Inspiration:

Wow Rob... Amazing results on that one. Might be even whiter than it was originally. I'd feel more confident if those graphics were red, but will keep the faith!

New content just posted: WGN Flag & Decorating Co.
 

I have been working hard on my Pennant Fever BLOG, and I am happy to report that I just posted some new content. This time we're taking a look at WGN Flag & Decorating Co. of Chicago, IL. This post is full of observations, commentary, pictures, interviews, and even anecdotes. I think you'll enjoy reading it.

So when you're all through bleaching your stained pennants, wash your hands and do check it out: https://pennantfever.weebly.com/ . :)

Finally, I want to thank Rob G. of feltfootball.com and Matt Z. (pennantdynasty) for allowing me to use pictures from their sites for use in this and prior posts of mine.

Enjoy!

KB

I really enjoyed your write up on WGN pennants, Kyle. I was also amazed by the craftsmanship shown on your companion blog, pennantfactory.

I was happy to learn the maker of three Giants pennants I own. These pennants have always "bugged" me and, in a way, they still do. Why......?

I began collecting in 1993, finding most of my stuff through SCD. I started with ebay in 1998. In the first 5-7 years of collecting, I had never seen any of the Giants WGN pennants. Then, all of the sudden, they showed up regularly on ebay and always seemed to be in perfect shape. It has never made sense to me that these 40 year old (at the time) pennants always seemed to be pristine in both color and condition. "Warehouse find"? For what it's worth, the polychromatic version with 1958 seems to be the most common. I wonder if the two dated examples could be knockoffs of the other one, especially since your research puts these pennants in the mid-to-late 1960's. :confused:

Rob: Glad you enjoyed it :)

So, my impression of WGN was that, outside of Chicago teams, they did not really make MLB pennants until the mid to late 1960s. They made a few Cubs and White Sox pennants before then, but ... I wasn't aware of any dated pennants from non-local teams as early as 1958. Good find!

Most of the non-local MLB pennants I showed in my post appeared to be from the latter half of the 1960s. Note that the Cardinals one features a "Busch Memorial Stadium" (1966+) and the Braves one features the Atlanta Braves (1966+). The '64 Yankees one was the earliest dated one I could find for a non-Chicago team. I just assumed they all were made within a 4-5 year window.

Apparently not. I guess they adopted this style in the late 1950s and continued using it throughout the 60s..?

The Cincinnati Redlegs "Big Red Machine" one was a bit puzzling. The earliest reference to "Big Red Machine" I could find seems to have come in 1969; however, most historians would consider this team's reign to have spanned the 1970-79 range. By 1969, however, MLB had cracked down on unlicensed novelties, so I can't imagine WGN made this as late as 1970 or thereafter, but who knows....

The other interesting thing is that I didn't think the Reds were still using the name "Redlegs" by the late 1960s or 70s. Perhaps they used "Redlegs" over "Reds" to skirt copyright laws that MLB had begun enforcing? I am curious as to PerezFan's take on this.

Finally, you make an interesting point about the above-average condition these WGN pennants are consistently found in. I thought the same as you: that these were primarily unsold stock found in a warehouse recently. But, I'm starting to think they were just really well made.

Rob,
I can’t speak to the others, but the dated 1958 pennant was part of a large pennant find from a California antique dealer. I bought many of the one offs from this dealer along with quite a few of the 1958 version. This “find” also included many Rose Bowl pennants that you see around from the same era. I found that the bottom one is the most difficult for me to run across. BTW, there were also some matching dated Dodgers ones in this find as well. In regards to condition, they were all unsold stock from back in the day and NrMt condition.

No baseball, but here is a recent pick-up for the Fighting Irish fans, from when they could beat Clemson:

I rarely post any "pick ups" as most of the items I buy these days are for resale. Recently though, I came across two that I couldn't live without.

1. Early University of Minnesota Gophers baseball pennant. I have seen many other schools, but never the Gophers. This will fit perfectly with my collection of early Gophers baseball uniforms.

2. New York Yankees "Made in China" bedazzled pennant. I have seen this pennant before, but did not have it in my Yankees collection. This one is NrMt and I couldn't pass it up. For those who could have bid against me on it, thanks for not doing it.

I don't get the opportunity to add to my Yankees collection often as I am up against some big hitters in the pennant hobby. I was very happy to add these two.

Ok, back to bleaching before and afters. Jason

Awesome pickups, Jason! Love them both.... Had the Yankee Pennant many years ago, and it's one of those I truly regret parting with.

The Minnesota Pennant is a stunner. I know it's from the teens... Is it oversized? Two GREAT pickups!

Great read Kyle! Surprised to learn it was WGN making one of my favorite football styles...The DayGlo football player surrounded by smaller players in stars. I love that one. Seems they made a lot more college pennants in that style than pro. I rarely come across a pro team but a new college version will show up every few months. And not just midwest schools. Army, Navy, Syracuse, Kentucky have all turned up recently.

I was wondering about that Redlegs pennant too. It's an oddity. Big Red Machine became popular in the 1970s. Not sure why they made the Redlegs version because there is a much more common version of that pennant that says Reds.

Anyone have any insight?

Great info, Jason. Of the three I posted, the black one is the stiffest (you can see the shiny polyester strands from the back) and has the Day-Glo paint Kyle referenced. I think that one was definitely done by WGN. I think the other (softer felt) ones may have been reproduced by someone else and dated, after the fact. Make sense?

I understand, but I think the dated Giants version is actually from 1958. Generally speaking (I have purchased a number of old stock pennant deals) many of these pennants that are year specific or team specific to an event, rarely sell through leaving extras they are unable to sell. Years later we appreciate it, but at the time it’s dead stock.

I always thought these WGN pennants were Ad Flags .... I personally have my doubts about the 1950 ASG pennant, it doesn’t look like a match in style ... is there another reason to believe it is from that maker?

Greg: Your point is well taken. I too considered this to be by ADFLAG. And, of the several dozen pennants I used in my WGN post, this '50 ASG pennant was one I was on the fence over.

Here's my rationale for WGN:

(1) Colors. WGN seemed to embrace the transition to two-color and even polychrome graphics well in advance of ADFLAG. The Notre Dame pennants I showcased illustrate this transition, and I can confirm that this transition took place around 1950.

(2) Artwork. I covered this earlier in my AFLAG post, but this Comiskey Park graphic was used by both ADFLAG and WGN; however, when ADFLAG used it, they hid their "ADFLAG" name in the drawing, whereas WGN never did this. This Comiskey Park rendition lacks any such mark.

(3) Stars. WGN's art department was obsessed with stars! Here, we have baseball players silhouetted by a star, much like WGN's football design that Rob G. (and I) admire so much. I can't say that ADFLAG's art department shared this affinity for stars.

(4) Special event pennants. Finally, and this was the deal breaker for me, WGN was consistently big on special events, and this continued throughout the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. And an All-star game being played in their backyard would qualify as such an event. Nine years later, when the '59 World Series came to Chicago, WGN made pennants for both the hometown Sox and the visiting Dodgers. This trend continued for the Sugar, Orange, and Cotton Bowls; and, of course, the Super Bowl. ADFLAG, in contrast, ignored most of these special events. Sure, they did make NL and AL Champions pennants; but, they typically didn't reference the event itself by name, e.g., "1968 World Series" which suggests their league championship pennants were not made specifically for sale at the event.

Remember, WGN wasn't just a pennant maker, they were also a concessionaire. I'm fairly certain Mr. Newbould and his grand children were outside Comiskey selling this pennant in the summer of 1950. If they were willing to do that in South Bend, there's no reason to think they wouldn't try it at Comiskey. To my knowledge, ADFLAG was always a wholesaler, not a retailer.

Like I said, this wasn't an easy call for me. But, my opinion is this was WGN's work.

Boring weekend so I took your advice Mark. Guy let me have it for $30.

I wasn't sure about this one. It has the same red batter Rob made vanish. :eek:

<a href="http://imgbox.com/zqTtszD5" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/e8/52/zqTtszD5_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>
<a href="http://imgbox.com/Nr1vPiVJ" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/5c/4e/Nr1vPiVJ_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>
<a href="http://imgbox.com/g6lZMtxe" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/3a/06/g6lZMtxe_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>
<a href="http://imgbox.com/zcr1jfmm" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/45/de/zcr1jfmm_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>
<a href="http://imgbox.com/giyLrlFG" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/3d/28/giyLrlFG_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>
<a href="http://imgbox.com/1r2Ac06X" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/62/b0/1r2Ac06X_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>
<a href="http://imgbox.com/d1cHLX4N" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/04/77/d1cHLX4N_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>
<a href="http://imgbox.com/zKq8lgg2" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/d4/ea/zKq8lgg2_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

Rob would you explain the process for a beginner like me? I have a couple of early 70's that have browned from being stored in a cardboard box. Both have some red.

Hi Mike...It's on page 208. See posts #2073 and 2077.

Though I don't think early 70s are great candidates if they're made out of the stiffer material. I've experimented on a couple junk 70s pennants and the results were not good.

Thanks Rob, these are of the recent stiffer variety so they probably would not be good candidates.

Agree... if it’s post 1969, forget about it!

Rob-
Looks like a flawless result. We’re there any issues along the way? Any bleeding of the red? Obviously the Batter came out great, but curious if you had to do the hurried rinsing ritual to save it.

Stellar work, Rob!

Mark, in my experience, there’s no such thing as hurried rinsing....it either works or it’s a disaster. :p

No issues at all with this one.

I started by working from the back of the pennant and I tried to use as little bleach as possible to avoid problems.

Started with 90/10 mix just to see what would happen. Didn't have much effect on the bad spots but did whiten the background some.

Then I increased to about 70/30 and continued to work on the back. I let 30 minutes to an hour go by between each spraying so I could assess the progress. I probably sprayed it six or more times over the course of the day. This got the pennant pretty white, but several trouble spots remained.

By now I was fairly confident that the paint wasn't going to run so I turned the pennant over and hit the trouble spots directly...which included hitting the graphics. I tried to do that sparingly but it couldn't be avoided.

Finally, I had to strengthen the mixture to about 50/50 to get those sports on the tip to say uncle. I didn't have to spray the 50/50 mixture near the paint luckily.

Before I went to bed I sprayed the pennant with water to rinse off any excess bleach and I let it sit wet over night. It was nice and bright the next morning.

Sandwiched it between some towels to let dry for a few hours, then hit it with a warm iron.

Mission accomplished.

Hey Rob. Do you hang or suspend the pennant while doing this or lay it flat? Also, do you mask off the areas you don't want hit with spray at all? Thanks.

Hey, Kyle, aka pennant maker researcher extraordinaire -

I'm pretty sure I showed this "WC" mark on my 1962 picture pennant (left of photo). I was re-organizing my pennants the other day and found the same WC on a few more. The last one pictured shows a batter in un-enclosed Candlestick but I also found the same mark on similar pennants of post-enclosure Candlestick (1970). Any ideas? A buddy says "Wincraft" but I think we ruled that out.

You probably meant the other Rob, but I'm a bleacher, too. :p

I use painter's tape to both hang mine and protect the spine. The spine would obviously bleach out otherwise. I have never masked off areas....I think you would get a noticeable line. I soak my pennants and the bleach would probably leach even I masked off an area. I suppose it might work with a very light misting.

Here's one I forgot I had. Vintage? Repro? Maybe a companion to one of those BF3 type mini sets?

That looks like a Mitchell and Ness repro of a 1936 BF3 premium.

Thanks Rob.

Here's a pic of the entire operation! Just lay the pennant face down and tape the wide end to keep it from sliding.

Yes...I would mask completely any areas you didn't want hit with bleach. The pennants I've bleached typically don't have any areas like that lol.


<a href="http://imgbox.com/VIbvP4mf" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/72/33/VIbvP4mf_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

I think you’re probably right. It’s in way too good of shape to be old.

Yup... It's definitely the M&N Repro.

Thanks for the tips fellas.

The Gophers pennant is actually only about 26 inches. I expected it to be the typical oversize, but was kind of surprised when it was smaller. I have not seen anything like this in that size and it has not been altered. Who knows.

Of a BF3?

It's a repro

Rob:

I think the consensus when we last discussed the first two pennants you showed was that Trench made these; and, this "WC" mark was likely a concessionaire's mark. Although we were stumped as to precisely who this concessionaire was.

We found at least one other pennant--a Univ. of California stadium pennant featuring Memorial Stadium, I recall--that also had a similar "WC" mark. It too appeared to be by Trench. So we speculated that WC must have been a San Francisco Bay area concessionaire and/or retailer that sold Trench pennants.

This new/third pennant you discovered is really interesting. Here, the "WC" mark is quite hidden within the artwork (on the batter's knee). I struggled to find it. That's making me re-consider things.... Although, I can think of no pennant manufacturer that went by these initials in the 1960s.

The problem with WinCraft is they didn't come to exist until 1961. And, when it began, it was reportedly a three-person company specializing in buttons and pom-poms for local high schools in Minnesota. So if "WC" on your '62 Giants pennant stood for WinCraft, we'd have to believe they made the astronomical leap from Winona, MN high school buttons to San Francisco Giant pennants, within a year's time.

Which seems unlikely.

I will cover ASCO/WinCraft next on Pennant Fever. Maybe I'll learn more about their early days to be able to shed some new light on this.

mm

Could “WC” be the illustrators initials?

I have some of those same pennants with no WC, so I don't think that it is the illustrator.

Here's that Cal pennant...only minus the WC.

<a href="http://imgbox.com/BZkz2MGb" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/7c/80/BZkz2MGb_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

Small antique shows are sometimes better than the big shows

$10 lot

Can’t beat that Yankees pennant for 10 bucks!

Lakers Pennants
 

I have a few Lakers pennants from I think from the 1960's. Can anyone show what other pre-1970 Lakers pennants there are to collect?

White guys in short shorts? Gotta be the 60’s! :p

Yes... Those two on the left might be the only ones out there from the 1960s. There are not many variations, and I cannot think of any others off the top of my head.

The third one is definitely 1970s. I know because we moved there in 1971, and attended our first Lakers Game at the Forum in '72... which is the year I bought this one at the game. I believe they carried that same style through to at least 1975 or '76. You can easily see it's a bit larger, and think you'll notice the felt material is different from the two 1960s pennants.

Looks like all 3 of yours are in fantastic condition... Great stuff!

Love the one in the middle. Don't think I've ever seen it.

Oh man, three of my favorites! Thanks for sharing. The first comes from the Sports Arena days, before the Lakers moved to Inglewood in '67. It's pretty rare. The second one is likely from the late 1960s. It was made in several different color schemes: one of purple felt with white lettering; another with blue felt and gold lettering. I have always suspected these other variants came from the early to mid-1960s, when the team colors had not matured to the purple and gold we know today. Your version is purple and gold so it's probably from the late 1960s, after Jack Kent Cooke changed the team colors and moved the team to the Forum.

I've always loved that third pennant, too. It is way more common because, by 1970, professional basketball had caught on in Los Angeles and the Lakers were quite popular. But, go back ten years and that simply wasn't the case when they first arrived from Minneapolis in 1960; hence the scarcity of early 1960-era Lakers pennants.

There's one other style from the early 1960s that was made for several NBA teams, including the Lakers. It is quite rare and looks like this:

There has to be a Minneapolis Lakers pennant out there somewhere, right???

Hey Kyle...Any idea who made this one?

<a href="http://imgbox.com/XLiOUyrq" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/3c/cf/XLiOUyrq_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

Currently available in the Hake's Auction being promoted here now. Bid up to $181 so far.

Would look great in any Nazi themed man cave. :eek:

403,000 views... and I think Rob may have just killed the longest running thread on the Memorabilia Side! :eek:

Wasn't even thinking that I just outed the auction. Sorry about that. Though I doubt anyone will complain openly. ;)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ccc595938f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f05ab543db.jpg

Two of my more recent pickups. Always looking for Buffalo sports pennants. If anyone has anything they’re looking to sell or trade, message me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. I have seen one in my collecting career and I have buyers who ask me yearly. In fact, if anyone has one or knows of one, I am your buyer. I have been looking for my personal collection for a long long time.

No, no idea who made this....

Or, who would want it.

Those are both great! What era(s) are they?

The Bisons football is from 1946. They were an AAFC team that became the first version of the Buffalo Bills. No relation to the current version.

Thanks, Rob. With all our new knowledge, can we guess the maker? :p

I love how the hockey Bisons ripped off the Pepsi logo!

Hey, pennant guys
 

The team's unusual logo stems from the Bisons being purchased in 1956 by the owner of the local franchise of Pepsi-Cola, Ruby Pastor, who changed the team's colors and logo to reflect the soft drink company. Use one business to promote the other.
My understanding is the Bisons pennant was only sold at Hershey Arena in the 60s, and came in a few different colors (I’ve seen orange, green, and blue). They did different designs for each AHL team at the time, but certainly Hershey Bears pennants in this style are most common.

Here’s a few other examples:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c2d0fe0a12.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7ec7f98bd9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4903bc7e54.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For some reason, the Bisons hockey reminds me of this one. Probably because of the skater/batter and net/fielder.

Great stuff everyone...

The bleaching of the Reds Pennant was a mild success, I suppose. I could've done better with a bit more patience, I think. To Rob's point, the pennant continued to whiten after I was done bleaching... so I probably went a little too heavy, too soon.

The red graphics began to run, and then it was a quick rush to rinse it clean. If I went slower, the red might not have run at all. But the colored stains were still quite visible, so I kept at it. Had I stopped earlier, it may have whitened enough on its own (without bleeding).

But overall it looks significantly better. Here's the "before" (which looked far worse in person than on eBay....)

And the "after"...

I’d say “significantly better” is an understatement. Welcome to the Bleach Club!

Mark - Great job on the pennant cleaning! A significant improvement. Makes me wonder if you can use a cue tip to bleach off some of the red around the letters. Too bad we can’t just drop these off to the dry cleaners!

Hey Mark...I'd definitely take the "after". Nice job. Red for some reason is unpredictable. It's the only color I've seen run. But it still looks way better now than it did in "before".

And yes....absolutely..You can do touch ups with a Q-Tip to make it look even better. If you don't have steady hands, use a divider like an empty semi rigid card sleeve to create a barrier between the bleeding and the graphics. Then dab away with a Q-Tip in the other hand. I'd use pure bleach for the touch ups.

I might just give that a try.... thanks all!

We're getting dangerously close to the bottom of the page so...
 

Thought I'd share this agonizing eBay result. Agonizing because I wasn't the buyer. Anyone here want to take credit for the steal of 2019 thus far?

<a href="http://imgbox.com/O9y6ciI2" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/ef/11/O9y6ciI2_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

Shipping was kind of high. :p

I feel your pain, Rob. It’s like when I missed the Giants/d**gers Opening Day 1958 you showed me. Quit looking at completed results!

Yeah...Damn that guy for trying to sneak a little extra profit into the shipping charge. ;)

I hear you man...I'm a glutton for punishment. I can't resist.

This amazes me...have you ever seen a Minneapolis Muskies or Pipers pennant?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Raiders pennant was a steal. I wonder how it fell under the radar. That pennant always generates lot of interest and commands serious prices for an early 60’s pennant.

At least there's this. Ebay is so helpful...

<a href="http://imgbox.com/qhjXl3SM" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/5a/ab/qhjXl3SM_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

Nope

Another great idea from eBay.... trying to compare something that they know NOTHING about, in a desperate attempt to sell more stuff. A pathetic waste of time. I don't think a single one of those "referral listings" has ever led to an actual sale (in Sports Memorabilia, anyway... maybe in Cutlery or Electronics). Just another unnecessary eBay annoyance.

Our friend in Canada is getting better...

Real: $295 or best offer

<a href="http://imgbox.com/TLcvedE0" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/20/26/TLcvedE0_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

Fake: $249 or best offer

<a href="http://imgbox.com/MMXTdiWU" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/18/d4/MMXTdiWU_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

What's their username? I'd like to save that seller. Seriously...

I must admit that I took a long look at that Colts pennant last night. It seemed off, but I wanted to make sure. I also came here to look to see if it was the same seller discussed before. The seller of this pennant is rifleman58, from British Columbia.

I’ve bought from him before, but never a pennant.

Haha. You're absolutely right. And it's adding insult to injury when you get outbid on an item and then eBay dangles some pathetic POS in front of you as if it's a worthy alternative.

Hey Rob...You have this one? :D

<a href="http://imgbox.com/XQluYh9M" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/e6/76/XQluYh9M_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

New addition...Wondering if anyone has seen this style before? I hadn't. Happy to make a new discovery. It's been a while since I saw a Rams pennant I didn't know existed.

Clearly from the 1960s.

<a href="http://imgbox.com/bwRIqzxa" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/8a/e9/bwRIqzxa_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

Very, very cool!

Real or fake...

Fake. $249 or best offer. $20+ more than any real Seals pennant on eBay.

<a href="http://imgbox.com/w0wSfkVZ" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/d4/ee/w0wSfkVZ_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>