did."
Pélissier went to his brother, Francis, told him his decision and encouraged him to do the same. Francis said that suited him because he had a bad stomach and no enthusiasm for racing. Ville said he hadn't been part of the strike but that the other two had picked him up along the road. He was too tired to go on, he said.
"You have no idea what the Tour de France is,' Henri said. "It's a calvary. And what's more, the way to the cross only had 14 stations — we've got 15.[7] We suffer on the road. But do you want to see how we keep going? Wait...' From his bag he takes a phial. "That, that's cocaine for our eyes and chloroform for our gums..." "Here," said Ville, tipping out the contents of his bag, "horse liniment to keep my knees warm. And pills? You want to see the pills?" They got out three boxes apiece. "In short," said Francis, "we run on dynamite.' Henri takes up the story. "You ever seen the baths at the finish? It's worth buying a ticket. You go in plastered with mud and you come out as white as a sheet. We're drained all the time by diarrhoea. Have a look at the water. We can't sleep at night. We're twitching as if we've got St Vitus's Dance. You see my shoelaces? They're leather, as hard as nails, but they're always breaking. So imagine what happens to our skin. And our toenails. I've lost six. They fall off a bit at a time all through the stage. They wouldn't treat mules the way we're treated. We're not weaklings, but my God, they treat us so brutally. And if I so much as stick a newspaper under my jersey at the start, they check to see it's still there at the finish. One day they'll start putting lumps of lead in our pocket because God made men too light."
Londres had the best colour piece he'd ever written, although Francis claimed afterwards they'd taken advantage of his gullibility by exaggerating.*

*It should be noted that the Pellissiers were know for having an odd sense of humor, some think the entire thing was a put -on.


The earliest case in cycling was 1886.

Steve B

Originally Posted by the 'stache (Post 1162563)

Steve, it's been said that as long as there is the incentive to cheat, the cheaters will always stay ahead of the testing methods. We may just have to realize that there is no way to ever completely clean up baseball. If they were able to reduce drug usage, the players would find another edge. I guess it's human nature. It doesn't make things any easier. I'd love to know that everybody was on an even playing field. But it sounds like a dream at this point unfortunately.