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They should be!
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knowing psa they will stand by it. didn't the guy who graded the card state it was trimmed?
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oh boy,
here we go with the charity religious song and dance!:eek: Quote:
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Didn't see it posted, so here is a link to a raw copy the indictment:
http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/pr/c...pr0725_01a.pdf |
lmao
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http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hick0088/clas...101/false.html |
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http://www.psacard.com/SiteSearch.ch...UTF-8&q=mastro |
He does seem to be religious, as evident of this part of the indictment.
i. Beginning no later than in or about 2001 and continuing until at least in or about December 2008, defendant MASTRO placed shill bids, and caused others to place shill bids, using several accounts, including defendant MASTRO’s account, a fictitious account, Mastro Auctions’ corporate bidding account, employee accounts, and accounts in the names of defendant MASTRO’s family members, a priest, and others. |
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-...icle-1.1121644
I was shocked to see Peter Nash’s name in the article isn’t the author aware Peter is trying to make the hobby a better place? |
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One bright side of this mess is at least next year’s National finding dealers/auction houses booths should be a simple process.
http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn..._jailphoto.jpg "Can I see that Cobb item?" Buyer "Open up 23!" Guard |
PSA culpable ?
does PSA get off the hook in this ? For years collectors have felt that PSA was quite liberal in grading Mastronet submitted collectibles.Hard to prove ,just conjecture.How many of you guys think that Joe Orlando gets entangled in this fiasco ?
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That's funny!! Tony |
I don't see how PSA can avoid it, but Peter and Jeff should have insights.
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I don't have any personal knowledge but I suspect Joe Orlando gave all the info he has on this issue to the prosecutors. And if any of it was valuable he most likely testified in the grand jury. At some point the full truth wil come out which is good for us, not so good for Doug and Bill.
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I suppose it could try to distance itself from Bill Hughes, claim that it never would have condoned what he did if it had known the card was trimmed, and emphasize that Hughes only was at PSA a short time. I suppose it depends in part on Bill's story, assuming he tells it. If he implicates David Hall, that doesn't create very much wiggle room. |
I suspect Joe told the Feds the truth about card -- I don't believe he's been charged with lying to a federal officer. I suspect Joe is praying this case doesn't go to trial.
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I think you forget you're talking about Joe Orlando. He'd rather eat thumbtacks than tell the truth publicly about that card. In a grand jury under oath? Different story.
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The Wagner was the 1st card PSA graded. I wonder how many current employees (Incl Joe O.) were even at PSA?
So I doub't anyone has 1st hand knowledge of the slabbing. So perhaps the feds need to talk to Hughes, Rochhi or anyone that was working there 15 years ago or so. |
Just because he doesn't have first-hand knowledge of what happened with the card doesn't mean he's unaware of what occurred. It would be nice for PSA to tell the truth about it publicly. Eventually it will come out and eventually the present owner might want compensation.
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Wagner
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Do you know how a situation like that may be handled? If Ken wants his money back for the card, and PSA gives it to him, does he have to turn the card over to PSA at that point? Does he get the money and keep the card? Just curious. Tony |
I had a PSA card that was mis-graded. I got full payment, they kept the card.
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Has everyone already seen this but me?
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It's from an old Lipset auction. What about it?
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Just something I've never seen before. Circumstantial evidence at a minimum; perhaps more? Wasn't it always speculated that Mastro had the card cut? If so why is Lipset selling it uncut??:confused:
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Ok Thanks! That does make more sense. I'm sure others will chime in on this as well.
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Peter- I believe that card is currently in the Hall of Fame. The "jumbo Wagner" is a different example.
I feel that the current owner of the PSA 8 Wagner should get substantial compensation, and then I think PSA should take it back and relabel it "AUTH". Once they do that it's a perfectly marketable card at any time with a spectacular eye appeal. Plus, it will finally be properly graded. If all this information becomes public it can't remain in an 8 holder. |
So when Lipset stated "probably the finest copy known to exist", he was unaware of the Wagner Lifson/Mastro bought? What happened to the Plank that was listed in ex-mt and Lajoie near mint??
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How does PSA explain itself if it does that? Does it blame Bill Hughes? Fall on its sword and say our bad? |
Wagner video
Any one else see this video "Wagner testing".......... think it's from the Cobb/Edwards card.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gItjwny1Zk |
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The slab is what makes the card infamous or famous, whichever you prefer and the developing story makes it more interesting to collectors as each day passes. Afterall, this is the card everyone is talking about, not the other ones that are technically a better grade. |
You can't have the most famous and most valuable card in the hobby remain a sham. It's not an 8 and never was. It's time for it to be reholdered.
It's very possible the current owner would refuse to do it, as is his prerogative. Or maybe he bought it because he wanted to own the best baseball card in existence, and now he will realize it isn't. So PSA or the seller or the previous owner has to compensate him big time, and then he can have it reholdered. It's still a gorgeous card and would sell for a whole lot of money. But not for millions, and not as a NR MT/MT. If the hobby is to be purged of all this garbage, that card has to be a part of it. |
T-206 Wagner
Let's say that the PSA 8 Wagner gets reholdered to a PSA Auth slab.
What is the next best Wagner available at that point? PSA 5? Tony |
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This whole story is shameful |
According to Legendary ;)
1. PSA NM-MT 8: Bill Mastro → Jim Copeland → Wayne Gretzky/Bruce McNall → Mike Gidwitz/Rob Lifson → Brian Siegel → Private Investor 2. Borderline NM (and oversized): Lew Lipset → Mastro → Barry Halper → Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown 3. EX+ or slightly better (with strong corners): Richard Gelman → Corey Shanus 4. PSA EX 5: Leland’s → Mastro → Scott Ireland 5. PSA EX 5 MC (“jumbo”-sized): Mastro → John Rogers 6. EX: Mastro → Dr. Robert Goode → Mark Macrae 7. EX: Larry Fritsch 8. VG-EX 4: The Dreier Collection 9. EX appearance (but adhered to an album page): Jefferson Burdick → Metropolitan Museum of Art. |
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Tom, get your hands on a copy of The Card.That will give you enlightenment to the background in this case.I just got it from a friend and after reading it,it changed how i look at this hobby.
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all i can say is wow and what is psa going to do? refund the money these people spent on the wagner? so its a a psa auth because it has been altered.
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the book the card shed alot of light on the t206 wagner and was a great read
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