If memory serves, Greg Bussineau pioneered the over the top descriptions back in the 90s. Some of them were really quite creative. Brian Drent has had some great ones too, including once describing a card as the "color of a Hawaiian sunset." I imagine those guys must be laughing at some of their own prose.

I'm partial to the descriptions in the Huggins and Scott catalogs :)

If you have something great, go ahead and say it's great. I would do the same. But so much of auction text is unnecessary and poorly written. Some of the descriptions I read make me cringe. But that's me.

I've always assumed bidders don't like to be talked down to, or treated as if they were buying a used car. If you are offering a piece with a great deal of history, explain the historical signifcance to your audience. It's extremely important and goes a long way in selling the item.

But when I see the hype that goes with slabbed cards I turn the page. Just give me a clear scan and the grade, and I can take it from there.

Possibly the Goodwin & Co. description -- one of the best in the business, you know -- mentioned that Pakfo hailed from Boyceville, Wis., a peaceful village of just more than 1,000 residents that is just a few scenic minutes northwest of Menomonie. That would be worth at least $500.

And I've heard that Goodwin & Co. --get this -- will take cards slated for future auctions to shows and let prospective bidders have a gander at them. Kind of whet their appetite, so to speak. I'm not sure whether anyone has thought to do that. Golly, that probably would add another $750 to the hammer price.

It's all about marketing and descriptions in the catalog. Oh yes, and Goodwin & Co.'s super-neato-keen Web site. $500.

I think the answer to the two 1952 Topps Pafko Black Back cards are evident if you look at the scans versus scans of the other PSA 5 in VCP.

Especially the PSA 5 that sold for $5,294. The centering is spot on and the corners look relatively clean. There is a 99% chance of the buyer of that card previewing the card in person and deciding there is a decent chance of cracking the card, fixing whatever problems are with the card and hoping to get it in a 7 holder and make $10,000 or more profit. If the card don't get into a 7, there is always a raw card customer who is getting a near mint example in his mind and there is profit to be made paying $5,294 if that is the case.

The Pafko that sold for $2,397 has superior centering as compared to scans of any of the other PSA 5's and the corners aren't shot either. There was probably an attempt to bump this card as well.

"...fixing whatever problems are with the card..."

So you are suggesting the card received a high price because the winning bidder plans to do a few alterations before resubmitting it?

That is the most sound reason for that particular card receiving the bids it received. Check the scan out

When card doctors compete, everyone wins.

Plow Candy Cobb PSA 4
 

Same exact card in each auction. One of the Mastro auction results was not realized because the card "wasn't paid for" and it was sold for less money. I guess the down economy still caused someone (or two) to suddenly decide that the card could be popped out and upgraded upon resubmission:

5/8/09 Goodwin $21,494.30
9/1/07 Mastro $14,383.20
4/27/07 Mastro $13,698.00
4/3/06 Mastro $12,773.40

Oh and in 2006-07 Mastro was certainly not shy about bidding up their cards in any manner possible.

Maybe Bill hyped Cobb's batting average.

Or used flowery language in the item description.

Goodwin Thread
 

What nobody seems to realize and, correct me if I've missed a related response, is that detailed descriptions are more important for the CONSIGNER, not the buyer. As a frequent consigner to many auction houses, I want the auction house to make my card(s) sound like holy grails, within reason of course. REA, Heritage, Goodwin and Mile High are the four best (Mastro was also great) at accomplishing this and those auctions will continue to receive my high end material for "taking care" of my lots. Their descriptions and marketing concepts are the best. While I am sure it is also advantageous for the buyers as so eloquently stated by Jim B., keep in mind without a continuous flow of high end consigments, EVERY auction house is out of business.

Joe T.

Yeah this is not a problem at all in the hobby.

Snip snip here, snip snip there, and a couple of tra la las....

Jeff on this thread http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...C494.30&page=3 (page 6) when you were going after Mastro you classified the first and last sales as "the most likely to be legit."

Greg

Yes, in that the consignor received payment not that fraud was not involved. I've previously posted that the Plows Candy Cobb "sales" numbers were ostenstibly ludicrous once the Goodwin number was included.

By the way, is it true that a T205 set that "sold" for over 40K this summer in Goodwin showed up for sale, card by card, at the National a few days later and was deeply discounted -- by Goodwin?

topple
 

Dan,

You like to use the term "topple" too? That is awesome but it is mine first. This thread is outrageous.

Dan,

Scan on the way.

Jeff,

I thought the discussion on that thread was specifically about the legitimacy of the card being sold 4 times. The title of the thread is Cards Making The Rounds. I did not see any posts about questions as to whether or not a consignor was paid on that thread.

As far as what Bill brought for sale to the National I did not pay too close attention. The time I spent at this table was mainly looking over the auction preview and speaking to him and several collectors who seemed to be hanging out behind his table. I won't speak for Bill but it has been my experience that he does not bring a great deal to sell at the shows.

Greg

For clarification, I am not a Truther nor a Birther.

I think there are valid reasons that Bill may have items from his last auction for sale at The National. I know of a couple guys who were making the rounds recently bidding on items and never having any intention to pay for them. I can't comment specifically about the t205s, but it does happen. I'm not defending anyone, cause I really don't know what the truth is, all I'm saying is that there seems to be an overwhelming positive response from buyers and sellers from his auctions and I will give him the benefit of the doubt till proven otherwise.

bigfish- come on with it! I'm bored.

There is an innocent explanation for everything. Here, this PSA 8 1965 Ernie Banks went for 5x that day (723, typically sells around 150 on a good day) due to two bidders not having the patience to wait for the next one to come along or to find another of the 10 then available. Or maybe it was the flowery description.

http://goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=2375

 

Real nice to know... Hopefully, they are through "making the rounds".

I don't know about the entire set, but I bought eight or nine key T205's from Goodwin at the Cleveland National. I was surprised to see they were the same examples previously sold in the July 2009 auction. They were good deals, upgrades for my set and I paid full asking price.

I'm just glad to see all the posts by Barry. I saw the "RIP" next to his name earlier in the thread and became concerned. :)

I am also someone who occasionally has to sells cards. Sometimes I sell in order to pay for other cards, and sometimes I sell simply because my attention span with baseball cards is so short and I constantly change focus. The cards might be resold only a few months after purchase, so hopefully this does not create suspicion for those who help me auction these cards.

As far as results, sometimes I do ok, but more often than not, the cards I sell go for less than the average on VCP. That's jsut the nature of the hobby. Unlike some other auction houses, Goodwin has always paid me on time, and I do trust Goodwin to be an honest auction house.

I was the consignor for the E300 Plow Cobb on 5/8/09 and I was paid for this card a few weeks after the auction. I also did not ask anyone to shill the auction on my behalf if that is what you are suggesting.

In that auction, I consigned four cards, and had good results on the E300, but took losses on the other cards. Overall, I did a little worse than breaking even on the four.

Wes, as we've discussed -- repeatedly -- I have never felt you were involved in shill bidding. Shill bidding is not always done by the consignors. (Ask Doug Allen about this)

And I respect your feelings about Goodwin; most consignors are happy with him and if I were you, considering the history of the sales of that Plows Cobb, I'd have been happy as well.

The long hoped-for bullet had entered his brain .... he had won the victory over himself -- he loved Bill Goodwin.

Goodwin Thread
 

Since we are "once again" on the topic of the Plow's Candy card...not that it is anyone's business...I just happened to be the under bidder on the card. I bid several times AFTER the $14+K number it received in Mastro and before the auction commenced I had already decided I would pay up to $20K. I did not place any ceiling bids on this one and went after it bid by bid. Why would I want to pay so much in a a down economy? I am beginning to realize that very rare and desirable cards get extravagant numbers in ALL auctions. I have paid excessive premiums for cards in the past few years, and I am sure will have the last laugh, especially when the economy turns around. There are certain cards that will ALWAYS get the numbers.

Regarding the T205's at Goodwin's table, like Greg, I don't know much about them but have been hearing multiple horror stories from the major auctuion houses with reference to non-paying bidders. In fact, I am sure we have all read the Mile High write-up regarding the Bresich Williams SGC 60 Cy Young and why it is being offered again. Brian D. is a great guy and I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on the E107 Young. I think this situation is growing incresingly alarming because NO auction houses seem to be taking legal action against non-paying bidders, most likely due to the bad press it could generate. Until that happens, bidders will continue to take advatantage of an auction house and, at will, make impromptu decisions not to pay. This is an issue that will eventually need to be dealt with by EVERY auction house or else they will continue to have to pay their consigners (if they choose that route) and "eat" their respective unpaid lots.

Thoughts?

Joe T.

I think I remember receiving an e-mail from Robert Edward Auctions regarding its spring auction. More than 1,500 lots, and only one non-paying bidder. My guess is that REA has the same core pool of bidders as the other major auction houses.

REA is really dodging bullets. One non-paying bidder in an auction with that many lots, and other auction houses are getting stood up multiple times in auctions with one-third the number of lots.

Goodwin Thread
 

And I guess we all need to take REA's comments about non-paying bidder counts as gospel....give me a break!

Oh no. Not facts!!! Thanks for posting.

I need to consult my guide so I know just what to take as "gospel."

Other than one non-paying bidder in my last auction, I have had every lot paid for for years, comprising perhaps 8-10 consecutive auctions. I never even thought of that as an issue. As such, I am extremely skeptical of auctions that claim a large number of renegers.

And I guess we all need to take REA's Barry Sloate's comments about non-paying bidder counts as gospel....give me a break!

Edited to add: Someone — one of the whales, I think — downloaded a virus to my computer and disabled my sarcasm font.

Only great guys have renegers.

Wow, Goodwin must have "sold" that T205 lot during his July auction and then minutes later the "winner" told him that he would refuse to pay, thus permitting Goodwin to pack up the set and take it to the National just days later and sell it card by card. Yeah, that's the ticket.

So Barry and REA have all their winners pay but poor Bill has renegger after renegger. Just his poor, dumb luck. Good thing his luck rebounds when he sells PSA 8 commons for 2-3x what they have sold for the dozens of times before and after his auctions.

1956 Topps Luis Aparicio PSA 8: 42 sales over the past three years...highest 'sale' was $822 by Goodwin right after the economy tanked last November. Of the 41 other sales, only twice did the card break $500, once at $515 and once at $565.

1965 Topps Harmon Killebrew, PSA 8: 64 sales over the past three years, Goodwin sold the card twice -- and had the top two "realized" prices.

The innocent explanations are obvious ... I just don't know what they are.

If Bill had cards out for direct sale that were in previous auctions who was told by Bill that the reason he has them at his table were due to bidders not paying?

I met a few collectors at the National at his table who had their own material for sale at his table.

A little perspective, please, or as William Shatner might say
 

GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a hobby! I mean, look at you, look at the way you're acting! You've turned an enjoyable little collection, that normal people do as a lark, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME! I mean, how old are you people? What have you done with yourselves? You, with the toughest want list, you must be almost 60... when was the last time you kissed a girl? I didn't think so! So... venture out of your apartments and GROW THE HELL UP! I mean, it's just baseball cards, damnit, IT'S JUST BASEBALL CARDS!

J/K; much love to everyone on this Rosh Hashana (even you goyim; you know, the ones who eat mayonnaise).

Happy holidays Adam. Now that was funny!

Almost as funny as this
 

1962 Topps AL & NL Homer Kings #401:

7/14/09 eBay $247.83
3/19/09 eBay $143.62
3/1/09 eBay $224.50
2/6/09 eBay $190.61
1/20/09 eBay $271.88
11/25/08 eBay $235.99
11/14/08 Goodwin $282.00
9/18/08 eBay $214.38
9/2/08 eBay $214.83
3/11/08 eBay $153.78
3/6/08 Goodwin $192.00
1/17/08 eBay $321.11
12/3/07 eBay $133.81
11/30/07Goodwin $5,011.00
11/29/07 eBay $168.59
6/16/07 eBay $142.29
6/14/07 eBay $83.11
3/14/07 eBay $143.61
3/7/07 eBay $154.05
3/2/07 eBay $355.00
1/17/07 eBay $134.49
10/29/06 eBay $189.50

Such a difficult card to find! ONE day before Goodwin "sold" the card for over 5K it sold on ebay for $168; THREE days later on ebay it sold for $133!!!

Adam,
 

Well said. It appears a few members are on a witch hunt. Not sure why the axe is grinding but I guess they have their reasons.

Red Sox won tonight!

Exhibitman, with all due respect, but you've got to be kidding. So just because it's baseball cards means suspected instances of fraud should be treated differently than those that occur, say, in the securities business? Recently in a private transaction I acquired a rare card. The price was based on a reported auction transaction that, based on subsequent information, I now have reason to believe was a sham. So, yes I get the card I wanted, but at a price probably substantially higher than it would have cost had reported "market transactions" been based on real happenings. Maybe had this happened to you you would not be upset. But I am and I don't believe that fraud should be condoned in baseball cards anymore than in other businesses, and that open discussions of suspected instances should be scornfully dismissed.

Corey- in all fairness to Adam, he was parodying a sketch from SNL that William Shatner hosted quite a few years ago.

Corey
 

That's why Adam posted that J/K (Just Kidding) at the end of that post. Barry nailed it; it was dripping with sarcasm about everything.

And thus; that will probably be Adam's last attempt at humour :D

Um, yeah, the grinding axe being I don't like getting ripped off by crooked auctioneers. I'm funny that way. Didn't like it with Mastro and I don't like it here either. Unlike you, I don't have a financial or personal relationship with Bill so spare me the fake outrage.

By the way, Doug Allen just walked past my computer screen, saw the 62 HR leaders auction results, and blushed.