There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>"Is the evidence substantial enough now that high grade vintage sportscards are a good investment?"<br /><br />It's not enough for the card to be high grade, or for that high grade to be a low pop for that grade, what you want is a scarce card first, followed by low pop for that grade. <br /><br />In short, I think when Bruce said "Rare Ultra High Condition," the "Rare" was modifying "Card" not "Ultra High Condition." <br /><br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>FYI, I just spoke to a friend who won several of the D304s and he was NOT the consignor.<br />JimB

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Corey,<br />You make some good points.<br />JimB

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"in general, i take things at face value until proven otherwise. no proof of anything has been stated."<br /><br />Andy, when you look on VCP and see a certain card in PSA 7 that has sold for x dollars, plus or minus 5%, ten times in a row -- and then it sells for 3x that is called circumstantial proof that something stinks. Unfortunately, it happens a lot in the baseball card auction world. <br />

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I tend to agree with you as to what Bruces were referring to. The responses that were the latest in this thread were to Jim C....From previous posting on the board it seems Bruce does care about the history and the cards, and likes them in high grade, whereas Jim C mainly cares about the # on the plastic and not the cards or the history, at least I have never seen any of his posts about those things........and I am not saying anything bad about collecting by the # on the flip if that is what moves you. However, when that number gets crowded by other numbers that are the same or higher, then the value will go down, generally speaking (supply vs demand)..And that was the basis for the latest discussion...best regards

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...You and I are on the same page. My post was in response to Jim C's effort to broaden what I think was the very narrow scope of Bruce's post to cover all high grade card, including 1968 Topps basketball commons in PSA 9 condition.<br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>larry</b><p>perception and # of people collecting a card is what drives the price<br />1952 topps mantles are hardly rare yet the price keeps going up in 7 or better MANY COLLECTORS OF 52s and Mantle<br />there are at least 50 t206 wagners and in poor 1 it keeps going up<br />PERCEPTION of rarity<br />amany many examples of these kind of prices<br />yet when a card is rare like 1961 dice game less then 5 in existence or 1967 stand ups thick version less than 10<br />even when it comes to mantle the price doesnt really move<br />not many collectors and not widespread knowledge of the issues<br />Id rather have a set of dice games then a set of 52s anytime<br />if money was no object<br />

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Fandango</b><p>[img]<img src="http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/3/3a/YakovSmirnoff.jpg">[/img]<br /><br /><br />is that Mr Mint in his Glory Days?

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Corey the way I read it was since the seller of the (D304's) <br />did not win the item he was freeing the cash up for he would buy back his D304's at any price.<br /><br />I think that was what JK was insinuating.<br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br />Edited for clarity.<br /><br />

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Andrew</b><p>What do people think of the Pacific Coast Biscuit Peckinpaugh PSA 7 hammer price, which was $3614 before the juice? Demand for PCL is very high these past few years, so I thought a NM example would have fetched much more.<br><br>"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>andy becker</b><p>"Andy, when you look on VCP and see a certain card in PSA 7 that has sold for x dollars, plus or minus 5%, ten times in a row -- and then it sells for 3x that is called circumstantial proof that something stinks. Unfortunately, it happens a lot in the baseball card auction world."<br /><br />jeff, i think your example is illustrating one of two things. <br />1. "must have" thinking on the part of two bidders (silly snipes come to mind)<br />2. two bidder not aware of market value<br /><br />both occur in auctions. <br /><br />could it be a sham? sure it could. anything is possible. but that example, even if there are numerous similar examples, does not lead me to believe that it was a crooked auction. <br /><br />collector's focus will change. some pop in and some pop out, that's what i was talking about when i said timing is everything in an auction.<br />

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>there has been a STEEP drop-off in T-206 PSA 8 cards over the past 12 months. This has been felt in PSA 5-7 cards, too, but many of the low population T-206 commons in PSA 8 have not been hitting fairly stagnant [or declining] asking prices for some time now.<br /><br />For example, in the latest Mastro auction, a T-206 PSA 8.5 NM/MT+, population one with none graded higher only hit $4k. I remember people trying to get $10K+ for pop. 1 PSA 8 commons from T-206 in '06 and '07.<br /><br />So it is not a broad-felt appreciation, from my perspective.

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Bruce Dorskind</b><p>This has been an interesting thread with a wide range of perspectives.<br /><br />Our original comment on rare ultra high grades was limited to pre World War II<br />cards. Whilst many Topps cards command very high prices- the population is always<br />changing and, in some cases, an event will occur which will affect value- such as a <br />player being admitted to the Hall of Fame or a "find"<br /><br />This is generally not the case with pre-war high grade type cards. <br />In our view, T 206s are a world on to themselves Whilst there are<br />probably more than 1000 collectors of the T206 set, there are probably less <br />than 10 who collect PSA 7 and above. At least 15% of the cards in the<br />set have only 1 or 2 examples that grade 8 or above. <br /><br />Unlike other sets, there are dozens of T 206s of minor leaguers who have very few name<br />recognition and completing the set is a massive exercise. For type collectors, regardless<br />of the grade T 206 is easy. <br /><br />When large group of cards appears at once (i.e. Steve Novella earlier this summer) and many of the cards<br />have unrealistically high reserves it is not surprising to see a negative impact on pricing.<br /><br />Cracker Jacks, to a lesser extent, are subject to flat or downward pricing because there are large number of high grade cards available- most 1915 CJs, even in PSA 8 are not rare.<br /><br />Other sets like E 93, E 94 R333, R328 are rare or relatively rare i ultra high grades.<br />When a HOF is auctioned- prices almost rise with each subsequent auction.<br /><br />Finally, the "through the roof prices" that certain HOF cards realize can often be traced to the three whales<br />and a dozen other specialized collectors. As long as this "special population" of $1 million a year <br />spenders remains in the 10-25 person range, prices will remain very strong. If two-five whales and baby whales lose interest the way Copeland and others have then you may witness a very different scenario.<br /><br />Enjoy whatever you collect<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List<br />

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>LetsGoBucs</b><p>Finally, the "through the roof prices" that certain HOF cards realize can often be traced to the three whales<br />and a dozen other specialized collectors. As long as this "special population" of $1 million a year <br />spenders remains in the 10-25 person range, prices will remain very strong. If two-five whales and baby whales lose interest the way Copeland and others have then you may witness a very different scenario.<br />----------------------------<br />We've had this thread in similar forms many times. I think this statement above shows why there is more "risk" with high grade baseball cards. I agree that as long as there are the 10-20 individuals putting seven figures into cards every year that there will be appreciation in card prices for the "best".<br /><br />But if you compare those 10-20 to art collectors, or stamp collectors, or coin collectors then suddenly there is a different perspective. The main question to ask is....Will there be more or less seven figure collectors in the future? Personally I think there will be less. I can remember in the early 90's where basically there were no buyers of most material over $5000. I also remember the flight of investors from Stamps in the late 1970's/early 80's and I believe we will see the same thing in baseball cards. <br /><br />My own opinion is that the best investment is a combination of true rarity combined with popularity (ie HOF), and that condition is third on that list. But the nice thing about this debate is that time will tell <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>T206 Guy--I did say vintage sportscards--you may consider 1968 vintage but I don't.

There's Real Dough Is In Rare Ultra High Condition Cards
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>There are also some very interested very rich collectors out there who pay a lot for cards. I am dubious of the claimed results from some of the auctioneers out there; others not. Perhaps what we need are more live auctions so everyone can see the bidding under way?<br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc