Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Matt, while nothing really gets past most of these guys...it's conceivable that one or two items might get past one of these guys who may have seen this post. While not likely it could happen and I think that's why most people don't like to see any ebay auctions posted here until they are over.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Dan - is that a retraction from:<br /><br />"I've said it here numerous times, but I'll say it again anyway....It is impossible to out an ebay auction that is listed in the correct category. Is there anyone here who somehow missed this auction while perusing the pre-1930 category? or while doing regular searches for "Ty Cobb"?"<br /><br />One other question, it seems the argument for not outing shilling is that if you win something for an amount you were willing to pay, what's the difference. Personally, I don't ever want to do business or support dishonest business, so I would prefer to know about it and avoid the seller. Who knows what else that seller has done once they are cheating an auction.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Matt, I'm not retracting anything...that's how some people feel...I do not. One guy ain't going to make a difference when hundreds already saw it. It's Ty Freaking Cobb. <br /><br />Now if you go outing a Nebraska Indians postcard then I'm going to be mad as Hell....I might even send you a nasty email in ALL CAPS!!! <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>bigfish387t</b><p>This idea of shill bidding should have been brought up after the auction had closed. I think the price would have went high either way. Scott, great card. <br /><br />My 2 cents

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Scot</b><p> Wow!, Just had a chance to sit down at a computer.<br /><br /> Matt,<br /> No hard feelings here, I'm happy with the card and price. <br /><br /> I just purchased this 1924 Willard's Chocolates #39 Ty Cobb as well. This card was owned by Jefferson Burdick (written in light pencil on back) and Buck Barker (stamped). I had a good Cobb day. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1193287851.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1193287886.JPG">

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>congrats on two great pickups.<br /><br />

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>"I'm happy with the card and price."<br /><br /><br />...in the end that's all that matters.<br /><br /><br />congrats Scot!<br /><br /><br />i think this should be a lesson for outing auctions BEFORE they are over...people need to be MORE selective doing it.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Scot,<br /><br />Both are great cards. Well done. And good of you to have no displeasure with Matt. <br /><br />As I posted elsewhere, I don't have that much of a problem with outing an auction outright. The auction is about the money the seller will pay, and that the buyer wants. It shouldn't be a hide and seek game. True, I'm tickled if I find something others overlook. But if I sell something I'd want all potential buyers to know of it. And if these cardprice sites are to have any validity, surely they should report what a card would sell for, and to remove that hide and seek factor.<br /><br />I understand that lots of folks are against auction outings, but I think that it isn't such a bad thing. If I know some collector is after some odd seldom seen set, say maybe he has a few 1913 Cleveland Indian post cards, and is after the two he lacks... if I were to see one on eBay I'd let him know about it. That isn't so bad, it helps my collector friend and helps the seller.<br /><br />Any of you guys collect 1913 Cleveland Indian post cards??? If you were missing one, would you like to know when one comes up? Oh yea!!!<br /><br />While I hope that stuff I want to win on eBay goes overlooked by others, I don't mind you guys outing any auction I'm in on. And it seems to me that bidders who are against outing are against it for their own greedy reasons, where they're wanting the item for as little money as possible. I applaud Scot's response.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>"i think this should be a lesson for outing auctions BEFORE they are over...people need to be MORE selective doing it."<br /><br />If anything, I think this supports the view that outing a live auction of a vintage card that is listed in the correct category has <b>absolutely 0 effect</b> on the auction outcome since there was nothing "outed" as several have already said. We can all speculate about more eyes seeing the auction, etc. but here we have an actual case where it happened and none of the theoretical came into play.<br /><br />I would hope others would do the same as I did in the future, if they have strong suspicion of something fishy in an auction. I'd like to know of any potential pitfalls when bidding on something.<br /><br />

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Matt,<br />It was just like I thought in one of my earlier posts.<br />Nice job on the cards Scot and an equally good response!

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Without taking sides on the outing issue, a sample size of 1 (this particular auction for the Cobb) proves nothing.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Rob - I agree. Unfortunately, we don't have any other data. It does, however, <b>disprove</b> the notion that outing an auction will definitely affect the outcome.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Matt,<br />I would have to disagree with that. I believe it only possibly proves that about shill biding. I believe it would have a huge effect on the out come if you had said I believe this card is "possibly" a fake or a forgery. Someone who lets say is a little "novice" about buying cards might have read your post and decided not to bid based on your statement. Which should always be backed up by facts before outing an auction. Why you think this? what makes you feel there is a problem with the card ?and always backed up by facts. Because as others have stated here if it turns out not to be true you will have one very angry seller! Rob is right a bigger sample is definetely needed before you can state that.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Al, you can disagree, but that's the way logic works. I said:<br /><br />"It does, however, disprove the notion that outing an auction will definitely affect the outcome."<br /><br />If you disagree, that means you believe that outing an auction <b>always</b> effects the outcome, but then you would have a tough time explaining what happened yesterday since you only need 1 case to disprove an 'always' statement.<br /><br />Now we can have a discussion about whether outing an auction is more or less likely to effect the outcome since a sample of 1 doesn't prove that either way, but you can't logically says that it "will definitely affect the outcome."

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Well after the others see the last few posts I guess we will let them weigh in with thier thoughts and comments and see if they think what you said is a fair statement.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>"outing a live auction of a vintage card that is listed in the correct category has absolutely 0 effect on the auction outcome"<br /><br />matt- an auction can be listed in the right spot and it could be featured on eBay's home page for all i care, BUT, the point is that once an auction link is posted here...1,000's of eyes (as someone mentioned earlier), will go right to the auction...and i think it is safe to say that NOT EVERY person knew about the auction or saw it...THEREFORE, it "outs" a live auction...and in theory you have just invited MORE bidders to jump in...and inadvertently pist off several people that were either bidding or watching the lot...<br /><br />gabeesh? <br /><br />you went on to say...<br /><br />"It does, however, disprove the notion that outing an auction will definitely affect the outcome...If you disagree, that means you believe that outing an auction always effects the outcome"<br /><br />"definitely"..."always"..."absolutely"...<br /><br />are you sure you want to use these strong words?<br />

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>MVSYNC - if you read what I wrote, I said it <b>disproves</b> the use of the word definitely and always.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i didn't interpret it that way.<br /><br />no biggie, Scot's happy, so let's move on...<br />

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Matt,<br />I just saw that you edited and re wrote the whole top of the post. The origional question you first posted makes a big difference in what is now being talked about here. I think you should put back the origional post.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>MVSNYC,<br />I didnt interpret it that way either!

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>here's what I said - as you quoted:<br /><br />"It does, however, disprove the notion that outing an auction will definitely affect the outcome...If you disagree, that means you believe that outing an auction always effects the outcome"<br /><br />I claimed it disproves the use of an "always" statement and disagreeing means you would be making the "always" statement. Not sure how that was construed to read I wanted to make the always statement...<br /><br />BTW, Al, your claim that I "re wrote the whole top of the post" is just slanderous. The post was edited one time (before Al even posted in this thread and while the auction was still ongoing, I might add) and I'm pretty sure all I did was ad a question mark at the end of the Title.

Live Auction: Standard Biscuit Cobb - Shill Bidding?
 

Posted By: <b>Al Simeone</b><p>Matt,<br />From your email you are getting way to wraped up in this post. It was edited and all I asked was I would like to see what the origional posting was. NO BIG DEAL. As MVSNYC stated sgt. hoss is happy lets move on. And for the record Im not mad at you! No smiley faces! I dont do them! LOL