zing!!!

I know. I am caught in the middle. Crushed by the thought of Bruce's disdain and yet, anxious to know who the competition is!

Well then, Rob. I apologize. And to you, also, Joe. Truly.

Sometimes I read the acknowledgments and credits in the fronts of books and stuff. I just looked in the Standard Catalog to see if Mr. Haber was listed there, but he's not. Even though some of what's in there could be traced back to him.

I doubt that I'm the only one here who's heard of Mr. Haber. Minimally, Mr. Lipset looks here on occasion, I'm certain he knew Mr. Haber. And I'd think a few others here do.

As for Mr. Berger, I never met, nor corresponded with, nor talked on the phone with him. I've heard of him. Here's a link about old times that mentions him, and Mr. Haber.... http://www.oldbaseball.com/refs/lerner/irv_lerner.htm

And whenever I dig down to a Baseball Encyclopedia, I'll scan the credits to show Bill Haber's name, there's no way they've not credited him.

As for the top 10 list, I'd think bubbling under there is Scot Reader, Ted Z, and Mr. Masson. The three know a right smart about old cards, they're collectors, and they share their knowledge.

I remember when the Sports Collectors Store auctioned Bill Haber's collection via an insert in SCD. The two lots that come to mind are a complete T210 set and a virtually complete (missing a card or two) E107 set. Both were won by the same collector.

thanks for the info guys. As a newbie collector it is nice to learn about the history of the hobby!

One of my regrets in the hobby
 

Was not being able to meet Mr. Haber. I was visiting Topps for Beckett in 1995 (Sort of an ex-officio visit as I was visiting my dad and took a day to go to the city, etc). I got a great tour from Marty Appel and we passed by Bill Haber's office only to be told that he was sick or out of the office on that day. A scant four months later, Mr. Haber was gone.

I still remember that visit and my instinctive feeling of realizing when he was not in the office, I would never get to visit with him

Regards
Rich

Has anyone mentioned Woody Gelman yet....he contributed to the hobby a great deal both on the sports and non-sports front.

Joshua

Hard to limit it to ten!
 

These are simply great names and the list goes on and on and I'd include Woody Gelman and I'd say Charlie Brookes contributed a great deal in the 60's, and he was instrumental in getting my generation involved!
Well, this list has sparked great conversations and a list of names that are fantastic! Thank you Bruce for starting this great thread!

I was pleased to see the name Gar Miller mentioned earlier. When I first started collecting older cards, he was always very courteous and helpful, even though I was a neophyte. I remember how cool it felt to be corresponding and trading with an advanced collector, especially one who dealt fairly and honestly, and often gave bonus discounts because I was new. I have tried to follow his lead whenever I can to help newer collectors.

Ah, of course..........Gar Miller! How could I forget him, one of the all-time best. A true gentleman who still deals in cards...

Lovely Day...

When I first started back in the hobby in the late '80s, I used to send Gar checks for $20 and he would send back whatever he thought fair for the $20. When he found out I was collecting the '53 Bowman Black and White set, he sent me all the Tigers (tougher for some reason) and the Stengel for my little check. Gar is still a class act and still sells. A great hobby person.

Bill -- glad to see you are still with us -- continue to battle that Big C

And I heard at the National that Charlie is now in a nursing home.


Regards
Rich

For Exhibit collectors, Woody Scharf has to be mentioned. Woody Scharf wrote the seminal articles on Exhibit baseball cards in The Trader Speaks in December 1979-January 1980-February 1980. Many old collectors still use his set numbering nomenclature. Mr. Scharf was kind enough to correspond with me and share some of his notes back in the old VCBC days when I started advertising for info on the cards and writing articles on a few sets.

+1

Haber and Woody Scharf
 

Gentlemen:

I had the privilege of knowing both Bill Haber and Elwood Scharf. I visited Bill's home in Brooklyn and Staten Island numerous times.

I would always see Woody and his wife who I called "Auntie" at the early 70's shows and visited his home a few times as well. I still have many of his handwritten checklists. I remember his happiness when he "discovered" the Averill card in the Salutations set. He had never seen one before, so you know how tough it must be.

Bill's main job at Topps was writing the backs of the cards. In fact Bill desperately wanted to move out of NYC and decided to move to WI. Bill hoped it would help his asthma and I think he also really wanted to be near Larry F.

When he was moving he offered his job to me. I visited Topps and was interviewed by Sy Berger. At the time I was living in "bucolic" NJ working for Bill Mastro's father. I was not a fan of the location of Topps offices in Brooklyn, and when Bill told me he had two batteries stolen out of his car when he parked it at work, I knew the job was not for me. As it turned out Bill kept his job and wrote the cards from WI. but his wife got home sick and didn't like cows she said, so they moved back and settled in Staten Island.

A memory just returned to me recently when I saw the Current All Stars of Roberts Konstanty and Stanky in the recent Legendary Auction. Those cards originated with Bill.

He was known to go hot and heavy for the set he was collecting at the time. Talk about tunnel vision! I recall his quest for Seattle Popcorn cards most vividly. But usually once he completed a set like that he would sell it and start on the next project. I digress.

He started working on a T200 set and I had about 12 nice ones. At the time I didn't collect T cards as much as Topps. I LOVED oddball Topps, test sets, etc. I could never get his 3 1960 Topps cards of Hadley, F. Thronberry, and Cimoli with the different team logos that were changed once they were traded.

But when I turned up the T200's he asked me what I wanted. I told him the 3 Currents I lacked for my set. He said he didn't have them. I told him he know where he could get them. Meaning the Topps files. I had seen them while doing research for Woody Gelman and Rich Egan for what was to be a new Standard Catalog that never came to fruition.

For those of you who don't know, Topps kept two of each card they printed and GLUED them onto plain paper, front and back, side by side.

In a week or two I got a call from Bill saying to come on over he had the Current All Stars for me. He "liberated" them form the files I guess. Bill Mastro and I drove over to Staten Island and Bill H. showed me Roberts, Konstanty and Stanky with glue on the front. He offered them to me for the T200's. I told him I wanted the ones with glue on the back. He said, sorry he promised them to Larry F. For what, I had no idea. After hours of haggling I told Bill Mastro, "lets go" and we headed down the stairs. All the way down Mastro is whispering to me " are you crazy!! You can't walk away from those cards!!" I said, just wait.......

As we hit the bottom step Haber said "OK Fred you win come back up". That's how I got the three cards that were in the recent auction. I took the Stanky with glue on the front because it was in better shape than the other.

They later ended up with Halper when he bought my collection in 1975 (UGH!! a few years too early!!). I recall him telling me he traded them for some Yankee W.S. rings. What happened to them from there I don't know. But they were always my favorite cards even after I completed T206 and lots of other sets. Who won them from the Legendary auction? Anyone here??

AH, memories........ Sorry to bore you all

Fred-What a great story. I'm sure no one here was bored with that. On the contrary, most of us love to hear hobby history.

Thanks and keep the stories coming---Jay

Fred,

Great, great stuff! It's so enjoyable to read first-person accounts like yours.

Hardly boring, I love hearing these old stories.

Fred,

That's what these threads are all about. Thanks for the story. Perfect timin as we just watched those babies sell at great prices.

Do you ever regret not taking that job at Topps?

Thanks,

Tom

I concur, what a fascinating first person account. Thanks for sharing it with the board.

Jeff

Thank you, Fred.

My recollection is that Mr. Haber completed all of the Seattle Popcorn cards. He was driven by getting an image of every player on a card. Thanks for posting.

Wow! Joshua took me back to my favorite years of collecting. I would mail Gar Miller a check for whatever I could afford at the time, usually $20-35 and my updated want lists of T205s and T206s. I about 10-14 days back a package would come with cards.

We did that for years and later moved on to complete 1948-55 Bowman football sets. That would have been 1984-89 I think.

I called him about 6 or 7 years ago and he could not have been nicer. I wish I had renewed the tradition then!

Hi Tom:

It was a combination of me not liking Brooklyn and not wanting to commute from Jersey. Once Bill was able to keep his job and move to WI. it worked out the best for all. But I have to admit ever once in awhile I wonder what if.......

Good point. I can certainly think of at least one or two that have superb collections ... but it's not my place to say.

A superb collection, by itself, does not make an important collector... a collector's contributions to the hobby is the primary factor. Being a collector is a qualification, but not the end all of the matter. Maybe they contribute information to others, or use an assumed name... that would get them there. But a great collection alone isn't enough.

I agree. I would rank someone with no collection, but who is willing to impart hobby knowledge to others, over someone with a fabulous collection who is not.

as stated before
 

As stated before, there really are 2 different questions posted. The first one being about "whos is biggest/best?" and the second one being "who has helped the hobby the most?" One is not necessarily dependant on the other. I could also include a past and present tense of both questions. I would like to think many on this board help the hobby in many ways today. And I am sure that there are some of the best collections by members, or lurkers, too.

top 10 hard to do
 

I think there are many of us who have very nice collections who remain quiet about it. It is not that we do not want to discuss it, but we do not get pleasure from seeing our sets on registries or care about grading companies' awards. I would guess many quality private collectors are completely unknown on boards. Of course those who have the best wagners or the grade 10 52 mantles are known. I first joined this board recenty but have been collecting high quality pre-war, mostly 19th century for years. I enjoy the board but do not care if PSA knows me.

I do not denigrate the lists here or say those mentioned are publicity seekers but point out that many of us are not in it to top other collectors or get recognition.

Delray,

Absolutley a great point. A somewhat related saying "Those who say the least are usually those you should listen most to".

Completely understandable that it's not a contest, but not sharing with the comnmunity seems a bit selfish. 99.9% of board members here (IMO) would love to see stuff they have never seen before. If collectors can't enjoy other's cards, mem., etc. then really what is the point? Why do you think there is a monthly pick up thread? It's so others of the same ilk can see the great items in the hobby. Secretive and cloistered collections only serve their masters and that's just self serving. If you are worried about theft or other concerns, just don't list your name or address. Too many lurkers/takers and not enough givers (info, scans or opinions for that matter). As an example, I asked a question about Old Judges awhile back and got no responses. I think they were reasonable questions but as I have heard, the big collectors don't like to impart info or even show their rarities. Why is that? Seems a tad childish doesn't it? Take it for what it's worth, just my opinion.

My visit with George Moll....a true Sportscard Hobby pioneer
 

DITTO....to what Frank W said in post #125.


TED Z

Of course you're entitled to your view, but I have to respectfully disagree.

I collect for my personal enjoyment. Yes, if in the process I can share my knowledge with others, all the better. But I don't think that is a prerequisite to a person being passionate about collecting, or to there being a "point" to the collection. I know a number of people with substantial collections. Most of them collect under the radar. They do that not to be secretive. Without exception, all of them I think would go out of their way to offer assistance if anybody should come to them with a question. But they are modest people who would regard constantly showing what they have to be a form of bragging. Maybe others would not see it as such, but they would. In addition, to some of them it's not so easy to post scans. To those of us who grew up in a different technological era, taking and displaying quality digital photographs is not a common-place activity. For me personally, I do not even own a digital camera. All my images are on transparencies, which many scanners cannot scan.

So while I have no issue with encouraging people to impart knowledge for the good of the hobby, I don't think it appropriate that the passionate private collector who collects neither for investment nor ego, but simply for pure unbridled enthusiasm for what he/she collects, should be denigrated.

I kinda agree with Corey, but I see a different distinction...

A collector with a great collection who keeps to himself, that is fine with me. I actually well understand that. But that collector is not as important to the hobby as one who is knowledgeable and who shares his depth of knowledge and experience with other collectors, even if he has a more modest collection himself. The former's collection may be more important, but the latter collector is more important to the hobby.

agreed
 

Nicely put. However, I don't think having a great collection would exclude someone from helping the hobby either (not that you were saying that, Frank). Merely posting some views and info on chatboards is giving back a little bit, in it's own right.
Type-collecting does allow me to be part of many conversations, which is fun. I am a glory hog :).

Tony-Pick up a copy of the Old Judge book. I think you'll find that most of your Old Judge questions will be answered in there.

The Choice Is Yours
 

Whilst we were the individual who began this post, our intent was not to force those collectors who collect "under the radar" to reveal what they have. Everyone of the 30 individuals who we named appears in a table top book- ie. The Smithsonian Guide, Ken Burns book, National Pastime, and/or others or in long forgotten hobby publications.

From time to time we mention an item that we have acquired. We have shared less than 2% of the really rare and unique items in our collection. Whilst we comment frequently, everyone has a right to manage his/her own time and one's collection. A collector or a collection is no less important in stature if the only one who ever sees it is the collector himself.

We agree with Corey, that the collection gives extraordinary pleasure, and we much its company than that of the vast majority of talking heads who
paths have crossed ours.

As a final point, we are in regular correspondence with at least five collectors, only one of whom was mentioned among the 30 names we posted,
who possess $3M+ collections of extraordinary and super rare baseball cards.

In fact, we had a big laugh when a recent major auction noted that a certain item was the only one known, and another collector and ourself had a better example.

It was never our intent to ask anyone to share what he/she does not want to share. One of the joys of great financial success is that you can buy privacy. And we can not think of any thing as valuable as the right to come and go as one pleases, and the shut the world out whenever one wants to.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

Even as one who doesn't have a collection of extraordinary and super rare baseball cards, at least once or maybe twice a year I'll read an auction house's description of an item (usually a piece of memorabilia) that's "the only one known," and there will be an example in my collection. Granted, the auction houses cover themselves by using the word known, but that phrase still gets thrown around more than it should.

As an example, I asked a question about Old Judges awhile back and got no responses. I think they were reasonable questions but as I have heard, the big collectors don't like to impart info or even show their rarities. Why is that? Seems a tad childish doesn't it? Take it for what it's worth, just my opinion.

Seems there was this book published not long ago....

I don't think that's at all true. Can you show the post where you asked an Old Judge question and it went unanswered?

would that be considered normal or slightly askew

We receive so much pleasure tooting our own horn that someday we may actually be the band.

One can only hope you make this choice to go and shut the world out soon. :p

Sorry guys. That was too easy to pass-up.

First of all, I must say I find this thread fascinating. While I have been collected cards off and on for over 30 years, and tried to read publications on the topic, I am still unfamiliar with a large number of the names in this thread. So I appreciate the history lesson I'm getting in exchange for my time reading this thread.

I must say that I find the personal attacks disappointing and distracting from the topic. FWIW, I do find Bruce's plural references to himself as more than a little odd but to each his own :)

Also, I'm seeing multiple references to a book on the Old Judge set. Can someone link me to that book? I did an Amazon search but came up empty - just a link to the Barry Halper collection book, the one on the fake Honus Wagner, and a bunch of auction books.

Kind regards,

Tabe

I saw this one currently listed on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Photographic-Bas...item4cf190d1b2

Tabe,

Net54 wouldn't be Net54 without the personal attacks. It's in the DNA! Plus, Bruce has brought some of that on himself. But to his credit he has mellowed-out a bit through the years and everybody says he is a nice guy in person..........I always look forward to his post(s).

Here are a few old threads referencing the Old Judge book and how to order one. Happy browsing.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...Richard+Masson

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...Richard+Masson

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...Richard+Masson

Lovely Day...

Bruce is a nice guy. He just gets a little nutty behind the computer. But lately he has been a model citizen.:)

Thank you for that. The book looks fantastic!

Tabe

Tabe,

Welcome to the board.

I suggest you not be so quick at siding with Bruce and against his "attackers." Bruce's use of first person plural is the least of his personality oddities. Hang around and you'll see. (Although, as Barry said, he's been on his best behavior lately. I haven't received an email wishing me death, in weeks!)

Buy the OJ book. It is the most comprehensive coverage of a single card set I have ever seen.

E mails to Jim VB
 

We would like to see a copy on a 2010 e-mail that specifically threatened us to arrange to kill you- at a specific time and venue

You enjoy attacking because you are far more proficient at bathroom humor
than you are at collecting or researching baseball memorabilia.

Perhaps, you could make better use of your time--like flipping burgers or tacos- minimum wage sounds appropriate for your skills and intelligence

As we have said for several years. each time you fire an arrow we will return the favor with a missile.

Thank you.

You're mistaken if you thought I was taking Bruce's side. My comment was a general one.

It's on the list. Definitely need to pick it up - and I'm not even a fan of the sets :)

Now if only somebody would do something similar for T-3...

Tabe