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Posted By: <b>Justin</b><p>Why aren't Derek Turnbow and Guillermo Mota being criticized when both actually failed drug tests for roids?

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>or how about Nefi Perez, he just got strike 3<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>I answered both of those questions in my post above your posts. Fair or not, it is because Bonds broke the biggest records. If McGwire still had the single season HR record he would receive much more abuse for it today. I didn't say I agree with singling out just Bonds for steroids. But, I also didn't say he was innocent. There are many players just as guilty. If that makes him technically a scapegoat, then fine.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>I think of Bonds more as a symbol and lightning rod for the steroid generation than a scapegoat. But Jay has one valid point, how do you throw out an entire generation of baseball players? There just isn't a good answer.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>"I still maintain Bonds was/is a joke when it comes to defense in the outfield. Laughable or not, that is my opinion as well as many others."<br /><br />Didn't he win 8 Gold Gloves? Yeah I know they don't always get the award right, I know all about Palmeiro, but he couldn't have won EIGHT being a joke, could he??

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>I don't care what the man says - or any other baseball executive - Bud Selig and everybody throughout the game KNEW about the steroid use being prevalent. After the 1994 strike, MLB needed a 'pick-me-up' and steroids provided that. The fans came back for the homerun. EVEN MLB ran advertisements.."Chicks dig the longball". I think that was really when it started to get out of control. It has even been rumored that steroids were being used in the mid to late 1980's by only a few players.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>I think the steroid rumors about Canseco went back to the 80s. It was not too long after Ben Johnson was stipped of his medal, was it 88? The Fenway fans used to chant "Steroids steroids" and Jose would make muscles, it was great theater.

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>Rafael Palmeiro won a gold glove at 1b despite playing only 28 games there one year. MLB rarely gets the award right. I don't think you can just go on how many a player gets. Sadly, if a player can hit a ton, he will win the gold glove award - unless of course another player at that same position hit better. Sometimes the correct players wins it.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>I am interested in why you say Bonds was a joke as a left fielder. I can't say I have seen him enough to form a strong opinion, although the games I saw seemed consistent with his reputation as a very strong outfielder.

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Posted By: <b>Marc</b><p>The reason I say that is because he has - in my opinion - the weakest arm I've seen in MLB. And I can remember how the Pirates couldn't figure out where to play the guy because he wasn't that great of an outfielder. They tried him in CF and he didn't perform well. His arm was too weak for RF. Finally, Leyland decided on LF. If anyone remembers, it also wasn't until Leyland switched Bonds from leadoff to #5 in the order that his career took off. In fact, the Pirates almost traded Bonds to Atlanta for - I want to think Gerald Perry or Andres Thomas - because they didn't think he was going to amount to much. That was between 1988 and 1989. Between his struggles in the outfield, his bad attitude, and what the Pirates thought was 'lack of desire' to perform at his potential, he almost got traded away. Who knows what would have happened after that?

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Posted By: <b>Bill K@sel</b><p>Would you three children please take this to another thread!!?? I don't open Skydash's topics to listen to the three of you pontificate on Bonds and steroids or call each other names. Way to hi-jack a VERY exciting and interesting thread. (keeping mouth shut per Leon's wishes from going any further)<br /><br />Skydash - I just wanted to say congratulations on your "find". It's been great to read about how it came about and the unbelievable cards you have alread uncovered. Listen to what the "normal" people on this board are telling you regarding legal tax advice, protecting, insuring, grading, and if you decide to, selling off some or all of the collection. <br /><br />You have a great attitude. Don't let the infighting and bickering keep you from informing us how everything progresses.<br /><br />Let's get this back on track or lock it down.<br /><br />Bill<br><br>My personal collection - <a href="http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/</a>

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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>Bill- i was just about to say the same thing...<br /><br />GOD DAMMIT guys, take it offline, i am sick of reading your ****!<br /><br />now i'm pist. i'm taking some time away from the board, this is ridiculous!<br /><br />SKY- congrats, and best of luck. IMO, call Rob Lifson at REA, he will take very good care of you & your collection.<br /><br />Best-<br />Michael Sarno

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Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Bill,<br /><br />Thanks for posting what I'm sure many of us were thinking.<br /><br />Sky,<br /><br />I'll echo the congratulations that many others have posted and add that you've seen the best and worst of this board. There are many folks who are more than willing to share their vast knowledge of the hobby, and there seem to be a few who consistently need the attention to be on them. My only advice is to focus on the former rather than the latter.<br /><br />Good luck,<br /><br />Rob

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Ditto here - who really cares about Bonds. And if you do, this thread isn't the place.<br /><br />Sky - great find. Congrats. Please show more pics if you are comfortable doing so.

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Sky,<br /><br />I apologize to you for the pissing match tangents that this thread is suffering. Its sad this board isn't mature enough to handle a "find" of 1,200+ cards, of which several are extremely significant....<br /><br />Brian

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Mohler</b><p>Congratulations on a great find! I sure hope to see the Thorpe on the auction block! I am sure all of us collectors (and dealers too) on the board dream of having this happen to us too <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Jeff

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Posted By: <b>boxingbaseballgolf33</b><p>I have to say it was fun on the first day, after that the posts were getting out of hand. Good Luck with your collection Skydash55, we are always here to help<br /><br />Jimmy

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Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>Skydash, congrats! I wonder if you were to get the cards graded by SGC, if they'd tag them with "Skydash find" like they did with Lionel Carters and Nagy collections?<br /><br />Have you decided if you're going to keep any/all of them as family heirlooms (sp?) ? Either way, congrats!<br /><br />Rob<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Rob,<br /><br />I doubt SGC would tag those cards like they did the carter and nagy collections. Im fairly certain that SGC will only do that in very limited circumstances such as a collection from a hobby pioneer. As cool as this find is, its not quite the same thing.

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Posted By: <b>skydash55</b><p>Thanks for everything guys....I am simply overwhelmed.

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>congratulations and all the best in enjoying, in whatever way you feel is most appropriate and beneficial, this wonderful gift.<br /><br />Barry

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>If you don't have one, before you call anyone ... get a hold of Lew Lipset's "The Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards."<br />Vol 1, 2, 3 combined.<br />Practically all the info that you're looking for is in there.<br />Mucha suerte, that's an interesting find.<br /><br />To all others:<br />I apologize for all I have caused here in this thread.<br />Don't ask me how ... but I did it.<br />Just ask the moderator dude ... he'll explain it all in his best Texanese logic. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Back to Skydash.<br /><br />Don't call anyone, until you know more about what you have.....<br /><br />Best of luck in whatever YOU decide.<br />Joe P.