![]() |
Bobby—My guesses would be Brouthers, Tip O’Neal, and Billy Hamilton
|
Jay, you have two out of the three, including the #1 player that Fred also had.
Hamilton is #1 (.455) and Brouthers is #2 (.423). Other guesses before I give a hint? -Matthew |
Alright, here's a hint: this player is best known for playing with the Cleveland Spiders during the 1890s.
|
I cheated and looked it up. I would never have guessed this person, but I do know who he is because I keep voting for him whenever there is a poll about overlooked HOF candidates. My guesses were more obvious (Hamilton, Delahanty, Brouthers).
|
The Cleveland Spiders hint gave it away ---- Cupid Childs ? Shortish career for a HOFer and one of the 19th Century guys who benefits from analytics. I doubt that people thought he was the greatest 2nd basemen of his time when he was playing. I think Bill James listed him as the best 2B of the 1890's Bid McPhee won the 1880's, played a lot longer, and was a legendary fielder.
My vote for the 19th Century who was overlooked too long would be Hamilton -- they got to him in 1961. If the object of the game is to score more runs than the other team (which it is) he was one of the best ever. Hamilton scored more than one run per game that he played for his career. |
Brian, you are correct! Childs put up a career .416 OBP. Not too bad!
|
Can I try one?
I mentioned that Billy Hamilton averaged greater than one run per game played over his career, One other Old Judge subject (barely) accomplished this remarkable feat over his career also, who was he?
(an aside no one since Hamilton has accomplished this -- only five players have scored in over 80% of the games they played) |
George Gore would be my guess (I believe he was the leadoff hitter for many of those great Giants teams)
|
Bobby --> You got it ! ... There was another one too (I messed up) Harry Stovey also barely made it.
This is the all-time runs per game list -- with a 500 game minimum and including the National Ass'n. The three guys with the asterisks played 1000+ games and are in the Old Judge set (although Hamilton was a "minor leaguer" as i recall) __ George Wright - 1.13 (per game) *Billy Hamilton - 1.06 Cal McVey - 1.05 *George Gore - 1.01 *Harry Stovey - 1.00 -- among the Old Judgers who almost made it are Brouthers, King Kelly, and Hub Collins (shorter career). == The "modern" post-1901 leaders at over 80% are Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Earl Combs and Red Rolfe --YANKEES, ALL |
Cool! Here's another one, probably not easy–
Among players with OJ cards, six of the top ten career leaders in innings pitched are HOFers (Galvin, Nichols, Keefe, Welch, Clarkson, Radbourn). Who are the other four? Consider "major leagues" only as currently defined by MLB. |
One is Mullane (pretty sure).... another should be McCormick and.Another might be Bobby Matthews (I'm not sure if he ran up enough innings in the leagues that count)... That's just three. After that Im totally guessing...
|
You have three of the four, Brian, well done! Only one to go
|
How about Gus Weyhing?
|
The best pitcher I can think of not on the list is Charlie Buffington, but I don’t know if he pitched long enough. In his day he was the equal on any pitcher.
|
spec, you got it! Weyhing is correct. Here is the list:
1. Pud Galvin 6003.1 (!) 2. Kid Nichols 5067.1 3. Tim Keefe 5049.2 4. Bobby Mathews 4956 5. Mickey Welch 4802 6. John Clarkson 4536.1 7. Count Mullane 4531.1 8. Old Hoss Radbourn 4527.1 9. Gus Weyhing 4337 10. Jim McCormick 4275.2 Charlie Buffinton is a few spots further down with 3404....not bad either! |
Single Season records by Old Judgers
Every 19th Century buff knows that Old Hoss won 59 (or 60) in 1884
some other Old Judge subjects hold less known single season.... records name the following: WAR overall in a season: Runs in a season: RBI/Per game in a season Pitcher Strikeouts in a season Pitcher WAR in a season Pitcher ERA in a season Wild Pitches in a season Put outs as 2nd Basemen Stolen Bases in a season -- Most of these are HOF greats but a few aren't famous at all... |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
I know two for certain-
WAR overall in a season: Tim Keefe Pitcher Strikeouts in a season: Matt Kilroy My guesses on the others- Runs in a season: Billy Hamilton RBI/Per game in a season: Dan Brouthers Pitcher WAR in a season: Radbourn Pitcher ERA in a season: Radbourn Wild Pitches in a season: Tim Keefe (somebody who pitched a lot...) Put outs as 2nd Basemen: Bid McPhee Stolen Bases in a season: Billy Hamilton -Matthew |
Matthew-
WAR overall is Keefe Pitcher K's is Matt "Matches" Kilroy Keefe is (somehow) NOT Pitcher WAR - I guess he was better hitter than the winner... (and Old Hoss is not the answer, either) Bid McPhee is the 2nd Basemen with the most put-outs (even without a glove most of the time) Hamilton is the Runs leader (no surprise) The others are still "open" -- I'll drop a few hints. The RBI leader was 1/3 of a HOF outfield....The pitcher WAR winner was (supposedly) the earliest PED user.....The wild pitch leader and the SB leaders are not HOF, or even HOF candidates..One of them was a "little" guy the other is not to be confused with someone named a "Lady" .. |
Quote:
SB: Baldwin? |
RBI/game must be Sam Thompson
|
Since you said "not to be confused with a someone named Lady" my answer is: someone else whose last name is Baldwin. Unfortunately, no other 19th century Baldwin comes to mind.
|
Having read Roy Kerr's book on Big Sam Thompson - Greatest Clutch Hitter Ever . . .
I'm confident Sam Thompson owns the RBI/game record with ridiculous stats in 1887 and again with the Phillies in the 1890s. Lady Baldwin had a great 1886 and would lead all NL pitchers that year but falls well short of best single season pitching WAR. |
I think the WAR winner is Galvin. I am guessing "Some Other Baldwin" for most WPs.
|
Galvin was in the P WAR leader -- I guess he wasn't as valuable a hitter as Keefe (in their respective best seasons)
Joe you are right on Big Sam Thompson -- he was well over an RBI per game played in few seasons in the 1880's and 1890's...In the 1890's he had Billy Hamilton batting in front of him. The SB leader was Hugh "little Nic" Nichol in 1887 in the AA -- I think the stats were especially crazy that year and I don't think they defined SBs the way we do now. But Nichol is still the recognized all-tiime Single-Season leader just ahead of Rickey Henderson. https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...B_season.shtml The Wild Pitch record holder is Mark Baldwin -- who was not Charles "Lady" Baldwin. Mark threw 83 WP in 1889... 20 more than second place all-time Tony "Count" Mullane who is still the career total leader... 83 WP is a lot. Cy Young only ran up 156 in his endless career. Greg Maddux had 70. https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...P_season.shtml |
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:07 AM. |