Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>Thanks for the info, Leon, but I have a question about the math. Seems to me that $300/banner ad per month times 9 ads per month earns a gross of more than $32K per year, and that's just front page ads. Assuming the other ads bring more, I gotta believe you're grossing more than $30K per/yr. on banner advertising, even allowing for cash up front discounts. <br /><br />Where I come from it is impolite to ask what other people make, and I don't care to know your personal business, but since the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, I do believe it is fair game to at least raise eyebrows as to impartiality under these circumstances. Count me as one who does not consider $30K to be chump change. I mean no offense and take no shot at your impartiality here, but the question seems to me to be a fair one.

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Good Lord, he said after taxes and expenses. Where I come from getting abused by people hiding behind a keyboard for 15K a year is grounds for being institutionalized.<br /><br />

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Todd, <br /><br />I don't mean to answer for Leon, but your number assumes that the ads are close to a sell out. I do not think that was the case in the last year. You also aren't factoring in taxes. Taxes alone will take your $30,000 down to $20,000. <br /><br />Anybody who thinks Leon is doing this for the money is dreaming. <br />

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Kyle</b><p>Here's our other options. Nothing against them, I read PSA's all the time, but I'll take Net54 for free, every day, thank you very much.<br /><br />psa message board (lots of modern stuff)<br /><br />board collectors society(rarely gets posts)<br /><br />sportscardforum.com(1960s and 1970s is vintage here)<br /><br />trading central.com(no thank you)<br /><br /><br />Many thanks to not only Leon, but the other moderators. Maybe Leon and the moderators should decide to abolish the ads, and charge a user fee for the message boards. Would that everyone happy? How can the entrepreneurial aspects of the hobby be so frowned upon. Every other website you visit has ads on it, and people who make their careers selling the ads, fixing glitches in the website. Look at CNN, ESPN, MLB.com. If the moderators really want to annoy us, they could make the ads pop-up ads.<br /><br /><br />edited links due to rules

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Darren</b><p>I just learned of these boards about a month ago. I have found answers to several of my questions and also purchased a few cards from members. After reading all the BS and bickering over the last 2 days, I think I will go away and let you children have at it.<br />Leon, if I were you, I would boot a few of these pricks.

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Mike Ocards, if you want to see the definition of childish, look at your first line and take your own advice.<br /><br /><br />Obviously, a lot of people that seem to think my behaviour is borish don't act any better themselves. <br /><br />Leon, what happened to the rule against personal attacks? Seems that the lurkers think it is OK as long as they are on your side and think they are safe from punishment.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>It's very difficult to protect you right about now. However, to protect the integrity of the board, everyone needs to have their full name by their post in this thread or be well known. Anyone not known needs to edit their responses, already posted in this thread, or put their name out here. In a little while (if I am still awake) I will need to edit out the comments if they aren't, it's only fair. I absolutely appreciate all of the support from the board and hope those that are only speaking their mind WILL put their names out here. Either way thanks so much. best regards<br /><br />Todd S- email me privately if you want to and I will tell you the expenses more in detail. Gross is a tad above 30k......I wish a business got to keep gross as all profit.... I could keep more revenue brought in but I can explain better privately...

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Adam</b><p>"This board could have been run just as effectively with donations from the people here on the forum and we wouldn't even be having half of these discussions."<br /><br />So why doesn't Leon just tell Jay how much money it takes to run the board annually and why doesn't Jay just pay that amount?

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>It's not about how much money is made. It's where the money comes from.<br /><br />Leon, you can't have a rule stating there will be no personal attacks and then let them slide when things get heated. Of all the board rules, this probably the one that you do not enforce at all, so why have it if you aren't going to enforce it?<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Mark Turner</b><p>What Jay is saying is....there was a time when the board had NO ads and did have a spot for donations. That way no one could say the Moderator was playing favorites. <br /><br />What gets me is Kyle just posted a bunch of message boards a few posts up. When Scott Elkins posted about the Aimoo board it was taken down because Leon did not want it up there. Which is fine but you can't single out certain message boards based on the person running them. I am a member of both and enjoy both, there is nothing wrong with that.

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Rick McQuillan</b><p>Jay, so it's OK for you to personally attack Leon, but when someone attacks you then it is not OK? Then it is Leon's fault because he didn't stop it? We have all read your opinions of Leon, banner ads, and Mastro countless times. You have made your point, now it is time to move on.<br /><br />My personal opinions-<br /><br />Leon - great job!<br />Banner Ads - I like them. One click and I can access current auctions and advertisers websites.<br />Mastro - I have never dealt with them, and I don't plan on dealing with them based on their recent reputation.<br /><br /><br />Rick

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Howard Rosen</b><p>In an earlier post someone wrote that Jay is a "contrarian". I agree. My dad is the same way...he loves to debate so he throws out unpopular ideas to get things going. This may not be Jay's intention but but it is what happens nevertheless. He can also be obnoxious and I think he realizes this. This being said, I like to read Jay's posts. When he writes about cards he is informative and when he makes posts that he knows others won't like he gets a lively debate going. I think it would be a mistake to ban him and to Leon's credit he has resisted that obvious temptation.<br /><br />Leon seems to do a great job as moderator but if he is taking advertising $$$ from auction houses he should avoid recommending (or appearing to recommend) one or the other publicly. A simple solution would be to send a private e-mail or to dispense the advice through a third party (another forum member).<br /><br />Howard<br /><br />

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>leonl</b><p>So you are saying I am childish and Hitlerish as I make about 15k a yr from this? I hope you weren't pointing your finger this way...but if you are please elaborate a little more....thanks<br /><br />deleted personal remarks from "keith"...he won't be playing anymore

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>These threads are getting really annoying...<br /><br />Leon- you seem to be an intellegent person, why do you feed into these comments? <br /><br />Let it roll off your shoulder...

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Keith- comparing anyone to Hitler is a pretty strong statement, and absolutely uncalled for. I would not take something like that lightly. I don't know who you are but I request you apologize to Leon and retract that statement. It doesn't not belong on this board or anywhere.

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Keith, I'm not sure which is more offensive: your Hitler reference or your inability to spell or use proper grammar. I'm going to vote for a tie.

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>leonl</b><p>I really don't care to elaborate anymore as we have had this debate several times but let me say a few more things.....<br /><br />1. Mark T- you are right and I edited out links....though at this point it would probably be better to ban Jay, go with the overwhelming majority of the opinion of the board (read this thread), and be done with him. You would if you were me and he attacked you the way he has attacked me. <br /><br />2. As far as being in advertisers threads....Mostly it's when one (Mastro) gets unfounded attacks and I ask for more proof. There hasn't ever been any, though I understand there could be investigations going on. At any rate I don't think I need to sit idly by why people get convicted without a trial. Just my opinion and as most intelligent people say "take it with a grain of salt".<br /><br />3. Jay- personal attacks aren't allowed. Why do you keep attacking me personally? You should even say that YOU know you should be banned for what you have done. You are very hypocritical though. All you see is someone making a buck and then you rallying around the "oh woe is me, I am poor, see how happy I am, and how miserable I can make life on this board for Leon"....You are truly pathetic. You add very little to this board and if I do decide to ban you I will sleep better at night knowing I have rid the board of an infection. You are truly bad for this board, imo. A pathetic individual for all to see...<br /> <br /><br />I am sure I will come back and add a bit to this but those are some thoughts for now....stay tuned...

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>Jay does (or did....and still COULD) make valuable posts but the VAST majority of all the posts he's made since the ads went up (and even immediately before) were and are negative attacks on Leon and the whole concept and execution of the ads. The ads happened and they aren't going away. The personal crusade is mildly admirable, but I've always heard the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. The results are the same. Leon's still here and so are the ads. <br /><br />This stuff goes in cycles and I'm sure you could chart it similarly to charting a stock. We get 2-3 months of peaceful, beneficial discussion, then the Mastro thread or the Banner Ads thread or whatever, and all Hell breaks out for a couple days. People who don't normally post--positive or negative--pop out of the woodwork, and then after it dies down, then shrink back to lurk. <br /><br />And if you're worried about personal attacks, get out the mirror.....a lot are coming from your way........<br /><br />

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>The Hitler reference is truly disgraceful. It's bad enough to read Jay's obsessive blather about Leon and banner ads, but that is above and beyond.

Leon has opinions just like the rest of us
 

Posted By: <b>leonl</b><p>No need for this to go on. If you don't like the way this board is run then leave. If you don't come here to talk about vintage baseball cards then leave....everyone on the board has a right to come here to get away from stress....Not have more of it. If Jay says anything else whatsoever about the ads he will be banned. I might ban him just out of general principle. If you don't like it ...oh well....No one should have to put up with a nuisance like that....no one.