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-   -   Hey, pennant guys (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=183684)

thetahat 12-20-2019 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MK (Post 1940686)
So were these pennants used the same logo but weren’t part of that series?
Mike … my guess is: same company, different production run. The one on the left may be earlier. I think Domer is onto something …. I'll address it below. Love the orange Cubs!

thetahat 12-20-2019 04:15 PM
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domer05 (Post 1940701)
The common element in this series seems to be an original mascot design on the head-end of the pennant; with the city name spelled out and a player (or two) wedged between the lettering. On all but the Washington pennants, this seems to be the case. (Greg: just curious as to why you think the Washington pennants belong to this series.)

We can eliminate Keezer as the maker. Although they always used monochrome graphics, like those in this series, they also always used tassels. Thick tassels. The kind that are sewed in tight and never fall out. Moreover, on many (but not all) of their pennants from the late 1940s and 1950s, they stamped their maker's mark on the reverse. To my knowledge none of these pennants have any such mark. Also, I have a Keezer catalogue from ca. 1950 and the artwork used for the 16 big league baseball teams is different from these; and, different from those shown on Greg's ca. 1956 little league ad.

I think we can eliminate ADFLAG, too. Some pennants from this series feature tassels; but, the majority do not. To my knowledge ADFLAG never used tassels.

That leaves WGN. Their production of sports pennants began in the 1930s; but, it was limited to Chicago sports teams. Or, so I thought.... They also began using monochrome designs; but switched to polychrome about 1950. Most importantly, they used tassels in the early 1940s; but, seem to have stopped using them sometime in the mid-1940s.

To me, this last characteristic is the best evidence that WGN manufactured this series. Of the usual suspects, they're the only one that makes sense.

Of course, it's possible some other maker made these that we all haven't yet identified, like Annin. There has to be at least one other national manufacturer from the late 1940s that we haven't yet identified, and this series may be part of their work.

It's interesting this mystery maker made both an NY and SF Giants pennant for the series; but, only a Brooklyn Dodgers. I'd like to think I know LA Dodgers pennants as well as anyone and I cannot think of any Los Angeles Dodgers pennant that looks like this; or, utilizes that same bum smoking cigar artwork.
Domer, I think you nailed it. First, yeah the Senators pennant fits the bill, it actually has a crossed bats graphic that a couple others also have. I never noticed that, either. Not sure why my other Senators pennant is missing the cartoon guy and the other stuff but its the same font and same Capitol building graphic.

But there's a lot of evidence that puts these to 1951 (in addition to Mark's hand-dated pennant) and to a company from Chicago.

For some reason there's one team that got a dated anniversary pennant … the Cubs. And there are multiple versions of it. Why no other NL teams? Also the non-dated Cubs pennant comes in two different colors … I think the Chisox also does. Don't know if true for any other clubs.

thetahat 12-20-2019 04:15 PM
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Lastly, I think this may establish WGN as the maker for a certain late 40s set. I am attaching a pic I pulled off an auction site … I see the same Boston Bees pennant Mark has. These are identifiable by a thicker spine, and thin tassels that are further away from the corners. Mike's Cubs pennant shares this style and it has the same logo. I also have a red one pictured and also there's the NY Giants pennant pictured a few posts back with tassels. … Even though there's a different logo'd Cubs pennant pictured here, the pennant is *identical* in composition and design.

thetahat 12-20-2019 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan (Post 1940711)
I've got the Browns Pennant from this series, and (aside from the Reds) it is my favorite. Will try to dig it out and show it here...

Also, I agree with Greg, that the Senators are part of this series. Same artist/artwork, minus the little vignette.

Also want to add that these are all very high quality, thick felt pennants. One of them that I owned previously had vintage ink writing on the back which stated the date of the game... "Red Sox 4 - Indians 2, June 16, 1951" or something to that effect. I don't recall the exact score or date, but it was definitely sold in 1951.

Lastly, there is a second Red Sox variation. Similar to the one Greg pictured, but quite different, on a darker red felt. I will try to post that one after the Holidays as well.
Yes and your alternate Red Sox version is tougher and much more attractive. Been looking hard for it. That one fits the general style better, you'll noticed most logos have the team nickname under the logo.

Would love to see your Browns pennant … in fact I'd really really really really love to see the Browns pennant in "wave two" of your pennant sale :)

Speaking of this set … I have seen these in a slightly smaller size, and not with tassels but with a spine that extended out, as if it was part of a string. Do you know what I mean?

perezfan 12-20-2019 04:25 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetahat (Post 1940767)
Lastly, I think this may establish WGN as the maker for a certain late 40s set. I am attaching a pic I pulled off an auction site … I see the same Boston Bees pennant Mark has. These are identifiable by a thicker spine, and thin tassels that are further away from the corners. Mike's Cubs pennant shares this style and it has the same logo. I also have a red one pictured and also there's the NY Giants pennant pictured a few posts back with tassels. … Even though there's a different logo'd Cubs pennant pictured here, the pennant is *identical* in composition and design.
Check this out, FWIW...

Detroit Tigers rare variation pennant, dated 1951.

Same exact Design/Batter/Artist as the Yankees Pennant in the pic above... including color-shaded graphics, wavy city name font and Batter striking ball with lines of motion.

perezfan 12-20-2019 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetahat (Post 1940770)
Yes and your alternate Red Sox version is tougher and much more attractive. Been looking hard for it. That one fits the general style better, you'll noticed most logos have the team nickname under the logo.

Would love to see your Browns pennant … in fact I'd really really really really love to see the Browns pennant in "wave two" of your pennant sale :)

Speaking of this set … I have seen these in a slightly smaller size, and not with tassels but with a spine that extended out, as if it was part of a string. Do you know what I mean?


Yes! The tassels were like an extension of the spine.

Matt Z. had a bunch of them, and (I think) has finally sold them all. The Tigers stuck around on eBay for the longest time, but is now gone, I believe.

Matt's been a great contributor here... perhaps he has some perspective on these smaller ones as well.

bocca001 12-20-2019 05:25 PM
Based on the white felt spine on most of Greg's pennants from this series, the non-felt orange sheen/ribbon/satin spine on at least two of the SF Giants pennants (me and Rob), the comment that this series is very well made, and the estimated date of 1951, it seems like the SF Giants pennant is not part of the same "series." I would not use the term "high quality" to describe the two SF Giants pennants I now own.

The existence multiple Cubs pennants seems to point to a midwest/Chicago area maker. Not sure why they would run off SF Giants pennants unless they had no other SF Giants version to sell at an early 1958 Cubs game or something like that. But then you'd think that there would be an LA Dodgers version too.

bocca001 12-20-2019 08:58 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Here is what the spine material looks like on the SF Giants pennant.

Domer05 12-21-2019 01:28 AM
I have never seen a spine like that ... ever.

The material looks a lot like nylon. Like it came from a stadium giveaway backpack--not a ca. 1958 pennant. Do you suppose it may have been added by a recent owner, post-purchase? As in ... "spinal surgery"?? Perhaps the original spine was 100% wool/felt ... and the moths made a meal of it back in the 1990s?

Do both of these SF pennants feature the very same material? Or just the one?

Domer05 12-21-2019 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetahat (Post 1940657)
There is no (known) Orioles from this set, and the Phillies had drifted away from the blue jay.
Wait, can we go back to something? The Phillies used a blue jay as their mascot?? :confused:


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