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-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   the list (of criminals) is revealed (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=217245)

Stonepony 01-29-2016 08:07 AM
Forman shills
April 2007
Lot 464 1953 B Mantle SGC 88
Lot 476 1955 T Koufax SGC 92
Lot 1111 1911 E94 Crawford PSA 8
Lot 1354 1934 Goudey uncut sheet
Lot 1379 1953 T B Russell SGC 96

June 2007
Lot 1035 1964 T Giants F Robinson SGC 96
Lot 1678 1938 PSA graded collection

Dpeck100 01-29-2016 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz (Post 1497203)
Here is a list of all the shilled lots consigned by Steve and Dave. Most are SGC, but there are some PSA and GAI.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...pub?output=pdf

Just means he is an equal opportunity profiteer.

AGuinness 01-29-2016 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1497074)
The consignor obviously would have preferred a reserve, as it would not have cost him thousands of dollars not to sell his set, as it turned out, but he was told the option was not available. So he took the instruction of what was then still a mostly highly respected auction house as to an alternative. Sure everyone can sit in judgment now. Whatever.
Peter, I guess that's the point I made earlier: this type of practice is not just reflected on as shady now, it was shady then. As evidenced by its appearance in the court documents.

If ANY auction house offers this type of shady practice, it should have been a big red flag and clearly was not worth the respect people were giving it. Just because a person or auction house compels someone to do something illegal/unethical, doesn't mean they have to do it.

Parsing it for people sitting in judgement now is a cop out. It was wrong then - that's the point.

bn2cardz 01-29-2016 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1497205)
Just means he is an equal opportunity profiteer.
The hypothesis that came to mind as to why the Formans had some cards they didn't cross to SGC prior to selling were:

1) They couldn't bump it to SGC because it was trimmed and were worried about their "guarantee".

2) The pop report with the other graders made the card look rarer than their pops would.

3) So they could have deniability that they showed preference to their cards

bn2cardz 01-29-2016 08:26 AM
.double post.

Dpeck100 01-29-2016 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz (Post 1497207)
The hypothesis that came to mind as to why the Formans had some cards they didn't cross to SGC prior to selling were:

1) They couldn't bump it to SGC because it was trimmed and were worried about their "guarantee".

2) The pop report with the other graders made the card look rarer than their pops would.

3) So they could have deniability that they showed preference to their cards

Sounds pretty logical to me.

I wonder if SGC's move to Florida was planned after they new this bombshell was coming out.

xplainer 01-29-2016 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz (Post 1497207)
The hypothesis that came to mind as to why the Formans had some cards they didn't cross to SGC prior to selling were:

1) They couldn't bump it to SGC because it was trimmed and were worried about their "guarantee".

2) The pop report with the other graders made the card look rarer than their pops would.

3) So they could have deniability that they showed preference to their cards
Thinking like a criminal there...and probably right.

Shoebox 01-29-2016 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz (Post 1497203)
Here is a list of all the shilled lots consigned by Steve and Dave. Most are SGC, but there are some PSA and GAI.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...pub?output=pdf
The head of SGC is involved in nearly 30 lots that were shill bid with approximately 2/3 of the card graded by his own company.

PSA has members of its Board of Experts appear as shill bidders.

Maybe no one else goes to jail after Bill and Doug but there are certainly a lot more than just one auction house getting sh#t on them over this.

vintagetoppsguy 01-29-2016 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpeck100 (Post 1497198)
And people are worried about the grading company that has 90% market share going out of business.

SGC has less then 3%.

If any of these revelations are a death sentence for a third party grader it glaringly obvious that it's the company that's owner is caught up in this mess.

How unreal. You grade the cards, you sell them through auction houses and you enhance the price with illegal bidding.

Haha

You can't make this stuff up. We might be seeing these fellas in an episode of American Greed.

If I had a large amount of funds tied up in SGC cards this would make me sick to my stomach.
Selective reading? Comprehension problem?

There are just as many PSA names on the list as there are SGC.

Dpeck100 01-29-2016 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1497212)
Selective reading? Comprehension problem?

There are just as many PSA names on the list as there are SGC.

You see an owner?


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