Like I said and like Barry said
 

It *IS* a basic right to know WHOM is attacking you for any reason. If I get flamed for any reason on this board and I don't know who is doing that; I want to know why.

Joe P, now resting; always wanted to topic to be cards only; no side shows. I, on the other hand, always enjoyed the diversions. Those frankly are part of life as well

So, to reiterate. If you want to stay unknown and post on a subject such as -- please make me recommendations on baseball books to read; then go right ahead

If you want to stay unknown and post on a subject such as;.... BCCG Sucks; PSA is terrible; SGC is worthless, The Standard Catalog is horsebleep because nothing past 2000 is in print in that book;... well guess what -- those words should have a NAME next to them. I know from my days at Beckett, we always respected those people willing to put their names to their opinions. And, when they had specific issues, we always listened.

There are boards such as the PSA boards where people are only known by their SN's. And Bobby of VCP got hammered a few months ago over something I suspect he had no control over plus the person bitching never mentioned his name on the board. Sorry folks; you got a complaint; put your name to it

Regards
Rich

Great post, whoever you are.:)

This doesn't explain what you plan on doing when you get someone's info. So you get your feelings hurt, or worse, and now you know their name. Now what. You just look at it, or do you plan on some sort of retaliation?

get over it
 

Sportscardtheory- Just get over it. You are going to be held accountable on this board and your name will be given out, at minimum privately if not publicly, if you do one of the things that has been talked about warranting it. One other reason that this is a good rule is that someone blasting xyz company or xyz person could have some other hidden agenda....such as they are an employee for another company and are blasting the competition or a myriad of other situations. The new registration process makes it where no anonymity is allowed and privacy is given to those that don't get into arguments or heated debates etc......As has been said numerous times, when you have to put your name out there then you sometimes will act a bit differently, which is a good thing in my book. This is not personal at all. Same rules for everyone. Anyone want to know my name, no problem.

The thread is specifically about anonymity on the board, and that is what I am discussing... sorry.

Generally speaking, people tend to be a little more careful about what they say, and how they say it, when their identity may be known. This is a good thing, for the general mood of a hobby message board. They are usually more willing to say crazy things if they are unknown.

Also, communicating through message boards removes all tone from the conversation.

This combination of saying crazy things and lack of tone can be a dangerous combination.


On the other hand, I fully understand people wanting to be anonymous for reasons related to their jobs, careers, or families. Although most regular board members know my name, I choose not to use my full name in my posts, for that reason.

With an open board of this size (close to 2000 registered members) you have to walk that fine line. Just remember that if you let yourself get dragged into one of these catfights, and you say stupid stuff, people have the right (according to this board's rules) to find out who you are.

I'll tell you why its important to me, Sportscardtheory.

If I read a post from someone and I don't know their name, and they're just posting about cards, its no big deal. Ask a question, make a comment, post a scan, it's all good. Nice to have you as part of the community.

But if I read a post from someone making an inflammatory remark, or getting involved in a debate about auction houses, specific sellers, a bad transaction, grading companies, or whatever, I want to know who it is that's making the post. If that person isn't willing to disclose their name, I assume automatically that they're hiding. Maybe it's an employee of one auction house, criticizing another. Maybe its a collector who had a bad experience with one grading company, and now they're making anonymous, negative comments because they have an axe to grind. Maybe it's someone who doesn't get along with a particular collector, taking potshots at him because of a personal dislike.

And sure, maybe it's a perfectly honest criticism.

But we've seen so many times on message boards where the person posting controversial comments in an anonymous way is actually someone with a hidden agenda. On the hobby message boards, I've seen competitors arguing with each other, both using anonymous IDs. I've seen guys who are known consignors to auction house A, criticizing auction house B. I've seen guys making anonymous posts on a message board, hyping a card on eBay, where it turns out that they're the owner of the card - or criticizing a card on eBay, when they turn out to be the winning bidder. We've even seen guys who are in legal disputes with companies in the hobby, anonymously criticizing the person they're in the dispute with - or trying to clear their own name, pretending to be someone else, giving a testimonial.

If I'm going to read someone's opinion on a controversial topic, WHO is writing it is almost as important as WHAT they're writing.

-Al

If someone is in a heated discussion and not doing any of the things you have stated, then I see that this is where the line is hazy. This thing started with someone, who I hadn't even had any kind of inflammatory discussion with, calling out for my name to be publicly displayed for God knows why. I didn't say anything derogatory, nothing that would harm anyone or their business. Nothing but opinionated discussion on the topic at-hand with a few defensive posts at some posters who were being inflammatory themselves (I didn't ask for THEIR names to be exposed because I simply don't care, BTW). So I'll ask again, what would anyone do with my name when I was simply discussing the Joe Jackson T202 and someone didn't like my tone.

let me give another explanation
 

Well, I sort of thought this thread would get about 2-3 replies and go away. Everyone that has been on the board for any length of time (more than a yr) knows the protocol.

When we are having debates we like to "consider the source." When we don't know the source it is hard to make a determination on their judgement. This board is different than many, probably, as at least several hundred of us know each other personally. I have stayed at Teddy Z's house before and got to taste his lovely wife's lasagna. I got to stay with Barry Sloate for a weekend one time and met his lovely wife. For the last 10 yrs or so I have had a booth with my partner, Scott B, at the National. We have had 8 yrs (not this one) of Net54 Dinners at the National. So, maybe this is unlike other boards in that many of us know each other personally. We like to know who we are arguing with, and as stated many times, knowing that each and every person has to stand behind their comments makes this board a bit more real than some others where that is not the case. Hope this helps. regards

Sportscardtheory (if that's your real name)- let's look at it another way. If you insist on anonymity you've got it. The board rules allow this. But there's a small trade off, and that is you need to be very careful what you say and how you say it. I just reviewed a string of your posts on the Joe Jackson thread and they weren't that benign. I saw you get snippy with several veteran posters, among them Rhett Yeakley who is respected around here by everyone. So the bottom line is we do have some rules and you have to play by them. And that's how you earn your anonymity.

Since we're still talking about it, I have a question. Are you still considered anonymous when you only use your first name last initial, or when you only go by a screen name?

Clayton

sort of
 

Unless we know your real first and last name you are publicly anonymous. I would still give out your info, at least privately, when warranted.

You know why I got snippy with him. It's right there in the thread. He was editing my posts and displaying them out of context to make me look bad. I'm not one to let someone punch me in the face without defending myself. He didn't have to do that, but he chose to. I believe my tone in that thread was fine and I stand behind every word I typed. I went through and read every single post I made and I didn't see anything that would warrant any kind of "punishment" or metaphorical "public flogging". Many others were FAR more inflammatory than myself and no one said a word. Just because you all don't know me personally, doesn't mean I'm any less of a person. I deserve the same respect as someone with their full name displayed. I'm not going to keep posting in this thread, I don't want to step on any toes as I enjoy this site and just want to be left alone. Sorry to anyone who doesn't like my posts, they are not and were not meant to disrupt. Good day.

Thanks Leon.

Clayton

Well I'm not a moderator so I will defer to Leon to sort this all out.

just to be clear
 

Just to be clear no one edited your posts although they may have quoted you out of context. I don't know that for sure nor am I going back to sort it out. Only moderators have the ability to edit a post. The moderators on this board are Matt Wieder, Brian McQueen, Dan Bretta and myself. I can safely say that none of those guys have ever edited anything out of a post (except maybe profanity or possibly personal info). I do it on very rare occasions, and I mean very rare (I don't even remember a time but there could have been 1-2), or when there is profanity. If a post is edited it is automatically seen as an edit by whomever edited it. Us moderators all try to keep out of disputes as much as possible, unless we are the ones IN the dispute :). I really find it hard to believe there is this much discussion about this subject but I guess with so many new folks it makes sense. regards

How was I qouting you out of context within the exact thread that you made the statements that I was quoting? The fact that they were within that thread implies the context.

I really had no idea any of this was about our little spat on that thread. I did no editing in any way. All I did was click on your "name" then click on the "see all posts by user" and went down the list and copied some of your remarks, total time to do that...2 minutes between patients at work. You give me way too much credit if you think I would waste my time taking any statements by you (whoever you are) out of context.
-Rhett

This. This is exactly it.

Maybe I'm just crabby from being gone all week and a long travel day today, but I am honestly just so sick of newer or unknown people coming on this board and bitching about the way it is - things that have been done for years.

People say that new people don't want to post here because they will get bashed for lack of knowledge about cards. Honestly, I don't know if I can really think of that ever happening. But they might get bashed for coming on here and immediately splashing around with lack of knowledge of culture. Or worse, having the culture explained to them, they insist and demand it should be different.

There are a lot of us that have been around here for a long time. That doesn't make us better people or better collectors or whatever. But we have invested in this board and this culture - have dedicated time and emotion and relationships and thinking and every other damn thing so that it has a certain tone of civility and certain ways about it.

And it just grinds me to freaking sawdust that people who have invested next to nothing in this board and its culture want to call shots on how it should be. People like Chicago and others even more recently. Not all new people - Clayton, for example, has fit in here seamlessly from his first day - so definitely this is not painting a broad brush to all newer people.

I actually miss the rule of the old board where you had to put your full name ON YOUR POSTS for controversial posts and/or threads. It wasn't enough that Leon knew it and no one had to request it. Full name on your posts. Now that contributed to some self-moderation. [OK. sometimes self moderation :)] If you wanted to keep your name off the board, you had to shut your mouth on controversial posts. Simple as that. And it worked.

I'm just tired of people with little history here b1tching about this or that part of the culture and wanting it different, even after people - long term, decent, nice people that have CONTRIBUTED TO WHAT THIS BOARD WAS BUILT INTO - nicely explain to them the reason and history behind some of our idiosyncrasies.

Sorry for the rant. I must be just really worn out here. But this has been really bothering me for a very long time, and in my opinion has weakened the sense of community of this board.

J.oann K.line - see? That's how it's freaking done.

I don't see anyone "bitching" about it. Personally, I was just curious as to why some protocol is how it is. It's simple curiosity. No one is trying to harm you or this board. People seem to be so paranoid around here, has there been a lot of "moles" in the past trying to harm board members? Again, just curiosity.

SCT the quote above is EXACTLY why full disclosure is needed on this particular message board concerning specific types of posts. If you refrain from getting involved in any of these discussions you're free to remain anonymous, if you choose to participate we should know who you are.

You did. You demanded that Leon remove your name from the board after he posted it. You opted for the banning, albeit temporarily. You mentioned consulting an attorney, which Leon interpreted, rightly or wrongly, as a threat to sue.

Yet everyone who has been here for any period of time KNEW that your name could be published. (I believe it's in the rules.)

That constitutes "bitching" in my book.

Granted, since then you have been very conciliatory, and have tried to fit in. But for a period of time, you were unhappy with the rules governing this board. And they weren't new. You were.

I didn't know that's how it is until it happened. I'm certainly not bitching about it now that I know it's policy.

P.S. I never "demanded" anything. I asked.

can we stop kicking this dead horse please!!!!!!

Thanks Joann, I do appreciate that.

Sincerely,Clayton

Sportcardtheory- regarding your question do we have a history of "moles" coming on this board? Yes, we have had a number of instances where a new poster comes on and circumvents all the rules. Often it's someone with an aggressive personality, or an agenda against an auction house or grading company, and he will kind of take over the board. He doesn't see it as a long standing community, and uses it as a soapbox for his personal complaints.

So the board has become sensitive to new posters who come on like gangbusters. As we've said veteran posters will get cut a little more slack. All anybody asks is that we all follow the rules and exhibit a little decorum.

Well said, Barry Goat

signed: John Doe

I don't know who the hell half you people are and I have a hard time taking you seriously on account of it.

David McDonald
Honolulu, Hawaii

PS. Keys are under the mat, baseball cards are in the library, and there's a half-sack of beer in the fridge.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_.../Anonymous.jpg

Hmmm....what kind of beer?

Bill Cauley
Alexandria, VA

No beer, a little bit of gin left but no tonic, and I'm making popcorn soon.

nice! I will be right over (and will bring the other half-sack of beer).

Thanks David
 

I'll lay claim to the off-quality 1990's cards :)

I am not only a new board member but also a new collector of pre-war cards. I appreciate that alot of folks here have, before the internet age, gained a wealth of knowledge and insight that comes thru with their posts. There was a time, yes I remember, that you had to carefully research things without the help of Google! You had to really work hard to learn about cards that were made over 60+ years ago. Now, all I gotta do is log on and read!

I just wanted to say thanks to Leon for this great message board. And thanks to all the members here. This isn't a democracy, and if Leon seems fit to ask a few things from the members here, why would anyone question him? This costs me exactly no dollars a month, yet I am on here each and everyday for an hour of more. Easily my most favorite place to frequent on the web. And by far the cheapest thing I do all week.

So, in my mind, this is Leon's world..What he says goes.

As Lebowski would say, "The dude abides."

Kawika... you forgot to mention your two security guards.. Mr Smith and Mr Wesson!

The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners.

This was a VALUED rug.

Interesting thread. Count me in the group (which seems to be very few) that think people should remain anonymous.

I agree with the point that if you're in a heated discussion with someone and you find out their name, then what? Why do you need that info?

It also seems to me that if the mods give out people's private info, they could be liable if someone does go postal. Dumb policy if you ask me.

That being said, I don't have a problem with the board owner knowing who his "customers" are, and moderating the board accordingly. It makes no sense that the personal information needs to be shared beyond that.

What's funny though is that SCT has precipitated this discussion. He's been banned from several sites as a troll, including some alts. You'd think he'd be smart enough to realize that some people here are also on other boards. Guess not.

You are either a liar or just enjoy saying ignorant things. I haven't been banned from ANY sites and I have not ONE "alt" anywhere on any site. You fail.

I don't have a problem with exposing myself (unliteraly. I know Barry that's not a word). I really don't expect to get into any heated exchanges as I'm just a lurker trying not to look stupid.

However, I have decided that tomorrow I'm going to go to a plastic surgeon and have my face done to look exactly like Leon's so I can get my wife $16 haircuts. I'll be able to save enough money in no time for a T206
Wagner! :D

uh...ok
 

Uh...ok, so what does that mean? I haven't had to pay $16 for a haircut in years!! Someone would want to look like me:confused:? I am flattered :o.

I'll retract the statement since I obviously can't prove any of it.