Leon- this is the only style Miner's Extra I have ever seen (and I have only seen 5 or 6 of them at that). However, dating the pack is particularly troublesome as the tax stamps do not bear dates or overprinting. I actually have two of them - the one pictured and one that is just a tad nicer. I bought them 10 years apart, and both are the same (ie, no definitive date).

Jon...............
 

............beautiful Miner's Extra pack. In that you have two of them, do we feel a "you-tube public pack opening," coming on? All the best,

Michael

Michael - Nope... never had the desire :-) I'll leave that to someone else!

People have posted some incredible stuff here. I just scanned my pack collection, such as it is.
JimB

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9...baccopacks.jpg

Jim - that's a great looking Victory pouch.

Very nice packs, Jim. Anyone ready for a Sunday smoke?

So now that its over I guess we can talk about it:
packs
I know i saw a broadleaf, hindu, drum, american beauty, cycle and some other cool ones. Thoughts?

Beautiful lot which appeared to have the only correct 10-count Drum I have ever seen. In addition, it had the only period Red Sun I have ever seen, although it was partially obscured in the picture.

Unfortunately only the outer shells, but a neat collection nonetheless!

jon c
 

i was sure hoping that you'd be the winner of this one, ole buddy!!

all the best,
barry

Thanks Barry but not I. I do hope the winner is a board member as I'd love to see scans of some of the lot.

<a href="http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/companion%20pieces/T%20Cards/T214%20Victory/?action=view&amp;current=victory.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/companion%20pieces/T%20Cards/T214%20Victory/victory.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/companion%20pieces/T%20Cards/T214%20Victory/?action=view&amp;current=victorypapers.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/companion%20pieces/T%20Cards/T214%20Victory/victorypapers.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/companion%20pieces/T%20Cards/T214%20Victory/?action=view&amp;current=victorypapersback.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/rman444/companion%20pieces/T%20Cards/T214%20Victory/victorypapersback.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Richard,
Amazing Victory collection!
JimB

T card era cigarette packs
 

Now that most of us have posted pictures of their packs, I would like to see how many have the right stuff. Do you have a pack that has the right info?

For example: My Old Mill box has Factory 25 2nd District Virginia with overprinting of June 12, 1911 for the date. According to Robert Forbes book of American Tobacco cards T16, T42, and T80 had Old Mill backs. But they were either made in a different year, or had different factories. So without a doubt, this pack had a T206 card in it when distributed.

If you need help, post your info and I'll check to see if any non sports cards were made with your info.

rdwyer
 

By the Summer of 1911, American Lithographic (ALC) was printing their Gold-Bordered cards (T42-Birds, T80-Military Series, and T205-BB, etc.) The last production runs
of T206 cards were in the Spring of 1911. We have ALC documentation to this effect. In March 1911, ALC was intermixing their dwindling stock of T206 cards with T80
cards in UZIT packs.
Therefore, I would guess that your OLD MILL pack contained T42 cards or T80 cards. These two non-sports series were inserted in OLD MILL packs at the Richmond, VA
plant (Factory #25). Incidently, the T80's with an OLD MILL back are very tough to find.
And, your pack certainly did not contain T205's, as T205's were not printed with OLD MILL backs


<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/alenoxuzitmilitaryseries.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bt80uscaptainturkcommander.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


TED Z

T card era cigarette packs
 

Tedzan:

Unable to scan pages from Robert Forbes book. But it states that "T42's were printed late 1910 and early 1911". T80's "were probably issued around 1910-11". Also T80's with the Old Mill back were unnumbered.

If you have further info, I would like to see it.

rdwyer
 

It's my understanding that the White-bordered T42 cards were issued in 1910. Then American Litho. (ALC) followed with
their Gold-bordered version of the T42 cards in 1911, of which OLD MILL was one of the T-brand backs.

The T80 cards are not a 1910 issue. Two ALC letters, dated Feb 16, 1911 and Mar 18, 1911, specifying that a T80 card
and a T206 card were to be inserted in each LENOX, TOLSTOI, and UZIT packs containing 10 cigarettes each. All three
of these cigarette brands were produced in Factory #30 (NYC). The other two brands associated with T80's are CAIRO
MONOPOL and OLD MILL. However, T80's with these two backs are very scarce and it is fair to conclude that very few
T80's were also inserted in these packs.

Considering the date (June 12, 1911) on your OLD MILL pack, my guess is that it most likely contained two T42 cards.

Pardon me, if you already knoww all this stuff. But, I really do not think T206 cards were found in OLD MILL packs in the
Summer of 1911. By then, T206's were history....ALC was busy cranking out their new cards such as T201's, T205's, etc.


TED Z

Bumping this old thread, but wanted to share a neat little "find" that I know at least a few on this board are aware of (and a big thanks to Alan for pointing them out). A gentleman on the non-sports forum had purchased a collection of flattened and trimmed turn of the century cigarette packs a few years back I believe (at least I do not believe it is a recent purchase). His collection contained many amazing flattened and trimmed packs, but also yielded two really exciting items. The first is a Red Sun flattened pack. This Red Sun pack pre-dates the card issue by a few years (as the brand was still owned by Butler and Butler), but it's one of only 2 Red Sun packs I've ever seen. In fact, the first one I have ever seen was just 2 months ago.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...eld/RedSun.jpg

The second pack is much more interesting in my book. Below is the first image of what I consider a "true" T206 style Hindu pack. As many on here have seen before, Hindu advertised the release of baseball cards in newspapers in 1909 (see an example below). Depicted in these ads was a drawn representation of the cigarette pack which supposedly yielded the cards. However, this exact style of pack had never been seen before. Curiously enough, a different style of Hindu pack had been discovered, but had different graphics and was a more elongated style. These elongated packs are extremely rare in their own right. Until recently, I had only known of 1 of these, but since have heard of 2 more. Anyways, I thought some others on here would enjoy finally seeing a Hindu pack in full color.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ield/hindu.gif

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ld/HinduAd.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...eld/Hindu2.jpg
(please note this Hindu pack is NOT mine).

Jon, thanks for bumping this thread and sharing even more packs. This is still one of my most favorite threads, so much great information here. That Hindu cig newspaper ad is very cool. New Orleans newspaper I see.
Thanks again.

Wow !
 

Jon,

Thanks so much for sharing the info on both packs ! Nice to finally see both.... Out of curiosity, did the other Red Sun pack you saw a few months back look like the one you just posted ? (what was the date on it ?)

Thanks, Jeremy

Jeremy - I have a TINY scan of it which I can post tomorrow (unfortunately on a different computer). I recall it being slightly different than the one I post above, although it does not exactly match the graphics of the remake. The above pack is from around 1906-07. Not sure when the other pack dates from.

Hindu
 

Congrats, Jon, and thanks for posting. That Hindu pack is fantastic! Are you the owner of the Hindu pack with the Elephant?

Jeremy - here is the best I could do with the other Red Sun pack. It was part of a large lot and I was not able to secure a scan of the individual pack. However, it can clearly be seen. This was the first time I had ever seen one. Below are the two scans side by side. It's interesting how different the graphics are (and how they changed over such a relatively short period of time). Both packs are, without question, the same Red Sun brand that produced T211s. My guess, however, is that the more colorful pack probably dates to the 1910-1915 era, while the less colorful pack is 1906-07 (pre-ATC acquisition). After Butler was acquired by ATC, Red Sun production would have been shifted to New Orleans. It's interesting to note that the colorful Red Sun pack actually states this on the side - just like the pack of T211s.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...d/RedSun-1.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...eld/RedSun.jpg

The Red Suns and Hindu stuff is awesome!! Thanks for sharing the images.
JimB

I Actually Found a Dogs Head.
 

Hi -

I wanted to add my new acquistion to this thread - I now own one cigarette pack -and excited to say it's a Dogs Head. I'm going to put some photos below.

While the only value I know is from Jon C's awesome sight - I am most excited about it's level of scarcity. Of course as someone else in this thread "lamented" about an L1 leather, etc., now I need to find and buy a Dogs head card to pair with it. Ugh, such problems.

In case the photo isn't clear - the overstamp does say Aug. 1 1889 -Cerebus, Leon, Jon C et al - really interesting and beautiful stuff. Thanks for making this a real informative thread - and to whomever posted the links - I'm off to read them.

Are any t206 packs missing from this thread?

Looks like a first for this thread, thus the bump.<a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/my%20collection/?action=view&amp;current=ddss2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/my%20collection/ddss2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/my%20collection/?action=view&amp;current=ddss1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/my%20collection/ddss1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>