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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Steve, ebay allows for such a transaction even though it does not get any fees?
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Joann;<br /><br />Good and fair points as always.<br /><br />“So if I were somehow adivising Paul through this process and was going to bear at least some responsibility for his outcome, I don't think I could - in good conscience - tell him to let the auction run its course even though I personally think no auctions should end early. There would be just too high of a chance that someone else would get it ended early, and his chance could be gone forever.”<br /><br />To me a good analogy would be “well somebody better steal this cash from the cash drawer since it’s already open, after all if I don’t take it someone surely will besides I need the cash anyways.”<br /><br />While I see exactly where you’re coming from and the double edge sword that lays within, one has to have some respect for the rules/guidelines set in place when it comes to these things if not then it’s a total free for all. Besides one cant always get what one wants when it comes to collecting, and as of late I cant count more cards lost to ebay Pirates raping and pillaging off line deals than cards I have won online. I think we have better choices than if you cant beat them join them. Just my two cents (which was my snipe on the card for the record .02 would I have won?)<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />John<br /><br />P.S. This seems to be a pretty bold statement being tossed around by folks in this thread.…(not pointing the finger at you Dan) , besides I'm pretty sure I know of at least a few others off the top of my head.<br /><br />“Besides James F. he is the only person I know that specifically collects autographed T-206's and I'm glad he got it.”<br /><br /><a href="http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=170179209433" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=170179209433</a><br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>Jeff<br /><br />Ebay allows for a seller to end an auction early. I believe they give 3 or four reasons.<br /><br /><br />They also allow for a seller to end an auction early, so an item can be sold to the current high bidder.<br /><br /><br />So, to answer your question, yes. (Even though the seller is using a loophole to accomplish his goal).<br /><br />Ebay is also used by sellers and buyers to complete deals outside of the venue for full sets that do not sell during the time an auction runs. Some 1965 sets (at least 3 that I know of) have been known to sell in just that manner.<br /><br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br /><br />edited for typos
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Lyle</b><p>I am not one to jump into these ethical discussions , but the seller TOTALLY lied when he stated emphatically that he would not end the auction early so he is not a "stand up guy. " . Paul convinced him to bypass his word and purchased his integrity ,shutting everyone else out of the opportunity to buy the card .<br />Maybe I am TOO honest for my own good , but my conscience would bother me on both ends of this transaction .BTW , no sour grapes here since I would not have bid on the card .
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Wonka, He and James <i>are</i> the only people I know that specifically collect T206 autographed cards. I'm not saying they are the only two people in the world. I am glad for Paul since he is one of the ones I know...And for the record I was one of those who never asked for auctions to end early, but as long as ebay allows for it I am forced to play that game...I have played the game and have not once been able to convince someone to end an item early for me. Perhaps next time I will show them my website! <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>John,<br /><br />I don't think it's quite like the cash drawer because in these cases the seller (leaver-outer of the cash, in your analogy) is willingly participating in the disappearance and believes he is acting in his own best interest. Not sure where the line should go, but I don't think I'd draw it there.<br /><br />I also really hate that the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality is emerging, but I don't know what else to do or what people should do. If only 20% of all collectors are willing to approach sellers offline no matter what (meaning they are not just piling on because they have to), should those 20% be the only ones to get all cards of sellers willing to shut down auctions? I don't know if it's fair for the 80% to miss out almost by definition.<br /> <br />If I could have the world any way I wanted it, there would be a way to shut down the core minority (the mythical 20% above) from making the offline buys. If that happened, then I think a lot of people would stop on their own, preferring to let auctions run to the end. I just don't know how that would be done. <br /><br />So I am glad Paul got this card - definitely. But I wish that the environment were such that he could have confidently and comfortably let the auction run, knowing he could have counted on having a shot. Who knows - maybe he would have gotten it for even less money.<br /><br />Joann
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Frank B</b><p>>>I also really hate that the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality is emerging, but I don't know <br />what else to do or what people should do. If only 20% of all collectors are willing to approach sellers <br />offline no matter what (meaning they are not just piling on because they have to), should those 20% be <br />the only ones to get all cards of sellers willing to shut down auctions? I don't know if it's fair for <br />the 80% to miss out almost by definition.<<<br /><br /> Prisoners Dilemna - Sounds like "all's fair in war and cards."<br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Whenever I see something I like, I always send the same message to the seller: "Please do not end this auction early. If you do decide to end this auction early, please let me make you an offer above which you have already received. Thank you." <br /><br />I really recommend it, given the current state of ebay and the competition for baseball cards. Sometimes the dealer/seller will give me a price, and sometimes he will tell me to go jump in a lake and sometimes I get ignored. But by doing this, I feel like I am never losing out on a chance to get a card because the seller is working offline with someone else.<br /><br />You may call this shady business practices, but I frankly think it is what is necessary to get some tough cards these days on ebay. Is it unfortunate it has come to this? Sure. Do I lose sleep over it? No. <br /><br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Jeff Prillaman</b><p>Recently we listed a Rare Tiger Woods golf card. I had a dozen offers within an hour of the auction going live.<br /><br />We made the decision to let the auction run -- but one of the offers was simply this <br /><br />"Please look at my bid history and feedback, I am a serious buyer, I will top any offer you have to end this auction early by 10%."<br /><br />Now of course this buyer was nowhere to be found at the close of the auction -- but at some level his email might have played into my decision to let the auction run. <br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>There is a huge irony in this business of asking a seller to allow you to make a better offer than whatever they received before closing an auction, whether by X% or just a "better offer".<br /><br />If the seller says okay to giving an offeror the opportunity to top the otherwise best offer offline, isn't he actually running ... an auction? <br /><br />Just brings us aaaall full circle. <br /><br />Joann
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>....the seller has received such a large amount of hate mail today that he has decided to hold on to the card.<br /><br />I will not be getting it.<br /><br />Oh well.<br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>DR</b><p>Why you even 'bragged' about the purchase before it arrived is beyond comprehension?<br /><br />The outcome deserves you right!
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>Geez that sucks, sorry that you are not getting the card now. Do you still feel like this guy is "standup"<br /><br /><br />Now he reneges on what amounts to a handshake deal with you.<br /><br />Hie ebay handle does fit.<br /><br /><br />Steve
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>Oh and btw one thing we all can take from this is not to expose yourself before you get the item in hand.<br /><br /><br />Steve
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Did they even have ballpoint pens back then?
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Paul, that blows. The guy has started and stopped so many of his auctions, though...I can't say I'm surprised.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>Looks like a fountain pen sig to me.<br /><br />Steve D
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Talk about taking sour grapes to another level...Geez.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Glen Turner</b><p>I have posted a couple of times on this thread.<br />I am the only one to mention sending cards to PSA/DNA that I got signed in person that they rejected as Authenticity questionable.<br />Am I the only person in the world that has had this happen to?<br />Or can PSA do no wrong in everyone's eyes?<br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>I would not have gone public without card in hand, except that a material aspect of this deal was that I would publish it on my website as he ended his auction. Again, he wanted to put the link to my website in his ended listing -- as he did. And then members of this board more or less asked me to weigh in, which I did because I enjoy this community. I don't think I did very much "bragging" at all. Again, I really felt this was in the spirit of sharing that the seller and I wanted to bring forth. You can keep calling it BS if you want, but I won't.<br /><br />I do still think he is a stand up guy. He forwarded me some of the nasty e-mails he has been getting -- sadly at least one from a guy on this forum -- and they would have made me feel uncomfortable, too. I certainly would not have wanted to get those e-mails on Christmas Eve. And I am pretty surprised people would say such things, but c'est la vie.<br /><br />I am happy for all the free publicity my website got!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Glen, after the Spence/Sal Bando video fiasco I doubt many people feel very secure about any of the verification services -- especially Spence. <br /><br />Paul, you're not running for Mayor are you? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>I still dont think that Paul did anything wrong...the seller did, but now he has done yet another thing wrong after backing out of this handshake deal with Paul. If he is getting all this "hatemail", doesnt matter what he does at this point...his reputation is already damaged.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I haven't chimed in yet but I am reading this thread with my jaw open, and the latest developement has only caused it to drop a little lower.<br /><br />All these machinations for a freaking baseball card. No wonder I stopped collecting a long time ago.<br /><br />I learned a very early lesson- that despite all the warm and fuzzy feelings people have about the hobby, about the history, about the friendships...it's always has been, and always will be, about the stuff.<br /><br />And while I have always tried to conduct my own business as professionally as I am able, I am still only as good as the stuff I have.....Oh Lordie. This discussion is a lulu. <br /><br /> Happy Holidays to all.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Just for the record Dan, I now own exactly zero T206 autographed cards. I sold out in October to focus on other projects.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...my biggest loss was that darn Nap Rucker!<br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Paul- don't you agree that the seller getting hate mail for selling a baseball card early is a little over the top?
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>But it really doesn't surprise me very much. While most of the people that I have come to know through collecting would not do such a thing, there are some that would not be able to handle losing out on this card in a mature or professional manner. I believe those are the kinds of people that wrote what they did. <br /><br />At risk of painting too broad a stroke, the e-mails were not threatening or violent. They were just really pretty rude.<br /><br /><br /><br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>interesting development...i think several lessons can be taken from what happened here...<br /><br />for whatever it's worth now, i will share with everyone that i just got off the phone with a very close friend, who had a priliminary snipe of $11,000 on the card, and was logging-in to eBay to beef it up to $14,000...and he discovered that the auction had ended...needless to say, he is not happy right now.<br /><br />like i first stated way up top of this thread...it should have been fought for til the end...and won fair & square.<br /><br />Best-<br />MS
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Wow. This just feels crappy all the way around.<br /><br />Paul, I'm sorry you lost your card. You were so clearly thrilled with it, and definitely weren't bragging in my book.<br /><br />It's too bad someone had to go and do that - email the seller. I think most of the conversation here was very well balanced and based on genuine beliefs. I didn't get a sense that anyone was over-the-top angry enough to interfere with the transaction. But then you never know who could be reading or maybe even not participating in the thread but decides to make trouble.<br /><br />And please don't anyone take that to mean that I am referring to people that responded in this thread. John W and I just had a pretty good conversation about the whole issue - with many others also putting in good thoughts. I certainly don't want anyone to think that just because someone took a position against this auction ending early they should be suspected of having emailed the seller. <br /><br />I just hope that whoever it was from here was a genuinely interested party, and not someone that just stumbled across this thread and saw an opportunity to try to hammer this seller. I'm not sure I agree that it was someone that couldn't handle losing the card. I'm more inclined to think that it's some idiot that saw a chance to play big-shot and complain to the seller without ever having the interest and/or wherewithal to compete for the card anyways. <br /><br />Joann
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>The person I am thinking about is actually someone who posted on this thread. But it is no big deal and I would not out them here or elsewhere. He knows who he is and can deal with it on his own. <br /><br /><br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Though I wouldn't ever endorse sending someone hate (e)mail -- not just regarding collecting but for any reason -- the seller certainly opened himself up for at the least criticism by stating so vehemently in his auction that he would not end the auction early and then doing just that.<br /><br />I really don't have problems with eBay sellers ending auctions early -- although I've certainly been disappointed many times when it has happened and think it's not too bright of a decision to make. But in this case I thought the seller showed his true colors -- and his decision to back out of his deal with Paul confirms that -- by making a side deal when he assured potential buyers that he would not.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>"Even if the card went for $11K or $14K or $25K, based on what the seller is telling me, I am not sure he would have gone for it....I am not sure money was the motivating factor here."<br /><br />that's the funnest thing i've heard in quite some time...<br /><br />for the record, i could care less about this card (i have zero interest in signed T206's)...<br /><br />edited to say that i was quoting paul's last post, but he quickly re-wrote it.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...was that the seller has never been thorougly interested in parting with this card. And for him, he was very interested in being able to share it with the collecting public. As far as I can tell, for him it was more than just about money.<br /><br />Yes, when they say it's not about the money it is always about the money. But in this case, I think there are other factors at play in addition to the money. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"Yes, when they say it's not about the money it is always about the money. But in this case, I think there are other factors at play in addition to the money."<br /><br />Yes, MORE MONEY!!! <br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>If it really isn't about the money then he shouldn't have put it up on ebay for sale. There are other ways to share it.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Dan Paradis</b><p>I just read every response to this thread (I rarely ever do that).<br /><br />Paul, I really am sorry you lost the card.<br /><br />However, there is no doubt in my mind that the seller did not "reneg" because of the hate mail. <br />He realized that he could have received more money for the card. He's obviously all about the $$. PERIOD.<br /><br />Dan
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...to think that is not a distinct possibility. But for the time being, I am not of that opinion. <br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>I'll probably avoid this sellers auctions because he will end them after stating he wouldn't and then he reneged on the deal he made that ended the auction that he said he would never end. <br /><br />I've been on the end of a deal where someone ended the auction early and the seller received a few emails about the item. Luckily the seller was a "stand-up" person and kept our deal. <br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Just something to consider - the third post in this thread suggested the seller doesn't even own the item; perhaps that would explain why he couldn't complete the transaction...<br />Wasn't it suggested that this card was listed for auction on ebay a year ago?
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>The process simply isn't over. More negotiations to follow. Perhaps this was his plan from the start to maximize his sale price? Whoever ends up with the card is the champ, and all others should handle their being outplayed in a mature and professional manner. Negotiating to end the auction early, the use of a website to promote the card after the sale, the use of hate mail, the word of the seller constantly breaking -- its all part of the beautiful negotiations. All tactics welcomed.<br /><br />I hear the seller is a nice guy.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Paul,<br />I to just read thru this thread and do agree with Dan it is definitely about the Benjamins. If it was my card I would want to get the most out of it also. One point that I feel needs to be talked about is the fact that Not having the card in hand do you really feel it was wise to go on your web site and talk about a card that you really didnt own yet? I found that a little foolish. Unless you went and picked up the card and finished the deal and had the card in your hand I myself would have never talked about it until such time. Just taking it into context you had to believe there was going to be alot of people intrested in that card. (I for one am not just to let you know) and by going on your site and talking about it isnt that like rubbing salt in the wound? You had to think there was going to be some angry people didnt you? I wont discuss weather buying it off line was ethical or not because ebay "opens the door" for such pratices to happen. And it does happen all the time . But I think if the seller is such a stand up guy as you say then he should have realized that by you posting up on your site that the card was yours (so to speak) that this was going to set off a fire storm pro and con on the subject. I really feel there was a better way to handle the whole situation. But now I guess we will all see where this all shakes out if the seller does decide to relist the card. Sorry you didnt get the card but as you say if the card does mean that much to you then you really may have the chance at it to really put your money where your mouth is.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Brian, he's not nice. He's standup.<br /><br />As noted, the seller has started and ended and then re-started other auctions on ebay. He seems like a greedy kook. I think Paul is lucky to have had this deal fall through.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>The seller is far from a "stand-up" guy...what he is however, is a smart guy. Look at all the free publicity he got here as well as on Paul's site...the next time he decides to list it, he'll have a few more watchers.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>He's so flaky though he may end up with people who won't bid.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Jon Canfield</b><p>Paul - I am sorry to hear you lost the card. Also, as someone who posted on this thread and had a snipe in on the card (albeit at an amount a lot les than $14k), I wanted to note that I did not email the seller since this thread went up. My last email communication with him was inquiring if the card was no longer available for auction and when he informed me that he had made a deal with Paul, I then moved on to other auctions.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dan, I agree with you. First, he's a flake; and second, you've got an expert on here who thinks the autograph is a fake. That's not good for business.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I know Richard Simon didn't give his opinion on the autograph, but it's a bit telling that he chimed in here with his thoughts on Spence...for those that don't know Simon is a leading autograph expert and one of only I think two that passed HBO Realsports authentication test.<br /><br />But I would take Rhys Yeakley's opinion on autographs above Spence myself.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Glen Turner</b><p>T206 collector:<br />Are you still going to show a picture of the Johnson card on your website or do you only show pictures of cards that you personally own?<br />Do you prefer a signed T206 Rucker over a Bresnahan?<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Speechless the whole thing is just a bit crazy, as for the “hate” mail etc. to me emailing to kill a deal after all is said and done (good or bad) is as bad as ending the auction in the first place IMO. I guess someone else subscribes to your playbook too Paul perhaps he’s just a bit higher in sodium content?<br /><br />“When cards show up on ebay, there are no guarantees that they're going to make it to closing. No matter what the seller says. When those cards are once in a lifetime cards, you owe it to yourself to make the best run at it that you can. Otherwise, you may just miss it. And with this card, I was not prepared to miss it. Even at the risk of coming across a bit salty.”<br /><br />I guess you can find a bit of irony in this? You emailed to end the deal first and then someone ended it a second time via email. With that said if what you say is true and this guy didn’t want to sell this card before…he sure won’t want to now. <br /><br />Good luck and happy holidays. <br /><br />John<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...I'd be repeating myself and so I won't.<br /><br />I will gladly show cards I don't own on my website, if I have permission from the owners. If you or anyone else have any to show that I don't have, then please send them my way. I'd be glad to show them.<br /><br /><br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br />Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for my T206 blog, card galleries, articles and more...<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Marty Ogelvie</b><p><P>This is the craziest deal I've read about in a while. <BR>Sorry to hear it fell through for you Paul.</P><P>I keep waiting for Bill Parcells name to pop in here somwhere... </P>
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>marty quinn</b><p> i kmow this seller well, let's just say we had a deal on an item he e mailed me about, not ending an auction, but an item that i bid on and didn't meet rsv, we settled on a price, i asked to put up a buy it now,(for my protection) he said what for? someone could beat me to it! am i nuts, i said that's fine, if i get beat within 2 minutes so be it. guess what, he emailed saying he got a better price and was selling to the other guy, i could out bid him if i wanted, out bid what? there was no auction!! stand up he is not, a fasteddy he is, that's my opinion. with this amount of $$$ involved you would be crazy not to think it's something other than the almighty dollar. i bet the card is sold to another buyer. again my opinon. do you really think he cares where the card goes once it sells for thousands!!!
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Paul,<br /><br />Sorry to hear that the deal fell through. Really sucks if you ask me - particularly the fact that someone on this board felt the need to intentionally try to derail your deal. IMO, the person who did it is a coward for not coming on here and acknowledging he did it and nothing more than a sore loser.<br /><br />However, after reading what Marty just wrote, I think you might be better off. This seller seems like a flake and far from stand up. I wonder what would happen if, even having no intention to complete the deal, someone here were to offer the guy 20+k for the card - who thinks it would once again be sold?
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Jeff W.</b><p>Paul, it looks like you have had a pretty busy day! Sorry to hear you lost out on the card.<br /><br />Love the website though, keep it up!<br /><br />Jeff W.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Aaron Seefeldt</b><p>Is it me or are there more and more signed T206s everyday? I thought these guyse were dead...
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Brett</b><p>I'm sure alot of board members ask sellers to end auctions early and i'm sure some find some cards that aren't correctly labelled and don't tell the sellers. If the t206 signed Johnson goes to a seller that will keep it for years and not just buy it and then sell it a week later for make some cash, than I think thats better. I don't think these baseball players intended for people to take advantage of their autographs or cards for that matter to make alot of money on. I mean so many people just use these cards like currency and try to make a quick buck instead of collecting them because they like to collect. I don't think it was a fair thing to do because i'm sure many Johnson collectors would have wanted that card, but like I say, if its going to someone who will treasure it for years to come, I don't mind it as much. Its a real neat card and I wish i owned it ! I think i;ve just repeated myself several times but i'm tired :S
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I don't know if anybody caught the irony of the seller's name (this thread has already gotten too long to check) but Paul Newman once played a character named Fast Eddie Felsen.<br /><br />And it was in the movie The Hustler (and reprised in The Color of Money), and Fast Eddie hustled people out of their money. Sounds like this seller may be a Paul Newman fan.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>........and or a hustler.<br /><br /><br />Steve
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Now we know this seller had another deal he mysteriously backed out of - can anyone confirm this guy even has any of these high $$ cards? Does he hae any intention of selling them?
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>I just wanted to post a note regarding some previous cards sold by "FastEddie". <br /><br />It seems he sold cards that were PSA graded however when trying to verify the cards on the PSA website they were not the correct cards.<br /><br />For instance he listed:<br /><br />1) Rube Marquard PSA 2 - PSA label says "Portrait" but the actual card is not the Portrait variation. Also, the PSA # does not match when verified by PSA. <br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170174706987&ssPa geName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=007" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170174706987&ssPa geName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=007</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.psacard.com/do_verify.chtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.psacard.com/do_verify.chtml</a><br /><br />2) John Mcgraw PSA 2 Portrait with cap - Card in the holder is the Pointing variation. Again, the verification # does not match PSA.<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170174709004&ssPa geName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=007" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170174709004&ssPa geName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=007</a>
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>While looking at his feedback I came across 1 auction where he stated he was going to end it soon w/o a sale because he heard from a knowledgable collector that he was selling the lot too cheap. He was going to get the cards graded etc. Not sure if he did in fact do what his revision stated because it appears the lot did sell and he was left feedback. <br /><br /><br />He also showed a rare Plank card in some of his auctions yet the card was not part of the auction and was the subject of many questions to the seller.<br /><br /><br />The guy is a little sleazy in the way he conducts business IMO.<br /><br /><br />Steve D
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>As Jackie Gleason said to Paul Newman:<br /><br />"Now I know why the call you fast Eddie!"
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>the person who committed the most wrong in this situation:<br />... the board member who sent the nasty email to the seller.<br /><br />why? for what purpose?<br /><br /><br /><br />Paul - sorry you missed out on the card.<br />It belonged in your collection.<br />I have to believe that the seller got a better offer or thinks he will get a better offer.<br />I have sold cards to board members that I believed belonged in their collection.... and probably could have gotten more if I opened it up to others... so I feel badly that this one is not in your collection. But - when it is all said and done - these are just cards. Nothing to lose sleep over.<br /><br /><br />This seller is some piece of work.<br /><br /><br />edited a bit
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Dan Kravitz</b><p>The signature doesn't look like others I have see, but I am no expert. You may have just saved yourself a whole lot of money if it was forged. <br />Excuse me while I take some t206 cards in poor condition and try to forge a signature. I will submit to PSA in Chicago this fall and see if I can get any put in holders. I'll bet I get at least one of 'em. Stay tuned!
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>John</b><p><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/small/grinch.jpg"><br /><br /><br />Ok at the risk of being Wonka the grinch on Christmas what’s the deal with the overall love fest going on here? <br /><br />Let’s look at the facts, Paul openly admits that he will take whatever steps necessary to obtain a card he wants or feel fits his collection. Not now but one day perhaps one of these cards in his sights will be one your bidding on and want for your collection. Then what happens when he backdoors that auction and shuts you down, still group hugs all the way around? Still feel the card belongs in his collection, is his collection more important than yours or anyone else’s for that matter?<br /><br />Read the words from his mouth, now I respect the fact that he’s honest, but come on folks the writing is right there. Any of this ring a bell?<br /><br /><br />************************************************* *******<br />“When cards show up on ebay, there are no guarantees that they're going to make it to closing. No matter what the seller says. When those cards are once in a lifetime cards, you owe it to yourself to make the best run at it that you can. Otherwise, you may just miss it. And with this card, I was not prepared to miss it. Even at the risk of coming across a bit salty.”<br /><br />“I can take the heat from competitive card collectors vying for the same card.”<br /><br />“I never said I wouldn't have been outbid. On ebay, unlike most other auction formats, which give you a chance to extend the time of the auction in extended bidding, you never know what snipes are lurking in the dark. Hence my interest in ending the auction early. We'll never know if someone else was coming in higher than what I paid--but what I paid was higher than the prices discussed above.”<br /><br />“In the end, I can totally appreciate why there are unhappy collectors out there. But when it comes to signed T206 cards that are not on in my collection, I will make very aggressive pushes to get them. It is just about all I collect anymore.You may call this shady business practices, but I frankly think it is what is necessary to get some tough cards these days on ebay. Is it unfortunate it has come to this? Sure. Do I lose sleep over it? No.”<br /><br />************************************************* ******<br /><br />Once a week or so there are a multitude of posts on here about sellers ending auctions early and how much it sucks, never once have I seen people post “well its probably for the best the person who ended it, that card most likely belonged in his or her collection.”<br /><br />And this whole the card belongs in your collection stuff…give me a break when a card is up for auction it belongs with the highest bidders collection, nothing more nothing less. Can we say it would have been nice if good old’ Paul would have won the card sure, but these cards go to the highest bidder, nobody’s let me win any cards I need for my collection or cut me a break. I get them because I bid and I’m high bidder that’s the whole point of an auction. <br /><br />As for ebay and the above auction the auction was running just fine, Paul went backdoor shut it down snagged the card etc, then discussed this openly (silly) and in returned got the backdoor treatment from another collector and the seller. As for the person who sabotaged Paul. I’m highly skeptical of this and would love Paul to elaborate...but I have a feeling he wont. At this point while I appreciate Paul’s honesty and candor about his not so savory card obtaining practices I don’t in any way feel sorry or happy on this situation.<br /><br />The facts are simple Paul plays a no rules barred approach to ebay and getting cards he wants, so if someone else played hardball back…oh well perhaps this is a lesson that your method may not work 100%. I guess to quote a phrase that's all the rage he’s not losing any sleep over it…why are any of you???<br /><br />Nothing personal Paul just calling it as I see it.<br /><br /><br />edited aserisks to try to shorten posts...<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>When I need a card and its a must card, I would do everything possible to win it.<br /><br />This includes first asking the seller to stop the auction and I will pay a fair price; if that doesn't work trying to get him to name his price to stop the auction; and if that doesn't work start throwing numbers at him but telling him they are only good for a certain amount of time.<br /><br />I would find out what collectors/dealers that I am friendly with knew him and try to exert pressure that way.<br /><br />Most likely I would have bought cards from him in the past so I will call upon an old relationship. I would also remind him of buying power I have in the future.<br /><br />I would also try to find out what else he is selling and offer to buy other items he has for sale as well to clinch the sale.<br /><br />This is a competitive hobby and T206 is just scratching the surface of what collectors will do to stop auctions.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>on a personal level you know I like you and consider you a friend -<br />I just don't see eye to eye with you on this one.<br /><br />---------<br />"Once a week or so there are a multitude of posts on here about sellers ending auctions early and how much it sucks, never once have I seen people post “well its probably for the best the person who ended it, that card most likely belonged in his or her collection.”<br /><br />And this whole the card belongs in your collection stuff…give me a break when a card is up for auction it belongs with the highest bidders collection, nothing more nothing less."<br />---------<br /><br />my response to this would be:<br />If anyone can be so idealistic as to suggest ending auctions early is wrong (although not against any rules)... In that same context - why can't I be just as idealistic and suggest where a card belongs?<br /><br />An ended auction stinks for those interested in the card - no doubt. I dislike it when it happens. But I don't think the seller did 'wrong' by me. I think it is part of the culture of eBay.<br /><br />The same culture where buyers set snipes (an outside technology - playing on eBays timing feature) to get the lowest price they can on a card (at the expense of sellers). The same culture where a miscategorized items are coveted as 'finds' by buyers.<br /><br />This is not an ethical wonderland. It is eBay. Ending auctions early is just as fair as buyers snipes IMO.<br /><br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>So if that is the case, then what is wrong with someone emailing the seller (after it has ended and presumably sold) and offering even more dough? <br /><br /><br />Steve D
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>"what is wrong with someone emailing the seller (after it has ended and presumably sold) and offering even more dough?" nothing according to some people here, as long as it belongs in your collection,it's A-OK. <br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>if that is directed at me....<br /><br />I never said there was a wrong done by anyone in the purchase process.... even the person who may have emailed and offered higher $$$ to the seller (most probable that is what happened) - that person would have done no wrong.<br /><br />what I found wrong - was the mentioned - - 'nasty emails' that were sent to the seller.<br /><br />sending nasty emails? thats ridiculous imo.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>Yes Joe, my comment was. It was a question. Also, Paul later clarified his comment and stated the emails (to fast eddy) were not nasty, just rude (maybe)<br /><br /><br />The bottom line here is simply once the seller reneged on his public statement that the auction was not going to end early all protocols were off. Person(s) that had an interest in the card made off line offers as well. We have no idea if he made another deal or just got cold feet thinking he may have left money on the table. All in all he showed that he was not an honorable individual. Paul stated earlier that the seller got many emails not just one.<br /><br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br />edited to add: Sorry he did say they were nasty, the clarification to rude was regarding that they were not violent or threatening.<br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>I don't like the offline ebay deals that seem unfair to those that relied on a full auction, but I do understand why it's necessary in some cases.<br /><br />I think it's also fair for someone to email the seller after the auction is shut down and offer even more - even to the extent of causing the seller to cancel the original offline sale. I can't find a way to like one practice while disliking the other PROVIDED that the after-sale email was in pursuit of purchasing the card.<br /><br />But it's a whole 'nother thing when someone emails the seller to rail on him or berate him when that emailer did not have any interest in the card, was not trying to buy the card, and was not someone that was ever really in play for the card. <br /><br />I don't know why, but for some reason I can't shake the feeling that that's what happened here. Someone from this board read this thread and decided to use the opportunity to tell the seller what he should or shouldn't do, what is or isn't right, and how he can nor cannot act. Someone just wanted to bitch - plain and simple.<br /><br />So for Paul - I sincerely hope that this turns out to be a matter of "all's well that ends well". From what is emerging about this seller, it is starting to look like that although you may never know for sure.<br /><br />As to the person from this board that emailed the seller, I am in agreement with whoever upthread said he should come on here and own up to it. <br /><br />If the person from this board that emailed is someone that was genuinely interested in the card and was making a play for it, then come on here and say so. I don't think anyone would think too much about that. <br /><br />But if someone with no interest in the card read this thread and decided to take an opportunity to try to impose his or her opinion on the seller - no matter how shady the seller is - to me that is frivolous interference with a transaction and starts getting close to abuse of access to this forum.<br /><br />Joann<br /><br />ETA: Anyone know what it is upthread that is causing the need to scroll to the right? URL's look okay - not sure what it is. Can someone edit their post if it is causing the scroll-right?
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>to answer your question:<br />"So if that is the case, then what is wrong with someone emailing the seller (after it has ended and presumably sold) and offering even more dough? "<br /><br />the answer is: nothing.<br /><br /><br />but to send the seller a 'nasty' or a'rude' email is wrong. Joann has explained this more eloquently than I would be able to - so I won't even try. <br /><br />jmho.<br /><br />have a great evening.<br /><br /><br />edit: took out a line of type (could have been misinterpreted - and not what was intended)
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Steve D, you asked: "So if that is the case, then what is wrong with someone emailing the seller (after it has ended and presumably sold) and offering even more dough?"<br /><br />In many states, intentionally interfering with a contract between two other parties is actionable. Now, in reality, will someone sue a third party across state lines for such a small amount and with a less than certain ability to prove damages - unlikely. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>Joe I agree, and it goes w/o saying that sending nasty or rude emails is not a polite thing to do to anyone including this seller.<br /> <br /><br />I think I misinterpreted and that is why I asked the question. But I fully agree that sending emails that are 'nasty' and or 'rude' is not nice.<br /><br /><br />I think many people were pissed off that the auction was taken out from under them and emailed there frustrations to the seller. JMO<br /><br /><br />Steve
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Steve,<br /><br />But in those cases it would be completely okay and even understandable to email the seller, and even be irate about it. If people were frustrated that the auction was taken out from underneath them, then they were genuinely interested in the card and honestly had every right to voice their frustration.<br /><br />It's the recreational sideline spectator b!tchers that I think are out of line, myself.<br /><br />Joann
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>ErlandStevens</b><p>Oh boy, I hate to step into this mess, but I just can't resist. I collect more on the memorabilia side than cards. This signed T206 is really more a piece of memorabilia than a card (IMO). Memorabilia on ebay is tough because it's harder to price than cards. Both buyers and sellers are less certain on what the close will be.<br><br>I am an idealist with ebay. Auctions simply shouldn't be ended early for an off-ebay sale. Over time, I've learned that this is naive. (I still think it's right, but it's not the reality.) While I've seen lots of stuff close early, I've only been a part of the situation three times...<br><br>A little over a year ago, I was going to bid on a lot that closed early. I was steamed and sure that somebody made an offer on it. I admit that I emailed the seller and told him that he very likely made a bad deal. Furthermore, I said that if the buyer was willing to go off ebay to close the auction then I had no problem in going off ebay to make a counter offer. [In my heart I feel like I just disappointed Barry - sorry Barry.] The buyer replied not to worry because he had lots more of the same type of material. He did have some similar stuff, but not the same. I'm still convinced that the seller lost out. Of course, I'm selfish - I couldn't care less about the seller (or ebay). I'm disappointed that *I* missed out.<br><br>A few months ago a seller put up a lot with a nice item in it. Wise from my previous experience, I asked the seller not to close it early. Never, he replied. He later said that he was getting a lot of offers. Since he had much similar material, he put everything into one massive lot. I don't have a lot of funds for collecting, and I knew that I had no chance on the big lot. Within 24 hours, both auctions ended. The seller got an offer that he couldn't refuse. Within a couple weeks, the buyer came on this board and showed off part of the lot. I called him on it, but nobody seemed to care. I cannot complain too much. The seller held out an item for me and sold it to me for less than what I had already told him was a fair price.<br><br>Last month a nice lot came up, and I again asked the seller not to close it early. He asked what I thought it was worth ($50 was my answer). He said that he was getting a lot of interest and would let it run. Great, I replied. About 12 hours before the close, I placed a bid ($52 or similar). The lot was at like $10. The seller offered to close it for my original offer of $50. I said to just let it ride and figured it would go for $30-40. I ended up being the underbidder to a snipe.<br><br>I think that sniping is a source of the problem here. Snipes really leave the seller in the dark. For lots with a clear market value (graded T206 Cobb), anyone with experience in ebay can be somewhat confident about the closing price. For memorabilia with a thinner base, items of value can fall between the cracks. A lack of bidders can make a seller nervous, and poor decisions on an early close can be the result. Any tool that gives a buyer such an advantage is going to lead sellers looking to minimize a perceived loss. The T206 Johnson apparently had a lot more interest than the seller realized. In keeping their cards close, snipers can leave a seller feeling vulnerable. In defense of sniping, it is within the rules of ebay. You still have to be the highest bidder to win the lot. That's not the case with offers to close.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>I gotta admit I am a little surprised at how some people will freely admit that they are essentially willing to do "whatever it takes" to get the card they want. While I have first hand knowledge of several people in the hobby willing to do just about anything to get what they want (a little creepy and wierd if you ask me) but I find it strange those that would come on a public forum and admit they would throw out their morals for a card or two, guess that is one way to clean up the hobby huh!<br />
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>fkw</b><p>Im surprised at how crazy this post got. <br /><br />I thought that card was a $2K to $3K card at best. Shows how much I know.<br /><br />Wish I would have picked up all the signed T206 cards I used to see in those 1985-90s auctions.<br /><br />It seems like every single auction house (pre eBay) had one or two signed T206's, and sometime big (tough sig) names like Waddell, Mathewson, Cobb, Young, etc. I dont have time now to go through all my catelogs (I have over 80 packed away from my move).<br />Here are 2 scans from a San Francisco auction house I used to drive to and bid/watch all the time (Wolffers). Thought you might want to see them. I'll scan all the others when I finally get around to unpacking my books etc. and show them next time this gets brought up.<br /><br /><img src=http://centuryoldcards.com/images/t206mcginityauto.jpg><img src=http://centuryoldcards.com/images/t206chanceauto.jpg><br /><br />PS.Sorry to hear the deal didnt go through. Ive had it happen a couple times and know how it feels to a smaller degree.
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T206 Johnson psa/dna ended early????
Posted By: <b>howard</b><p>I agree with dan Paradis 100%. The seller thought he could make more dough so he reneged on his deal.<br /><br />Edited because Dan already posted almost the exact comment I just did.<br /><br />
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