Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Charlie, that may well be true, but Leon, as a person that takes money from advertisers, needs to understand that when comes out and continually tries to downplay or dismiss everything bad that comes up about one of his advertisers, he opens himself up to criticism and loss of credibility, especially since he claims that the money he takes from advertisers doesn't influence his objectivity.<br /><br />Leon is the one that mentioned that he has thought about asking Mastro not to advertise any more. Given that Leon has close personal ties to them and finds it necessary to defend them all the time, it's probably the best thing to do so that he can claim to defend a friend rather than an advertiser. His only other real option if you continues to take their money is to remain quiet so as not to give anyone the perception that he is defending an advertiser. <br /><br />Leon will do what he wants to do. That's been clear since the day he took over the board. Most of the sheep here go along with it. I and other won't.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>First of all I started a new thread with this post so I deleted it quickly....I messed up operationally.....<br /><br /><br />Adam-If it's heating up again so be it. Hopefully the investigation will prove more currently than it has in the last year, with respect to Mastro. Can anyone show me where anything has been proven that they did wrong? I am not saying they did or didn't.....I don't know. <br /><br />Jeff- Of course you can be critical of Mastro...but I would hope you would have substantiated facts and not allegations to go on.....Also, I am sure you know the difference in defending and protecting....I am defending them as I have not seen a shred of evidence so far that makes me believe otherwise....I won't protect them though, as you know....<br /><br />

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Honest auto-bid should be mandatory. Why do auctioneers need to see secret auto-bids? <br /><br />Charlie<br /><br />Edited to Add: I have had many auto-bids in Mastro's auctions that were not close to being maxed out. I personally have no reason to believe that I was ever run up. In fact, I almost always know who the underbidder is.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>This is a bonafide class action here, guys. The FBI needs to establish the time frame of the auctions and the lots that were shilled. In other words are we talking about one lot or all the lots. Then anybody that won one of the auctions would be part of the class. If any of you have any questions on how a class auction would proceed, feel free to contact me. I've done a few in my time.<br /><br />Believe it or not, you are not going to believe the most expensive part of a class action. You need to notify members of the class. The larger the class the more money you spend on postage. Attorney fees normally come from proceeds of the award.<br /><br />The other aspect of this matter that is interesting, is this is a clear case of fraud. The Court can and will impose punitive damages. This type of lawsuit could bankrupt Mastro's.<br /><br />Peter

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>The funny thing is, you all crucified Steve Verkman and stated how "screwed up" his auctions are and that you would never bid on his items due to a problem he had with one item (the now famous Ruth Calendar). <br /><br />Instead, we are talking about one of the major auction houses allowing SHILLING. There are several of you that spend a lot of time hunting down shillers on Ebay, yet no one wants to hold Mastro to the fire on this one. If there is any validity to this and other accusations, then this is straight up BS in my opinion.<br />

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>DR</b><p>An auction house Code of Ethics disclure policy publicly confirmed in writing!

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>P Spaeth</b><p>Funny typo there Pete C.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Leon, sadly the FBI does not keep me in the loop in their investigations. If only... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Protecting...defending...it's all semantics. When you get right down to it, it's still the same thing and makes you look bad because claiming the ad money doesn't influence you.<br /><br />Even though I don't doubt that your personal relationship with Mastro is the overriding factor, the fact that you do take money from them makes you look bad in this situation. <br /><br />You can't have your cake and eat it too. Any time you chime in in defense of an advertiser, friend or not, you are defending/protecting them, plain and simple. Trying to justify it as something else just makes you look bad. <br /><br />You can't run a money making forum, claim to be unbiased/uninfluenced by the money and then defend/protect your advertisers. It's the reality of your situation whether you like it or not and you will get heat when you don't live up to your claim. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Bobby Binder</b><p>In regards to this "Honest Bid" in reality how do the bidders know or not whether the auction house can see what they have bid. There is no way that it can be proven and just because it says "Honest Bid" they are suppose to believe it. I think it is a crook..

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Bobby -- bingo! <br /><br />Until the auction industry has some sort of oversight, the crooks will continue to get away with all sorts of fraud. Sad but true.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p>Let's set some things straight. Here is the article from today's NY Daily News. It is new...it is real. It indicates that the company trying to recover the State of Ohio's lost funds has deferred their investigation to the FBI. The issues of consignor's bidding on their own lots and Mastro shill bidding are under scrutiny. "No comment" has been the FBI's and Mastro's response. I am sure we will hear more.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1183915593.JPG"> <br><br>Frank

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Frank, you are going to get in trouble with Leon, because the way the scan is cropped, it could be a July 6, 2001 article <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Since Doug has no problem talking to the media about the allegations I'm sure he won't have a problem coming out here and telling us that he has ZERO knowledge that the FBI is investigating these shilling allegations.<br /><br />I'll be sitting here patiently, hands folded, waiting for Doug's comment.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>You are absolutely correct. It looks as though the investigation continues, according to Jeff, who read it in the paper (I wonder if O'keefe wrote the current article too?). If Mastro, or anyone, shill bids then they should be held accountable. So far it's a lot of people talking about allegations...makes for interesting conversation....So far I feel confident .....no proof...nadda...just a year old investigation...

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Leon, how do you know that there is no proof for these allegations? Because no one has been arrested yet?

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think the whole Honest-Auction bid thing is overrated, and here's why: an auction is only as honest as the people running it. With my new software, as well as with my previous phone auctions, I have had access to every ceiling bid. Yet bidders still leave them liberally. And I have had lots go for half the max bids. Why? Because I take full responsibility for what goes on in my auctions.<br /><br />Business is about people, not about computers. Either you trust someone or you don't. And people either trust me, or anyone else, or they move on. It's that simple.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Randy Trierweiler</b><p>Jay, what is your infatuation with Leon? You've been dogging him for years, including sinking to the lowest levels of human decency in your posts. (MGW). Is it jealousy? Why are you so negative all the time? There is no reward for it. Why do you hang out here dogging Leon, and Charlie, instead of trying to improve your own board? (Congratulations on the 13 total posts on your board yesterday, by the way). I can't help but to feel sorry for you man, How can anybody be that negative for so long? I hope you find happiness some day.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />Well said. And thank you, I received my lot in record time.<br /><br />Charlie

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Nice to see the article was written by someone so impartial? Like I say, a year old reprinted article today, about a year old investigation. Show me the meat baby !!!!

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Hey Charlie- that's a first! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> We haven't had good luck getting packages from Brooklyn to Washington, glad we finally got it right.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>You are grasping...my lawyer friend. Not only can you not show me where someone has been arrested you CAN'T SHOW ME ANYTHING proving anything was done wrong....For the 100th time I don't know if anything was or wasn't... but neither do you...but please keep arguing (am I really trying to argue with a prominent lawyer?) <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> take care...and definitely nothing personal here. I consider you a friend.....

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Leon has made claims about the way that he would run this board. I've tried to hold him to those claims. He said when he first took over that there would be no advertising on the board. We see what happened with that claim. When started taking money for ads, he claimed that there would be no undue influence or protection of advertisers, yet we see him continually protect/defend Mastro.<br /><br />If I were in Leon's position and acted the way he has, I would expect people to be calling me out for not following thru on my word.<br /><br />The comment about the other board hurt. I think I'll go to my bedroom and cry. At least over there, if see any of the moderators being a defender/protector/apologist for Mastro or any other dealer/auction house you know there is no chance for monetary incentive behind our position since we will NEVER accept advertising.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Randy Trierweiler</b><p>Well Jay, I guess I'm just voicing my opinion like you do. I wish you well.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>"The last paragraph notes that one of the Mastro brothers was Rudi Guilianis' deputy mayoy....does Rudi collect cards....I smell a scandal I mean come on this is closer to a scandal then Libby's recollection?"<br /><br />Since Republicans are involved, you can be rest assured that if anything non-Kosher is involved, it is for the good of the country and nothing else. Anyone who believes otherwise hates America. <br />

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>As long as the rich keep getting richer and the middle class is destroyed, it's all good. <i>sarcasm off</i><br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Leon, I suppose the author of the article hates Mastro so much that he invented the current FBI investigation? I suppose he's so impartial that he allowed Doug Allen the chance to be heard in the article? He's not spinning in the article, Leon; he's just reporting facts -- the fact that Mastro is presently, and still, being investigated by the FBI for fraud.<br /><br />Would you go to a cancer doctor who was being investigated by the FBI for providing sugar pills in place of chemotherapy? Or would you go to him for treatment and shrug off the investigation and say "show me the meat baby!"? Not to suggest that selling cards is the same as cancer, but I'm sure you get my point.<br /><br />

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>P Spaeth</b><p>Your cancer doctor analogy illustrates my point, if you think foul play is involved, don't bid.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>I stand corrected, I am correct. Now Leon, the article is posted let people make the decisions for themselves. You and my brother both look like fools beating the same issue to death. I can not believe that you did not trust the people that said the article existed and that they had there own aggenda. You do a nice job with the board but we all have are flaws and beliefs (which not everyone will agree with) and we need to be our own person.<br /><br />By the way the other board is just fine you don't see off topic and quarrels going on over there. There is a group of over protective individuals on this board and that is why all the bickering happens.<br /><br />Barry, thanks for being reasonable in this whole thread.<br /><br />As far as lumping me with my brother, read my posts ( alot fewer) and read his posts you will find that although we agree on some things we don't always agree and I am more rational. <br /><br />All have a great day,<br /><br />Lee<br /><br />disclaimer: If this was posted last year at this date it is just a repeat and sorry for wasting your time.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>P Spaeth</b><p>I see no evidence of bias on Leon's part. The man is entitled to his opinion and I don't think it is fair to assume it is the result of bias, particularly where he has criticized other advertisers in the past.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Jeff pays to get the Daily News delivered to his home, and we're supposed to trust his judgment? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter, my point is that I don't know whether or not Mastro is engaged in fraud. How could I at this stage? The point is that the continued investigation of Mastro for fraud does give me (and any rational person) some pause.<br /><br />

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>David, fair point. I have no good defense to that charge.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I would be more prone to making a decision based on the findings of the allegations. I guess we can disagree on this issue..I am in business...You know how many times I have been called with allegations of something I did wrong and was responsible for, through actions of employees? Many. You know how many have proven out so far? 0 (knock on wood)..<br /><br />on a side note.....I did have an employee say they fell in one of my restaurant freezers. They got a lawyer, I got a lawyer. I told their quack in the box doctor I would pay until the coming Friday for her treatments. Guess what, miraculously on Friday I had an MD signed release for her to go back to work........again, we just think differently on this. Allegations and investigations are part of business. I am for less legal matters <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.....take care

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>The interesting thing (in this article) is that someone said that they provided a name of a consignor that bid on their own item. Is it illegal to bid on your own items? I don't think it's ethical but is it illegal? I've had a consignor tell me he bid on his own items in a major auction. Truth be told it disturbed me and from then on if I knew he was the consignor in an auction I would avoid the items. After that I was a little suspect about that particular auction house (who I will not name). I still bid in that auction houses auctions (not as much as in the past) because they do have good material. But it still bothers me knowing what I know about the consignor bidding on their own stuff.<br /><br />Some may say it shouldn't matter because they have to pay the premium if they win the auction but that's not the point. To me this has everything to do with ethics. If someone wants to sell something for a certain price then JUST SELL THE THING without playing these stupid games. Bottom line is that they could sell it for 15% - 20% less and still get the amount of money they wanted for the item. <br /><br />Even if there were laws about consignors bidding on their own material there are ways to circumvent the system such as having a buddy bid on the material. Same game, different plan, same stupid MFing a$$hole manipulating the system. <br /><br />If any auction house allows this then their ethics should be questioned, but then again there's the buddy system.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>As an attorney, I look for the problems the FBI will have in gathering evidence. Somebody should tell the FBI that it will be near impossible for them to make their case. <br /><br />The easy way would be for somebody to squeal. In other words, somebody who works at Mastro will testify that consignors were told they could bid.<br /><br />Without this direct evidence it will be much more slippery. We are talking about obtaining records of past auctions. The problem will be these records may no longer exist. It may be easy to obtain a list of winners of past auctions.<br /><br />However, we are talking about the shills, normally, the people shilling don't win the auctions. How is the FBI going to get a list of those that were second or third in the bidding. Also, you need to link the shills with Mastro. Neither parties have an interest in speaking with the FBI. So where is the beef?<br /><br />Peter

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>P Spaeth</b><p>Jeff, fair enough, but you also in the past have expressed concerns about Doug's acknowledged policies as to what they may do to "prepare" cards and the bottom line was that they weren't going to disclose that. So at some point it seems to me one has to make the tough decision either to stop bidding with someone you don't trust/whose policies you don't like or to bid with your eyes wide open.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>How do you know that Jeff doesn't get the Daily News because he likes to do the Jumble?

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Peter, you see no bias? He takes advertising money from them, has stated the his collection will be consigned to Mastro if he quits or dies, and has a personal relationship with Doug Allen.<br /><br />Nope, no potential for any personal bias there at all. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I remember when a woman tripped over her New York Times, injuring herself. She sued the Times for publishing newspapers that were too big. I always thought the Times should have used that suit in advertising. <br /><br />Though I find it hard to trust a newspaper that doesn't have a comics section.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>WE CAN'T HELP OUR ADDICTIONS!!!!!!!!<br /><br />That's why these auction houses are getting away with doing this kind of BS. We see a card and we want it. It's that simple. We fear we may never see that card again so we must have it. Jeff blasts away at Mastro (Rightfully so) but he still bids in every auction. I may be wrong, but I thought I read that Leon bid in Verkman's last auction. I even signed up for Leland's auctions after I said I would never do business with them after the Clemente airplane auction - although it was to bid in one of Scott Gaynor's auctions. I suppose if the next Mastro auction has a Nebraska Indians item that I NEED then I will bid on it.<br /><br />WE CAN'T HELP IT!!!!

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>P Spaeth</b><p>Jay, there is a difference between a potential conflict of interest and actual bias. Obviously there are circumstances in life (e.g. being a judge) where one has to avoid even the former, so as not to create an appearance of impropriety. But on a baseball card chatboard I don't worry about such things. Indeed, even if I thought Leon was biased, which I don't, I would just discount what he had to say. I truly don't see why it bothers you so much.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>P Spaeth</b><p>Dan you nailed it. I think most of us would buy a difficult card we needed/wanted even if someone told us they had trimmed it.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dan B is 100 percent correct. <br /><br />Peter C, if you are a practicing criminal attorney who has tried cases against the federal government and has cross-examined FBI agents I will eat my hat. Virtually every single word in your post is incorrect. It is almost uncanny how wrong you are.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Peter, why does it bother me? Call it personal integrity, or lack of it. It bothers me when people don't honor their word. I guess it doesn't bother you.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>P Spaeth</b><p>How did Leon not honor his word? By accepting advertisers in the first place?

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Doug Allen, are you lurking? Right now is the easy part, prior to the indictment all your doing is holding the client's hand.<br /><br />Heck I would tear the FBI's case apart. I would ask the bidders whether anybody forced them to make their bids. Were they prepared to go higher than their winning bid?<br /><br />I would ask them about the present market value of the items that they won at auction.<br /><br />Peter

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>looks pretty clear...<br />this is current news.<br /><br /><br />thanks for the heads up.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>P Spaeth</b><p>Peter C., you misconstrue the issue. I could place a top all and win the auction, yet pay more than I "should" have because the underbidder was not legitimate. So I don't understand the relevance of what you are saying. In the above example it is irrelevant thatI placed my bid voluntarily or was prepared to go higher.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Peter C, how do you know what the present market value is for an item if it was shilled everytime it came up for sale?<br /><br />edited to make clear I was talking to Peter C.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Peter, that, among other things that Leon has done. <br /><br /><br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />Is it possible that you are confusing, Honor, Integrity etc with you personal ideology? I think if you asked every person on the board for their opinion regarding Leon's integrity your opinion might be in the minority. I know you are comfortable with being a contraian but it does not make you correct. Is it possible you are attracted to Leon and this is your way of showing it?<br /><br />Charlie

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Peter C, your 'defense' above is not a defense to a charge of fraud. You'd find that any judge on planet earth would stop that "defense."<br /><br />Are you really a criminal lawyer or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I dig old, bald guys with glasses <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Besides, I think Leon and Scott B have an exclusive relationship :-p<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />Are you laughing as you type that or does it take a few minutes to kick in! I know I was.<br /><br />Charlie

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Charlie, I'm not sure that the tears running down my face are ones of laughter or pain.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>P Spaeth</b><p>Planet earth may not be the only forum with jurisdiction over the case.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"Doug Allen, are you lurking? Right now is the easy part, prior to the indictment all your doing is holding the client's hand."<br /><br />I just can't let this go it is so insipidly wrong. Peter, is this what you think criminal lawyers do with their clients during the investigation phase of a case? Or do you think they do anything they can to convince the prosecutorial body investigating their client that no crime has been committed? Randy Mastro is a good lawyer. Trust me, he is not just holding hands now.<br /><br /><br /><br />

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />They need to start standardizing the curriculum at Law schools around the country?<br /><br />Charlie<br />

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I'm not a lawyer, but my dad watches Judge Judy and keeps me up to date on her rulings. I consider myself well versed in such important cases as "Defendant borrows plaintiff's boom box, returns it damaged" and "Eleven year old gets sick on classmate, damaging Black Sabbath shirt." <br /><br />I remember the Judge Wapner case where a woman sued a man because he was too cheap on their date. He used coupons and they took the bus.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Judge Judy: If you're the defendent you're going to lose - unless the plaintiff can't keep his/her mouth shut.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />I am only going to ask you this question once..... did you ever have sexual relations with that woman....Ms. Coulter?<br /><br />Charlie<br /><br />Edited to add: All joking aside, I hope Jim was and is being facetious with his admiration for Ms. Coulter. Her rhetoric is indefensible by any politcal slant.<br /><br />Although, I do agree with Dan Kravitz...there is something kinda hot about her.<br /><br />CB

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>can you define sex? If you mean did I put that baseball card there, I don't consider that sex.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />If you DID put a baseball card in there, then it TRULY would be trimmed!!!<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br />David

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>On a serious note, I have never bid on or consigned anything with Mastro but their auctions always gave me some pause as far as the write-ups for some of the lots were concerned.<br /><br />I am of the belief that if something is hyped TOO much then something is fishy. The Shakespeare phrase, "Me thinks he doth protest too much" comes to mind. Why does an ultra rare or expensive item have to have sooooo much hype?? If Mastro were selling the PSA 8 Wagner (no comments about whether it is trimmed or not) I am sure it would be a centerfold with two pages of hype. WHY????<br /><br />Instead of the hype, why not just put a LARGE photo of the card on one page and on the next page just say, "The best there is". If anything else needed to be said, then it could be followed up with a history of ownership and prices paid for the card over the years. If an item is extraordinary, most people reading the catalogue will know it, especially if it is a centerpiece item and/or very high priced.<br /><br />Most everybody knows Babe Ruth, even the average man on the street has probably heard of him. These same people would also know that a bat that he used in a game is valuable. How valuable, they probably wouldn't know. But they would know something about it. A long and drawn out description in a sports auction catalogue with fancy and/or seldom used words is not necessary because the target audience IS NOT the average man on the street. <br />Now if it were a game used Babe Roof bat and the opening bid was high, then a long drawn out description with fancy words MIGHT be necessary. <br /><br />I am not a lawyer but I also use this system when I see defendents (or their attorneys) talking on TV. If they yammer on and on for no reason then I think they are trying to hide something or shift the focus somewhere else. I don't think that if they just come on and say, "I am not guilty" and nothing else. Kind of simple and naieve (sp?) but at least it is a start.<br /><br />David

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I have not read all of this thread because, frankly, it bores me. But I have a question:<br /><br />Why can't Leon post his opinion like anybody else on here? If his views are supportive of an advertiser, so be it. Who cares. If he starts deleting controversial posts or deleting views stated against advertisers, then there is a problem.<br />JimB

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>And that article has virtually nothing of substance against Mastro. People have bid on their consigned lots? I garuntee you they have done so in every auction house, including those with Honest Auto-Bid. They just do it via a friend in those cases.<br /><br />If somebody consigns a lot that they think is worth 20k and there is a minute left in the auction and it is still at 5k, if they would rather keep it at that price and are willing to swallow the BP and buy the lot for 5.5k, who could blame them, especially when Mastro starts all bidding at about 5-10% of expected value and does not allow for reserves?<br />JimB

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Leon's opinion was fair. He was essentially saying it was old news, and reposting old news once every three months doesn't make it new news.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim and David, frankly the only thing new about the article is that the FBI investigation into Mastro for fraud continues to this day. To me, that is news. <br /><br />And I'm not sure that buying back one's own consigned card is considered shill bidding. Shill bidding exists instead where someone else buys a consigned card that has been artificially raised due solely to the consignor's own bids.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- how often is a 20K lot languishing at 5K with a minute to go? That seems almost impossible.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>I actually find quite reassuring.....<br /><br />I appreciate the fact I know where he stands on such issues, and I can judge his opinion exactly like I do everyone else's on this board. With a grain of salt.<br /><br />How do I know what anyone else's stated opinions are affected by, and whether they are 'tainted' by an undisclosed relationship? Seems ridiculous in this instance to only judge Leon in this way...<br /><br />There is no big moral obligation for Leon to either have completely unbiased opinions (impossible to do and still be involved in the hobby), or be bound from expressing them. He doesn't influence what cards I buy or who I deal with any more than anyone else on or off the board - and if people as a whole tend to agree with his stances its because they seem more reasoned - and not because of any relationship to mutton <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.<br /><br />And per this article, it seems to me also that I read near the exact same opinion almost a year ago, and it too talked of 'ongoing investigations'. All I can say is it seems a long time amaking for a serious legal case based on fairly defined measurables.....<br /><br /><br />Daniel<br /><br /><br />Edited to add paragraph 3.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>..

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Richard Simon</b><p>Just to clarify: the bottom part of the article (with the full date) and the top headline are cut off due to the size of the newspaper being larger than my scanner. <br />The article was in today's newspaper.<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Barry,<br />I was pulling numbers out of my head, but you can imagine the scenario: A consigner decides, at whatever price, that s/he would rather eat the BP and buy the lot back at a certain price that sell it at that price. I am sure there are instances where consigners are not thrilled with prices realized in Mastro auctions, like any others. As buyers we often feel like there are no deals there, but sellers feel differently.<br />JimB

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim, and what if the consignor, whose card worth 20K is at 5K with a minute to go, bids and bids to try to 'buy' it back and then finds that he's still the underbidder at 19K because the top bidder put a ceiling bid in at 20K? And then he lays off the card. And Mastro allows this to occur because they allow consignors to bid on their own auctions. Is that still fair? Of course not. It's fraud.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>I think the article is news if for no other reason than it indicates that the FBI investigation into Mastro still has a heartbeat. It seems like a lot of people have serious questions about some of the underpinnings of the hobby (see other thread on the broken grading system). I get the sense that for the next few years a lot of people involved in the hobby will be holding their collective breath waiting for the house of cards to collapse as soon as the first domino falls (gads - I really love mixed metaphors!). The article is a sign that there are forces chipping away at the foundations. To me, that makes it current and relevant.<br /><br />As to Leon, I am with JimB on this one. He has a right to his opinion. I don't know that his opinion on Mastro is based on their advertiser status - I have no reason to think that. Regardless, he can base his opinions on whatever he wants - whether it be friends, advertiser status, or that he has a cousin that once lived on Mastro St somewhere. It doesn't really matter - he can voice his opinion like anyone else here.<br /><br />The line would get crossed of the contents of all posts were regulated based on the interests of the advertisers. I think that's what some feared when the board took ads, and to me it remains the only relevant issue yet today. So far I haven't seen it, and I've been kind of keeping an eye on it. Leon voicing an opinion that favors an advertiser is not the same as his doing something so that the opinions of other also have to favor (or not disfavor) advertisers.<br /><br />Joann

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>It is my understanding that it is common practice for the consignor of a horse to bid on his horse -<br /><br />openly not secretly.<br /><br /><br />If a consignor is not happy with the price he is getting - he just bids. Everyone there knows he is the consignor. If he wins his horse back, he is out the consignment fee.<br /><br /><br />When you think about it... its basically an auction with a real 'reserve price'.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Regarding Leon's pro-Mastro bias, my (perhaps unwanted) two cents: I happen to think Leon has tremendous integrity. The fact that he deals with this site with all the BS he catches suggests something about his personality. And if you know him at all, you know what a decent guy he is. And I don't think the relatively minor ad dollars he receives from Mastro tilts his opinion in any kind of meaningful manner. I think he is prejudiced towards Mastro because he knows the players involved and he believes in THEIR integrity. That's fair and Leon's belief about someone's integrity (or lack thereof) goes a long way with me.<br /><br />As for Jay's suggestion about Leon's receipt of ad dollars impacting his judgement, Jay is right in the sense that such a relationship at least has the appearance of impropriety. For a rough analogy, if one makes a motion to recuse a judge due to the appearance of prejudice on the judge's part against the moving litigant, often judges will recuse themselves even though they state unequivocally that they can be fair to both sides -- but for the sake of the system working, the appearance of prejudice is enough to warrant recusal. And for the record, I believe wholeheartedly in Jay's integrity as well. There aren't all that many people out here that I would say such a thing about but Jay and Leon are two of them.

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>Bob C</b><p>The fact pattern in the article is thin. Not enough substance there...yet. The bigger story would be Mastro bidding on their own items to create artificial reserves or get high prices. <br />It should be interesting to see how this plays out.<br />

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think Leon is walking a tightrope, and is not in an enviable position.<br /><br />If he believes in a person, and wants to support him, and by coincidence that person is an advertiser, regardless of his conviction there is going to be the appearance of a conflict. So if I were Leon, I would not hesitate to express an opinion, but maybe take an extra moment to think it all out before I posted. In no way should Leon's feelings be censored, but he has an extra responsibility as board owner; and likewise, he has to understand that because he does accept advertising, he may have to be more careful than others when wording some posts. That just goes with the territory.