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Thanks Mike. I do understand that's what's going on, but when I went to the REA site to read the I-Team news there was an article about Salvatore Argo being busted for trafficking counterfeits. This got me thinking about the other frauds that are going on in the hobby, which seems to be memorabilia that is not authentic being sold as authentic.

Sincerely,Clayton

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 835132)

Poor Bill. It will really kill him to watch his stuff being sold while he is unable to work the computer and place bids on his lots. Oh well, luckily Doug is still there.

I don't like to use this jargon much, but ROTFLMFAO!!!!!
My goodness, thank you Jeff. That did provide some much-needed jovialityness to my day.

I was thinking along those same lines when I read the original post, something along the lines of an addition to this excerpt:

"Bidding is scheduled to begin on Monday, November 22nd..."

Shill bidding will begin shortly thereafter.
:D:D:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 835385)

So the alternative is that the laws of our country should not be applied to Bill Mastro and Doug Allen because such an application will cost all of us money? Apparently you and some other Net 54 members believe that. I don't. I'd rather live in a country where the laws are applied equally to all. If that means I'll lose some money, well, I'll be pointing a finger not at the federal government who is enforcing those laws but at the people who violated the laws. And take this from someone who earns a living fighting the government.

calvindog----I did not think I was coming across as if the laws of our land should not be applied to someone who is prominent or wealthy. Perish the thought.

In the first place many of you speak as if Mr. Mastro has already been found guilty of every single accusation. I'd rather live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. Then again, all you have to do is say, "OJ". I also believe Bruno Richard Hauptmann was innocent, and our country's judicial system just wanted a culprit. Still, tarring and feathering Bill and Doug verbally based on what the FBI is investigating them for with the understanding a la innuendo that any and all levels of questionable activity must of a certainty have been duly conducted with a system as thorough and far-reaching as the Mafia is reckless. When the findings come out, then I'm sure the leather-lunged will belt it out. (EXCEPT ME; I'M GETTING TI-RED OF THIS. ONE OR TWO OF YOU ARE PROBABLY FEELING THE SAME WAY ABOUT ME!)

Furthermore, WHILE I IN NO WAY CAN SPEAK FOR EVERYONE WHO WON AN ITEM IN A MASTRO AUCTION, during the course of the years that I participated in a Mastro Auction, and won several items, never did I get the impression that I overpaid. In some instances, I almost won them cheaply. I can think of several choice pieces that I gave up on, only to truly regret not bidding higher, as the items have since skyrocketed.

However, I must admit that I never put in an up to or ceiling bid. Why? I have never trusted that strategy of winning an item. It would be too easy for someone at the auction house to shill. Now cal, that is my own philosophy of bidding for any item, from EVERY auction house. I will gladly give up a great night's sleep to keep on top of the auction action.

If charges of fraud are made and proven, yes, we'll have to 'pick up the pieces' as you say but perhaps it will be a first step in ridding our hobby of the rampant fraud which infects it. Imagine a hobby where you know that when a lot sells in an auction it really sold for that price, that you weren't defrauded along the way.

----Calvindog, you speak as if most of the items were cranked due to shilling. Granted, by all means, I agree with you in the respect that you should only pay what was fairly bid. I feel the buyer's premiums have gotten too high, but that's an industry issue. Imagine a Net 54 where people with financial interests tied to wrongdoers won't contort themselves in all kinds of positions in an effort to divert and stifle criticism of the wrongdoers. Cal-----just so you know, in the small chance you should care, I only have one minor item consigned to Legendary's November auction. I can. And at least until I'm banned from here I'll keep speaking out about these issues.

The major issue that I am concerned with is the doctoring of cards. Though I do not collect uniforms, the finding by the Baseball Hall of Fame that the uniform of Joe Jackson was a fake was pretty interesting. I think with the value of these sports artifacts at a salty level on par with the Dead Sea, the temptation for fraud of various sorts arises within all kinds of con artists.

We shall see but we shall see. Thanks to Leon's reassurance, we can all continue to rant and even praise in freedom. Thanks for your perspective, calvindog. I sincerely admire and appreciate a good watchdog. If I have the wrong idea, I do want to be set straight. ---Brian Powell

If that's the case, then lets forget all about Felix the Cat. Afterall, when was the last time he saved an industry? Jeff, I really do think that this little guy is more appropriate for you:

Attachment 24737

"Here I come to save the day!"

As far as the damage to the card market presumed from the fallout of the FBI investigation, I am with Jeff on this: if that is the price of cleaning house and deterring further misadventures, so be it. I am a collector--I don't plan to sell my cards so whether the cards are 'worth' any specific price is meaningless to me; it is just theoretical, like appreciation on my house. Besides, if prices drop markedly I can buy more cards. :D

Price drop = calamity = investor

Price drop = opportunity to pick up more stuff = collector

Adam, exactly. Which is why you won't be found twisting yourself into a pretzel with 'logic' trying to support the Mastros of this world, solely to protect either your investment, your possible future income, your potential job opportunity, or your good friends who have always been nice to you while they rob you blind.

It's not hard to pick out the people with the transparent agendas; just follow the dollars.

one trick ponies

If I have heard it from one board member I have heard it from a hundred.......So many one trick ponies on this board, especially lawyers from NY :p. I hope they enjoy the hobby as much as I do. Giddy up....

I'd rather be an honest pony than a Mastro monkey any day. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 835830)

I'd rather be an honest pony than a Mastro monkey any day. :)

I've been called worse by better people.

The only problem I have with what Jeff is saying in this thread is that perhaps he is painting with too broad a brush in casting dispersions on a nameless few. Honestly, I think only a handful of people who read or lurk on this board have a vested or personal interest in what Legendary/Mastro does. Those who do though, should be taken behind the wood shed :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 835833)

I've been called worse by better people.

I agree.

I sure do wish I could get Roseanne Roseanadanna's take on all this. I'm sure she could clear it all up with just a few short and insightful comments. Is it too late to send condolences to her family?

It's always something!

OK, time for me to chime in on things, not that it matters....

I don't know Mr. Mastro, probably never will. If he broke the law, that is a decision he made personally and he should suffer the consequences.

Is it sad to me that he is selling his collection. No. Collections are always being sold , that is how we, as collectors acquire new items. It is an ever evolving circle. It is life, when we have wealth and health, we buy things. When we don't have those things, we sell.

To me the only times it is sad is a) selling because you are preparing your estate as your time is coming. or b) some greedy bitch is taking her half of something she doesn't care a damn thing about and just wants money!!

Now i don't understand why this thread has turned into hostility, i didn't read any posts that suggested attacks should be made and it turning personal. 1 of the two should just be the bigger man and not comment further, then the problem is solved. Or keep poking each other if you are enjoying it!

But its not making for good reading.