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Posted By: <b>Mark F.</b><p>It may have been mentioned, but I find it interesting that Greenville, SC was also the hometown of the aforementioned Shoeless Joe.<br /><br />On another note, wouldn't the location of the cards lead one to believe there should be more SL'ers than normal?

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Shane,<br />No auction house in the world will do it for 0% commission and a 3% buyers premium. Aside from the fact that they all have standard BPs at 15-20%, they would all take a loss at that rate. What about costs of advertising, printing catalogs, webstite maintainance, keeping the lights on, paying rent, etc?<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>Jim- i know for a fact several of the big auction houses will do 0% sellers commission on desirable items...and "negative commission" on VERY desirable pieces.

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Posted By: <b>Zinn</b><p>I think he meant to negotiate 3% of what the buyer is paying as a premium. e.g. if the BP is 20% the consignor wants 3% leaving the house 17%.

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>exactly Zinn.

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Posted By: <b>shane leonard</b><p>Jim,<br />I realize that it cost money to do the advertising, cost of shipping, overhead, and cost to make the catalogs. However, is there additional costs to list a 1976 Topps unopened box vs a T206 Wagner? <br />You are probably right that most auction houses would not do it. I bet one would though. Mastro would probably laugh at the thought of it, until they found out that someone offered it or there were others competing for the business. <br />I know of a situation where Mastro, REA and Lelands were all trying to get the collection of a friend of mine. The collection was pretty close to 2M. The offers became pretty creative by some of those guys. <br />I would much rather see our friend here with the huge collection know what his options are, than to be given a 10% consignor fee by some auction house. <br /><br />SL<br /><br />What value is it to the auction house to have a collection like this? <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>shane leonard</b><p>Zinn- This is exactly what I meant to say. I know of one that would do it right now because I just got off the phone with him. <br /><br />SL

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I was contacted by one of our banner advertisers yesterday about having "Sky" contact them.....Since I need to remain impartial I would say call several/all and do the best you can. I can help with phone numbers and contact info to any of the banner advertisers if that will help. I am sure they all would love to have the collection to auction....I am sure all would be willing to give some cash advance and favorable fees too.....Hopefully this helps....

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>it has to cost more to list a T206 Wagner than a 1976 Topps box because of the promotion that you'd do with the Wagner versus the Topps box. The Topps box wouldn't be on page 1 like a Wagner would be. But......20% of the selling price of the Wagner would be MUCH more than the Topps box, so.....<br /><br />I'm sure you could get 0% on the sell side and you might be able to get some on the buy side. Negotiate the best deal possible. It looks like tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars of cards given the condition and rarity of them...........<br />

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>Can you give us some details about the collection. They're obviously not from a cigar box find recently. From a former dealer's collection? Old stock put back and forgotten? It's in the details......<br /><br />Thanks for jazzing us all up though.......<br />

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p> Mastro has been mentioned as a possible consignee. Considering Mastro just sold a Tin Top Jackson for almost $40,000 I feel Mastro would be a good source to sell those cards. I know for a fact<br /> they will travel to view them and offer a cash advance if you need one. The guy to contact at Mastro is Pete Calderon. I know Peter Calderon of Mastro quite well (he was "petecld" on this board) and I'm sure he would like the chance to discuss the collection. He is well known for his honesty and straight forwardness. His email is pcalderon@mastroauctions.com or call him at 630-472-1200.<br />P.S. I have no ties to Mastro whatsoever, I just know Pete through the hobby as a buyer, seller, and also as someone who is reliable and honest.<br />

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Can you give us some details about the collection. They're obviously not from a cigar box find recently. From a former dealer's collection? Old stock put back and forgotten? It's in the details......<br /><br />Thanks for jazzing us all up though.......<br /><br /><br /><br />Check over on the "how to find an honest appraiser" thread...I can't believe what a stir I've caused with one little post.....

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>somone rushing your 737 cockpit door if I could compare it for you..........<br />

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Posted By: <b>Steve f</b><p>Skydash,<br /><br />Lots of good advice here. <br /><br />Unless you're in dire straits... I wouldn't sell any rare stuff.<br /><br />An example, I bought a tough card last year for $1000. My Everything wanted to strangle me. Recently recieved an offer for $7000. Now, she's glad I bought the thing.<br /><br />True, small potatoes to what you have, but your $50K Joe Jax will do likewise.<br /><br />My $.02, Stuff 'em in a safe deposit box. If you have to, rent a trailer, work at Walmart eat franks & beans, Kraft mac & cheese etc. In a few short years, you'll be living high. But, if you truly must sell, You know by now Whom to consign with.<br /><br /><br /><br />Keep your eyes on the prize<br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186690359.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Trevor Hocking</b><p>Well I will have to say I have been working on the Colgan and Tin Top sets for longer than I am old as I am a theird generation collector and my Grandfather started this set many years before I was born. We have never been able to buy a Jackson or Thorpe and had only seen 1 Thorpe and 2 Jacksons before yours just arrived back into the hobby. This is not a small deal to our hobby. Finds like this is what makes this hobby still exciting. Remember you just found a item of a very impotant baseball player (Thorpe) that does not have many items he is on and there was only one other Tin Top known before yours to my knowleadge. Plus the Jackson is just so rare. Now what is getting everyone so excited is that you have 1200 other cards that could have anything in there. These kind of finds are so rare these days with the internet and TV programes like Antique Road Show, plus to show up here of all places. Just keep the scans coming they are fun to see. This board has many great contacts and some sharks so please be careful with what you do with these cards. From the other posts you have recived great advise this far. I would personally go with Mastro with these items as they already have a great track record with the Tin Top Jackson.<br /><br />Good luck and thanks for bring them back into the hobby!<br />Trevor Hocking

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Posted By: <b>Chris Nerat</b><p>I would like to do a story on this collection for Sports Collectors Digest.<br />Thank you... You have some great treasures.<br /><br />Chris Nerat<br />Associate Editor <br />Sports Collectors Digest<br /><br />chris.nerat@fwpubs.com<br /><br />(800)726-9966 ext. 452

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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>I am still having questions about the collection but THAT is not what this post is about.<br /><br />All I want to say is, if you are NOT a collector then sell this group as fast as you can. You could have a fire, flood or someone could steal these things and then you would be left with nothing. Putting them in a safe deposit box would help but it is not a sure thing. Insuring them would involve cataloging each card and, at least for the more valuable ones, getting a good picture or scan of the front and back. This takes time and then there is the expense of insurance. Plus, how much would you insure a Thorpe or Jackson Tin Top for if there are so few in existence, especially if they are in REALLY good condition??<br /><br />No, sell them and if they bring what most here say they will, then get a good tax advisor and financial planner. If you are not a collector and these are just "things", it is better to spread the cards (and risk of something happening to them) around the hobby than it is to hold onto them in hopes they will increase in value. To use a couple of cliches, "it is better to have a bird in hand than two in the bush" and "you never know what tomorrow will bring". I mean, all you have to do is read your OWN description of how you acquired them; they were THROWN AWAY and you went to the dump and retrieved them. <br /><br />Just my two cents.<br /><br />David

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Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>Sky --you indicated in an earlier post that you recently inherited these cards ---I am just curious --how did the Probate Court value the cards ? Was there an Estate or Inheritance tax issue ? Maybe the Judge or one of the attorneys could jump in here with an explanation of how an inheritance of this size could pass without some tax consequences or considerations. In any event get a good lawyer and good luck !!!!!

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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>I encourage you to evaluate all of your options on an auction house before committing to the popular choices stated here. Nevertheless, since you don't have an e-mail address handy, we encourage you to go to www.hugginsandscott.com, call us, and we would like to discuss your items for our upcoming October 17-18th auction. Since REA and Sloate (two very good auction houses, btw) have been mentioned so often here, we would like to offer a further option if you so choose.<br /><br />James

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Sky --you indicated in an earlier post that you recently inherited these cards ---I am just curious --how did the Probate Court value the cards ? Was there an Estate or Inheritance tax issue ? Maybe the Judge or one of the attorneys could jump in here with an explanation of how an inheritance of this size could pass without some tax consequences or considerations. In any event get a good lawyer and good luck !!!!!<br /><br />I will neither confirm nor deny that I inherited these cards....<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Bill Stone</b><p>Ha ha --by that response I see you have already talked to a lawyer !! Be sure and tell her/him that in the the earlier thread( how to find an honest appraiser) on August 7 you wrote " I just inherited approx. 1200 206..." <br />Seriously, congratulations on the cards and enjoy them as much as we are vicariously sharing the thrill.

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Posted By: <b>Pcelli60</b><p>Relics, holy grails, and nothing this poor boy can afford.. I hope you do a little good with all that money thats about to come your way.

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Relics, holy grails, and nothing this poor boy can afford.. I hope you do a little good with all that money thats about to come your way.<br /><br /> I never said I was going to sell them.......just wanted to get some info on what they may be worth....

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>"somone rushing your 737 cockpit door if I could compare it for you.........."<br /><br />Oh....I've got a little something for anyone who does that...Google "FFDO"<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Andy Broome</b><p><br />We would love to tell your story and show your pictures in Beckett Baseball Monthly and on our site. <br /><br />Please contact me at: abroome@beckett.com<br />We will keep your name and info confidential if you like.<br /><br />Andy Broome<br />Beckett Media<br />www.beckett.com<br />

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Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>Federal Flight Deck Officers<br /><br />Nice! I had to look it up <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I may have mis-read Shane's statement (or it was not too clear). Sure some auction house would probably take this for 0% and <i>maybe</i> -3% out of a 20% Buyers Premium. I have gotten 0% myself and offered even better for cards I decided not to sell. By the way, it is not exactly true that the cost for auctioning a T206 Wagner is the same as an unopened 1976 Topps box. If the Wagner gets 2pages in the auction, and the wax packs get 1/8 page, then it is not the same cost.<br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Jeremy W.</b><p>Just curious, are you a basebal fan?

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>"I will neither confirm nor deny that I inherited these cards...."<br /><br /><br />I think what he meant to say was that his father-in-law has been "gifting" about $10,000 worth of cards annually, to each Sky and his wife, for... let's say... each of the last 50 years. <br /><br />That, plus the current Estate Tax Exemption, should cover them just fine. <br />

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Just curious, are you a basebal fan? <br /><br />Grew up watching the Cubs...Saw Ron Santo hit a homerun at Wrigley,moved to SC,became a long suffering Braves Fan(saw Bob Horner,Dale Murphy play at FCS) Played LLBB...So,yea....pretty much all my life.I don't think I'd have had the kahunnas to make my origional post if I was not a Baseball fan.

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Posted By: <b>Rob Fouch</b><p>Hi, skydash. Congratulations on this tremendous find. I've been pestering everyone I work with -- none of whom have much interest in baseball cards -- telling your story and even they found it exciting. <br />Anyway, I hope if and when you decide to sell, and the cards are in safe hands, and you feel it's OK to share information, that you'll give us a breakdown of what your wife's great-grandfather had. (Great-grandfather, right?)<br /><br />I just find it fascinating that someone could put together such a remarkable collection sort of under the radar. I guess it was a different time when he was assembling his collection. No ebay, or big-time auctions, etc. Probably a much lonelier pursuit than it is today.<br /><br />By the way, you're a pilot? My wife's 23-year-old son just finished up flight school and is now a first officer for ExpressJet, a division of Continental. He flies the mid-size jets. You fly the big boys, right? Very cool. <br /><br />Good luck with whatever you decide to do with the collection. It's been a blast reading about the cards. Keep us updated on what's happening.<br /><br />Rob Fouch<br />

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>By the way, you're a pilot? My wife's 23-year-old son just finished up flight school and is now a first officer for ExpressJet, a division of Continental. He flies the mid-size jets. You fly the big boys, right? Very cool. <br />Yea Rob.....737's.Beats working for a living,which is what your wife's son is now doing...alot. Yes......all things will come out one of these days,and it truly is amazing how all of this came together.

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Posted By: <b>Rob Fouch</b><p>Yeah, he's been working his tail off. But he absolutely loves it, so he's certainly lucky in that regard. I never knew how much went in to becoming a commercial pilot. They really weed out the idiots. Thank God, I suppose. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Yeah, he's been working his tail off. But he absolutely loves it, so he's certainly lucky in that regard. I never knew how much went in to becoming a commercial pilot. They really weed out the idiots. Thank God, I suppose. <br /><br />They really weed out the idiots huh?? You ain't met me pal. I'm dumber than a bucket of hair. Every time I pass a checkride I say "HA!! fooled 'em again"!!

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Ha ha skydash.....as long as your not flying in or out of Hartsfield International! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Jeremy W.</b><p>I'd advise you to pick out atleast one card to keep as a family heirloom. Auction the rest..or keep them. With all the great advice you've gotten here, I'm sure you'll be alright.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>There's going to be some major tax implications here. My first suggestion is to consult is a good probate attorney in your area. I just read that the guy who caught Bonds' 756th is facing huge tax liability even if he hangs on to the ball. I know the two situations are different but the frigging tax guys get you coming and going.

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>Speaking of taxes, that is why I would have NEVER made this collection public. That way uncle sam would never know about it. As soon as Skydash gets these cards graded, he will probably be forced to sell them. And honestly, that is a crime in my book by the government. If I were Skydash, I would only get them graded if I was going to sell them. Otherwise, I would buy the best fireproof safe I could find, quit posting on this board about them and just disappear.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Guys, I think Skydash has plenty of time to decide what he wants to do with these cards if anything. I know I've seen mention of "if your needing the money" type deal...but, if he is flying 737's he's not hurting for money to begin with.

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>OK - not sure if I have this right on taxes, but here goes.<br /><br />Assume that the personal estate tax exemption - $2mm in 2007 - will cover all or most of the value of the cards, so estate tax is minimal.<br /><br />Sky now takes these on the stepped-up basis - meaning that it is as if he bought them this year and paid current value. So if he sells them this year, or within a reasonably short time, he would only pay taxes on the increase in value from the time he came into possession until the time he sold/sell them (if he does). So taxes on a sale would be far lower than if he had to pay taxes on the face value of a sale.<br /><br />Am I missing something here? If the estate tax is minimal because of the personal exemption (I know - big assumption there), and he takes on stepped-up basis, it seems to me that there may not be huge tax implications. The only X factor is the South Carolina estate tax law.<br /><br />At any rate sky - see a tax lawyer, but it might not be all that bad. <br /><br />OK guys. Go ahead and ring in with any and all holes in the analysis above.<br /><br />J

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>Not my specialty either but I would think for an estate tax exemption to be applicable, there would need to be a specific bequest. Do we know there was one here?

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>I think that the sale of a ball card results in plain old ordinary income. <br /><br />That would not be true if it is a business, that keeps inventory, and buys and sells stock (as in cards, not shares). <br /><br />For individuals, basis applies to real estate, stocks.... a baseball card is not an investment, notwithstanding folks who want it to be one.

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>Whether capital gains or ordinary income (and on that front I believe in certain circumstances sales of collectibles are treated as capital gains), if I buy a card for $100 and sell it for $110, I can't see how the calculation of my "income" would not take into account my cost basis. Otherwise, I could sell a card at a huge loss and still have income if my basis were irrelevant.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>And I agree with your thinking. That is how it should be.<br /><br />But my understanding of the IRC is that the IRS looks at proceeds from the sale of a baseball card differently.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>If I inherit a chair that my Dad bought in 1960 for $100.00 and at the time of his death is worth $500.00 do I get a stepped up basis so when I sell the chair for $500.00 a month later I have no realizable gain and no income to report? Or does it even matter what Dad paid? Do I just have $500.00 in ordinary income?

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Laws of each state are different.<br /><br />I think the thing to do would be to have the estate sell the chair, if you want it sold.

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Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>I am assuming that Skydash inherited these cards from his Father in Law's estate. That being the case the only problem he has is that I think his Father in Law passed a while ago. He will owe takes on the increase in value since the death. His cost basis is the value at the date of death, since as Joann mentioned he will get the stepped up basis and it is more than likely that the whole Estate came under the exemption (currently 2MM). (even if the estate was larger, it would be the Estate's responsibility to pay the taxes, not skydash's) When/if he does sell the cards, he will be on the hook for collectibles tax which is a higher rate then normal capital gains.<br /><br />Skydash - If I were you I would spend some time getting 2-3 appraisals of what the cards were at the time of your father in law's death. These should be from reputable people in the industry. You will take the highest valuation, and make sure that you are comfortable with that person in case the IRS comes knocking.<br /><br />disclaimer : I am not an attorney and this should not be taken as professional legal advice, please check with your attorney before doing anything.

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Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>Steve - For federal tax purposes you have no gain.<br /><br />Frank - do you know of any States where there would be a gain?

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Some states have inheritance taxes. The feds tax the estate, states tax the inheritance.<br /><br />Basis is not automatically the value at the time of death, as stated above. IF the cards were included in the estate at that value, then you'd have that basis. IF the cards weren't scheduled in the estate at that value, then you wouldn't. <br /><br />And with that I'm done with any attempt to explain it. Folks keep wanting to say what makes sense or what they think is fair... and common sense really didn't permeate the Internal Revenue Code, so an expectation of fairness and common sense leads to disappointment.

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Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>Thanks for the clarification Frank. I completely agree that it would have had to go through the estate, that is why I mentioned in my first sentence that I was assuming that the cards were part of the inheritance, as opposed to a gift. I should have also mentioned I was only refferring to Federal Taxes.

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>To add the cards at FMV as of date of death. Then you get a stepped up basis. If the estate doesn't tip over the personal exemption level with the addition, the estate has no tax and the heir has a stepped up basis that will soak up most of the gross on sale.

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>"stock or something as they have prices on most, if not all, of them. Obviously, the prices at least on the Thorpe and Jackson are WOEFULLY incorrect. Neat stuff......."<br /><br />Actually,my Father in law put these prices on the cards about 10 yrs. ago. I guess he got the figures from some price reference guide at the time....<br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Sorry for the bump, but the search feature here stinks.

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>My great, great uncle was a collector and my family was lucky enough to find an album with several Colgan Mint Chips E270 included in my granparents attic. Anyway, we have about 50 of the circular cards, most in prestine condition. We have a Jackson (excellent condition but with a very small amount of tape on the back), Cobb, Thorpe, Baker, Speaker, Evers, Wagner, etc., etc. Would you recommend having them graded by PSA or another professional grader? Also, what about an auction source? I can take a digital photo of the Jackson if you would like to see it. Thanks in advance for any advice you may have.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Chad, post your email, please sir, or email me.<br /><br />Thanks.

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>Wow! I guess then that I have really hit the jackpot, because I have about 50 of the Tin Top E270 cards, including a Jackson, Thorpe, Cobb, Wagner, Evers, Wheat, Baker, Speaker, etc., etc. Most are loosely taped to a scrapbook (except for the Jackson, Baker and about five commons, which came loose) but are in otherwise prestine condition. Any advice in terms of how we should go about removing them from the book? Also, who would you use to have them professionally graded?

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Chad,<br />If what you have posted here is true, you are in the danger zone - what you do next can have a very significant effect on the value of the Colgans. If this is a joke, thank you. It was hilarious?<br /><br />If you actually have the Colgans in the situation which you describe, I recommend that you do nothing until you obtain and understand the advice which will be offered.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>If you really do have these cards and they are taped in an album, you need a professional paper conservator to remove them. If you try it yourself you will damage them.

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Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>on the same card by chance!<br /><br /><br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

What ever became of this collection??

The Skydash collection was auctioned off by Mastro a couple of years ago. As I recall, the prices, while good, were not off the charts. The opinion of the board at that time seemed to be that the rarity of the items hurt the value - not that many people collect Tin Tops because of the difficulty of finding them.

BTW, SGC slabbed the cards with the name "Skydash Collection". Once in a while you will see one pop up on Ebay.

Jeff

There were two Lajoie Tin Tops in the find (I think). Here's the lesser-condition example: