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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>"I can still picture that phone call, all these years later."<br /><br />Oh yeah Barry....what were you wearing when he called, and what was playing on the radio....
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>It would be nice if the before and after pictures were provided. Ok, we have the after picture...
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I was wearing my thong underwear, and the Ramones "I Wanna be Sedated" was on the radio. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>"I don't think there are too many people who understand the nuances of the set better than Ted, and I know how hard he has worked to accumulate that knowledge. How about a tip of the hat to my buddy Ted Z!"<br /><br />Agreed! Thanks for all your work and research Ted.<br />JimB
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>You all are just too nice......I was the "dufus", who was the ignorant one on this extra Plank back, yet you were kind.<br />Wow, this is a great forum of people.<br /><br />JOANN<br /><br />Barry says I have a "near photographic memory", perhaps. However, I attribute my ability to recall all this stuff to my<br /> mathematical mind. And yes, most of the time I...."can pop these posts off the top of my head at the keyboard".<br /> I really appreciate your kind words.<br /><br />BARRY<br /><br />Here is what I remember from that call I placed to you back in the Spring of '83, I demanded......<br /><br />"I want your Bowman's ! ....I'll buy them all ! ....especially your Richie (Ashburn) ! ....your Duke (Snider) ! ....your Jackie<br /> (Robinson) ! ....your Satchell (Paige) ! ....how much do you want for them ! ?<br /><br />Ha......what movie scene is this scenario a take off on ? ?<br />Hint, it's main characters were the "Chicago Connection" and it was cast there. <br /><br />TED Z
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I can't place it, but it sounds awfully familiar. Could I get another small hint?
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Jerry Rucker</b><p>Was Ray Charles in that scene?
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Blues Brothers? Funny, I was thinking John Belushi.
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>That scene in that fancy restaurant is a classic Belushi act....the entire movie is a classic. Some really great movies in<br /> the 1970's. Starting with The French Connection, American Graffiti, The Sting, Blazing Saddles, Jaws, The Blues Brothers.<br /><br />What I really remember of our first encounter (on that Tel. call), was I first asked you if your Richie Ashburn card was<br /> available. Then you made my day by telling me how much you enjoyed the 1949 Bowman set article. The Spring issue of <br />BB Cards magazine just out and you were the first to give me feedback on it. Then Ralph and I received 100's of positive<br /> letters from all over the country. And, one "negative" letter from guess who....Keith Olberman. It was obvious to me from<br /> his remarks that he didn't bother to read the article. So I responded sarcastically, telling him to read it in its entirety.<br /> He sent me a 2nd letter with a "qualified" apology.<br /><br />Me-thinks he suffers from the well known "non-invented here syndrome", that affects people who are always skeptical of<br /> other's ideas....simply because they didn't think of them first.<br /><br />Gee, 25 years of a beautiful friendship.....Thanks for reminiscing.<br /><br />TED Z
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Cheers! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Dan P.</b><p>In John's post (3/25/08 at 2:09 pm) I recognize the handiwork on that aletered Plank photo--the work was done by Colin Clive.
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>"...I am surprised that Wonka bid $10,000 on this card in this auction. That's not a casual decision for most folks."<br /><br /><br />-Paul, the card is at almost $17K...<br /><br /><br /><br />"It should be either destroyed or clearly marked on the card as restored."<br /><br /><br />-It is clearly graded "authentic/altered" by PSA.<br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...that it wouldn't sell for a lot of money. Heck, it sold for $15K in Mastro last April in the auction I pasted above. <br /><br />Also, obviously PSA labeled the case "Altered" -- I meant that a card like this should have the word "altered" actually written on it, like the word "reprint." <br /><br />In any event, if you want a further explanation of the reason for my comments on this post, feel free to email me. I am not interested in continuing them in public.<br /> <br /><br />________________________<br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!<br /><br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>DUPLICATE
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Joseph Shirley</b><p>Hi everyone! I am new to this forum. I am a long time stamp and coin collector, but only been into T206's for about 4 years. I have been lurking around here for about a week, and have been very impressed with the knowledgable collectors here. I will definately expand my knowledge of T206's listening to many of you here. Just wanted to post a thought about restored/altered cards.<br /><br />I found some of the opinions that restored cards should be removed from the market and destroyed very interesting. I do not think that will ever happen. The best way to see how this will evolve, is simply to look at the postage stamp market. That market has been around a bit longer than cards, and is an interesting study to compare too. Because stamps are printed on paper and not carboard, many have deteriated worse over the years than cards.<br />Trimmed, reperfed, rebacked, regummed stamps are perfectly accepted in the collecting market place. However, it does require the collector to be carefull. Many dishonest dealers will sell a raw reperfed stamp as a non-reperfed stamp to an uneducated collector for a significant premium.<br /><br />As long as PSA labels this card as altered or restored (I do not see a significant difference), I am ok with it. As these cards get older, and Third Party graders start to run out of cards to grade, we will see more of this. It will probably follow the same pattern as their sister division PSE for stamps. More raw cards will be allowed into slabs, but will be labelled more specifically. The qualifier labels will be expanded. Slabs with altered, rebacked, trimmed, etc. will apear.<br /><br />In the long run I think keeping these cards available (as long as the are properly labelled) is very good for the hobby. As the supply of quality material falls behind demand, the prices of these cards will start to creep out of reach for many collectors. Many collectors will not even try to go after the monster. However, if restored cards are allowed, along with an expanded qualifier base to even the common cards; many people will remain interested in collecting. They can start to build the set or fill holes at an affordable price, and upgrading later when they are able.<br /><br />In reference to the Plank card, and comparing it to the stamp market. Most restored stamps only sell for about 5% to 10% of their un-altered counterpart. Super rarities, and this Plank qualifies could go as high as 35%. Assuming this card would compare to a PSA-6 or PSA-7, it does not suprise me in the least that many collectors will bid this one up.<br /><br />Anyway, just a thought.
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...on the parallels between baseball cards and stamps. I think you hilighted both sides of the argument quite well. As Wonka said above, we all draw lines in the sand when we collect what we collect. The fact that I am for removing glue residue and erasing pencil marks makes me less conservative than those that find such practices as unpermissible alterations. My line in the sand has to do with adding paper, color and/or substance to a card. But I agree, as long as the card stays in the PSA holder, there should not be any fraud. To me, the major concern is what you referenced -- such a card in the wrong hands has the ability to do some major damage. Caveat emptor. <br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!<br /><br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>Here may be an interesting question:<br /><br />What if this or any restored card was brought back to its original condition...rebuilt corners removed, added color removed etc.? Would you still consider it to be altered or restored?<br /><br />Kevin<br /><br />-------------<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.AlteredCards.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.AlteredCards.com</a> - an education on doctored cards...and more.<br /><br /><br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>My guess is that each person will have their own view of this subject. I remember when Mastro sold a restored Wagner. Later they sold the same card unrestored..(it had been reversed as you are saying) I don't remember the prices they sold for though. For me, if something was altered and then every bit of the altering was undone and couldn't be seen at all, then I would consider it unaltered....that's just me though...regards
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>to me it's like every time I place a filling...the cavity(the hole in which the filling gets placed) always get's bigger. So if you undo an alteration...it is likely that the card will be worse off than prior to restoration/repair. I realize that kevin is saying you wouldn't be able to tell...in which case I guess it's fine. Now that that's crystal clear...
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i am with Leon, if every bit of restoration is reveresed, i would consider the card, unaltered...<br /><br />IF i won the Plank, i would do that very thing...have ALL of the restoration professionally removed...
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>jamie</b><p>I think I might bid 18,000 and see where it takes me
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>I wonder if the reserve is higher than $20K. I am shocked the reserve hasn't been triggered.<br /><br /><br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!<br /><br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>99.0 % is a terrible feedback rating.
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>While I generally agree that 99% ain't great over a long stretch, here, we're talking about one bad transaction on July 5, 2004, involving a misunderstanding as to whether a car had been sold off a retail lot or not.
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>jamie</b><p>Hey my feedback is 98.5%<br />All my NEG feedback came as I was a buyer and the seller would make a mistake ... (and im talking about recieving broken video games and autographs of a totally different picture than what was listed in the auction). I would leave neg feedback and get one in return... so the feedback of 99% is pretty dam good when you think about all the A-holes you have to satisfy.... even the ones that screw you over
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Many of us deal in the pre-war vintage space, predominently. Anything below 99%, with more than a few hundred feedback, is horrible. HOwever I have seen where folks that sell less costly items (many/mostly for below $5.00) have lower feedback... best regards
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Ebay mixes buying and selling feedback when they really should be separate for exactly this reason. Less then 99% is bad for a seller, but for a buyer, when you get ripped off and you want to let others know by leaving a neg, you get one back. You didn't do anything wrong yet you have to go another 99 positive transactions without getting ripped off to counter that one. For those of us who buy raw cards, the odds are that more than 1 in 100 times you will get scammed and as such, your feedback will be less then 99% if you're helpful enough to let others know about it at your own expense.<br />Now, what was this thread about?
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Vanessa Phipps</b><p>Ok please explain why this restored card ( I thought that was taboo) is worth 15k plus? Am I mistaken or does restoration not make a card worth less? I just dont get it?
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>vanessa, you are correct, restoration makes a card worth less...if this card was actually in this condition without restoration, it would be worth six figures
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>24,700...fair price? I think so.
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i think so...if i had the extra jack laying around, i would have bid on it myself.<br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Observation: the card went up nearly $10K in about a year. Is that consistent with the increase in value of scarce pre-war cards, or is this an anamoly?<br /><br />Prediction: the next time we see this card it is either out of its holder or in a different holder. The temptation to turn a $25K card into $100K+ card is going to be hard to resist.<br /><br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!<br /><br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I'd rather spend 30K on a nice 2 than buy that altered card. And I agree with Paul that we won't be seeing that card in that holder anytime soon.
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>as i've said before, i have NO problem if the owner has the restoration professionally reversed and then if it meets a number grade, so be it...slab it accordingly (1,2,4, ? whatever)...as long as ALL of the restoration is removed, and the original (bare) card is once again visable, i have no problem. i am obviously strongly against someone cracking it out and "trying" to pass this off as an unaltered card...
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p><i>Prediction: the next time we see this card it is either out of its holder or in a different holder. The temptation to turn a $25K card into $100K+ card is going to be hard to resist.</i><br /><br /><br /><br />I'm wondering if that's possible. The corners can more than likely be returned to normal or could fool some graders if done well enough (although I imagine this would go straight to the top grader and discovered).<br /><br />The added recolor may be a problem. Removing it would lead to bare areas or paper loss. If left in place it should never pass a basic inspection. From the scan it looks as though the left upper edge by the side border line was recolored. Always difficulty to tell from a scan. For those in the know, is this correct? <br /><br />I've successfully unrestored a similar inexpensive card (rebuilt corners but w/o recolor) rejected as trimmed. The finished card was a very gracious gift and is now on display in a 3 holder. I still consider it to be altered and here is why: <br /><br />From experience the paper on all sides of each rebuilt corner would have been affected during the reshaping. In other words...added stock blended to the sides to connect the corners, then slightly trimmed back. These would need to be shaped to look like vintage cuts. This is an alteration in itself since it's trimming a trimmed edge. Does this make sence?<br /><br />What are your thoughts?<br /><br /> <br />Kevin Saucier<br /><br /><br />-------------------------------------<br /><br /><a href="http://www.AlteredCards.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.AlteredCards.com</a> - an education on doctored cards...displays and more.<br /><br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>It's April 1st......this card has become an APRIL FOOL's joke. And, only a FOOL would part with his money for this card.
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Good points. To ME if the "unaltering" isn't perfect then the card would still be altered. The previous hypothetical was based on all alterations being removed and not creating anymore while doing it.....again, just my opinion on this one...
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>that's kind of what my point was back a few posts, Kevin...albeit not easy to understand. I'd imagine to add to a corner you need some kind of lattice/mesh/bevel for support. Once you remove the added paper, the bevel will always be there. I can't imagine all alterations can be reversed so the change is undetectable...hence once the card is altered...to me it most likely will always be.<br /><br />pete ullman
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Click link below. Seems like the "underbidder" only went to $20,890, but that the "winner" chose to keep going until he triggered the reserve, which he did. Not exactly open market forces setting the sale price, since only one bidder was willing to move meaningfully over $20K. <br /><br /><a href="http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=280211764808" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=280211764808</a><br /><br /><br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!<br /><br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Seems pretty open market to me, the buyer had 24k to drop and the seller has 24k in pocket. The buyer obviously thinks this card is worth what he paid hence the reason he bid and won kudos to whoever he or she is. <br /><br />As for open market, there’s no such thing…these cards are only worth what someone is willing to pay you for them.<br /><br />Go try to sell Dan McKee or some of the old timers your PSA 8’s 1 of 1’s hell give you 200 bucks tops and that’s if you catch him on a good day. However Jim C may give you 10k for that same card, there is no set value for baseball cards; they are not stocks, or gold bouillon. <br /><br />An ounce of gold has a set value within a few dollars, but a T206 Eddie Plank restored or not doesn't, just a ballpark value….which is ironic if you think about it.<br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...turned out to be a fixed price sale, with only one person willing to pay over $20,890, as opposed to an ebay final sale. Even in the ebay context, you never know what the highest price the winner would be willing to pay would be, you only know what the second highest price would be.<br /><br />For me, I'm trying to figure out how much the market has moved for this particular card, which sold at auction for about $15K with juice last April. Theoretically, if the winner resold his Plank on ebay today, it should not go higher than $20,890. But I understand fully the concept that a card is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. <br /><br />Perhaps all we have learned is that there are several more people that are interested in spending more than $15K on an Eddie Plank card than there were last year at this time. For that reason, I deduce that the market for Planks has gone up. <br><br>_ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ <u> </u> _ _ <br /><br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!<br /><br />
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T206 PSA PLANK Just listed for sale!
Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>congratulations.
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