Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>if so - that is contrary to what was said here (maybe an honest error - but pretty bad).<br /><br />

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>"This page, with this word for word guarantee, has been published on the csauctions.com website since at least March of 2005.<br /><br /><a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20050305035144/http://www.csauctions.com/html/faq.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://web.archive.org/web/20050305035144/http://www.csauctions.com/html/faq.html</a><br /><br />So there goes that defense...."<br /><br />What say you to this apparently objective evidence, Mr. Verkman? This appears contrary to your statement that the guaranty did not appear on the website at the time the item in question was offered. <br />

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Lundrigan</b><p>Thanks for the respose Leon I read something in a previous post that made me comment but I just didn`t have the STRENGTH to go back and re-read every comment.I tried to state my question as best I remembered reading it.I would also agree with the post from Joe D. Though I do not personally know them, Mr. Verkman and Mr. Haverkos do seem like a gentlemen in a tough situation.Hope this works out for all involved.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Refund the money.<br /><br />Test it yourself. If its real, you have a buyer. If its not, you would have to refund the money anyway.<br /><br />The cost to not refunding the money but getting your way? <br /><br />This thread will go to 300+ posts and many current & potential customers will become non-customers.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>jay</b><p>None of these individuals PSA, Mastro, SGC, GAI, Fogel are not Superman. They do not have x-ray vision to say that the actual orientation of the card is not authentic. Because they handle many expensive pieces (that has no relevance to this case). They never handled this piece which is the primary topic since it is a one of a kind card. It's merely an opinion what they are saying, not a fact because there is no proof. I am surprised at Mastro's statement-his last sentence. <br />You must take this card to a testing third party that handles world class documents for inspection. You are doing the right thing.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Double negatives are troublesome.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>No they're not.<br /><br />-Al

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Al, you're grumpy as of late.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>I've heard that. I'll try harder.<br /><br />-Al

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Steve M.</b><p>Nikdo nic nevyhrál. <br /><br />"Nobody didn't win nothing" a triple negative which is the way this is turning out. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>What is most shocking to me is that Steve Verkman is still holding on and still thinks he can prevail on this one! How can he recognize a fake card if he can't recognize when he lost the battle and the war? (rhetorical question). How does someone with such low business intuition stay in business as long as he has?<br /><br />Steve, for your own good, listen to what everybody here is saying. If the members of this board do not bid your auctions, you are sunk.<br />JimB<br /><br />Edited to delete an account of my previous bad experience with Steve Verkman. I decided I do not want to contribute to prolonging this any further, even if I am not a fan of his.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Steve,<br /><br />I can't speak for the rest of the board, but I think the overall resistance to having it tested may lie in what you intend to do with the results. I'm thinking that if it comes back as 30's on paper, ink or both you will conclude that it is real and call it conclusive.<br /><br />So there are these possible outcomes:<br /><br />1) Forego testing and refund based on expert opinion.<br /><br />2) Have it tested and it fails. Again, a refund<br /><br />3) Have it tested and it passes, but you agree that it is not necessarily conclusive and refund the money, possibly after further negotiation or whatever.<br /><br />4) Have it tested and it passes, and you decide that is conclusive. In that case, you would be giving the age of paper and/or ink more weight than the collective expert opinion, and actually giving that outcome veto power over the experts. <br /><br />So for me, the issue of testing comes down to this: It would give you the opportunity to deny a refund by taking a passing result and defining it as more persuasive than all combined experts. And you would be able to make that call because as of right now, you hold the money and Mark holds the card. This despite the many reasons given above that testing is not conclusive.<br /><br />So all outcomes lead to refund except one. That's a passing result that you consider conclusive even though few others would. <br /><br />It's just my opinion, but that's why I don't think there is a big clamor going on in support of testing. To help others support your position, can you clarify what you would do in the case of passing results?<br /><br />Thx,<br /><br />Joann

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The return guarantee is clear. PSA, Mastro, etc are reputable experts. Yes, PSA, Mastro, Lifson and Josh Evans have been wrong individually (as we all have), but it's unlikely they would all wrong simultaneously. Mastro, REA and Lelands are competing companies, and aren't in collusion. If one of those experts offered different opinion there would be debate, but they are in agreement. If Steve accepts return and after various tests the card is proven to be vintage, he can resell it.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Prizner</b><p>real, fake, old, new... whatever.<br /><br />bottom line is the customer service in this situation is horrendous.<br /><br />I spent over $5k in one of their auctions last year with no problems, but I won't take that kind of chance again!<br /><br />Refund his money, he has a letter from the president of PSA for crying out loud.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Jay (JASONn11) - <br /><br />You need to reread this thread. First, paper testing (whether done by someone who handles "world class" documents or not) cannot prove that the item is authentic. The fact that PSA, Mastro and others deem the card to be fake has everything to do with this issue since CSA's guarantee states quite specifically that they will refund a buyer's money if any reputable grading company deems an item not to be authentic. That is exactly what has happened here. Mistakes or not, PSA is reputable. To borrow a very astute comment (which I couldnt agree with more) from an email I received about this matter from another forum member:<br /><br />"I find it totally hypocritical of these dealers who say 'no returns if graded by a respected third party authenticator'. But when these authenticators won't slab a card, then the dealers say 'the grading companies don't know what they are doing and I know better.'"<br />

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>...

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>I think at this point Stevie should get familiar with the phrase "Would you like fries with that, sir?"

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />That's priceless....<br /><br />"Refund his money, he has a letter from the president of PSA for crying out loud."<br /><br /><br />

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>mark</b><p>Wow...seeing the activity on this board the past couple of days, if I ever go into business selling vintage cards I'll be extra sure to keep on the good side of you guys!!!<br /><br />I've had two very different experiences with Steve. The first was similar to yours, Jim, where I bought two cards at auction that were listed in Ex condition, but had paper loss on the backs and creases. I called, returned the cards, and got a refund with no problem at all (interestingly, I saw them again later for sale in VG condition). Since that time I have always assumed that everything was one level over-graded and bid accordingly.<br /><br />Later, I bought a 1986-87 Fleer Basketball near-set. The problem was that the four cards used in the catalog picture weren't included. I do believe that the folks at CS Auctions went to some effort to find them but couldn't. I called frequently for the first few months, and while they did find one of the four cards and sent it to me, I kept being told that it was hard to find individual cards in comparable condition...yet they've sold many, many 1986-87 sets and partial sets since. They rarely called back, and eventually I just gave up, stopped calling, stopped buying, and stopped bidding.<br /><br />I agree that for better or worse it all comes down to customer service, and that customer experiences and recommendations carry a lot of weight.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Guys- We have said all we need to. I am not protecting anyone...I promise...but unless there is something we already don't know do we really need to continue the bashing? Steve is contacting a paper conservator now...I have spoken with Steve a few times today. It is being worked on now.....Lets give these guys a chance to work it out and chill out for a day or two.....we've all said enough....<br /><br />Herman- thanks for putting your name by your post. I deleted it before that because it was semi-anonymous, which is against board rules. Also, I want you to edit your login with reference to CSA.....you may say what you want to but lets keep it professional. This is someone's business ....lets be fair. I do think a refund will come in the near future but again, those things are being worked on....This is a difficult time for the buyer and seller so lets respect that....please<br /><br />ps..Herman- I just read your statement about a child porn website...that is hideous....you need to prove that or edit your statement...this is getting a little out of hand...<br /><br />thanks folks.....

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>jay</b><p>Board members. You have got to know this. PSA, Mastro, Evans, SGC, GAI, they all need each other. Each Auction house that you have mentioned use their grading services. They all need & i'm sure they all work together on many things for REVENUE reasons (that's for a later date). Of course they are going to agree with each other since they are all feeding on one another.<br />PSA, GAI, MASTRO catalogues, Leland's have all made mistakes in grading, descriptions, items. Do the research you will see (like Mr. Verkman mentioned) Why is it that sometimes you see items withdrawn from an auction?<br />You have to take this out of the hands of these people from this hobby. They are all together and will agree together like a large conglomerate family. A private third party outside the sports memorabilia business will give you a better one on one definitive answer.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>You must change your login from the reference you make about CSA..If I could edit it I would.......say what you want to....but be professional please.....<br /><br />edited to say...I saw the reference to the old url....it's not that way anymore and my guess is that it had nothing to do with Steve Verkman...there was no reference to that that I found....I will chalk that up to an internet issue....it had nothing to do with Steve's company....let's keep this factual if we can....

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Then why is the guarantee based on such a flawed incestuous system?<br /><br />Its sad that all the grading companies and auction houses have conspired against this poor card.<br /><br /><br />

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>I think <a target=_top HREF=" http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1137117164/last-1137163159/yikes+-+bad+website+url">this</A> is the thread to which Herman was referring.<br /><br />

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>Here's the part you either don't get or choose to ignore. There is a guarantee that if a reputable grading company finds an item to be unauthentic, a return will be accepted. Period.<br />Doesn't matter if the reputable grading company is right or wrong. No one forced the seller to make this or any guarantee. He elected to do so. If he's got a beef, it's with the grading company behind whom he was willing to stand. Don't make promises you are unwilling to keep.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I just did do that search and found that thread before you posted it...but really luckeycards.com could get just as tangled and I can assure everyone my site only has to do with card related stuff....and always has.....<br /><br />Todd- I have agreed with that statement all along...

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>jay</b><p>Mr. Todd, Let's do it this way. "A reputable grading Co." Nowhere does it states "if PSA, SGC, GAI, Mastro,Leland's Fogel, etc....find an item to be unauthentic" it just states a "reputable grading Co." Why does it have to be them. Why can't it be a reputable third party outside the sports memorabilia business? You see what i'm saying. Who determines what a "reputable grading Co." stands for if they ALL MADE MISTAKES". All mistake are documented by those Co.'s above on the web. <br />When you are talking about this amount of money, you can not rely on 4 individuals that use or FEED each other in the sports business for a final answer. You have to go the a neutral mediator.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />That's a good idea but what would a neutral mediator know about baseball cards.<br /><br />Peter

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>You are referencing CSA in your login....you can't do that. Please change it or I will not allow you to post...it's that easy...and let's stick to the topic......so do it now and all is good...thanks

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>jay</b><p>Mr Verkman, This is my last post regarding this subject. Of course you have the option to do what you think is good for you. I would stay away from the other auctioneers & grading services in the sports business that are all working together, FEEDING each other, and using each other, for an answer. I would take this outside the sports business if you can. The grading services in the past have destroyed the coin business. It's just a matter of time before it will destroy the baseball card business. They are all one family and they only care about how much Millions of dollars they will make this year. Good luck until next time.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>My sole recourse is being able to edit a post, delete a post, or ban an IP. That's it. I can not change anyone's login nor do I have any other info. YOU created the login. Don't tell me to fix it. Had you not created it we wouldn't be having this discussion. I suggest you re-create a login that is more appropriate. Your last post is about to be deleted....and if you post with that login again you won't ever post again. This really isn't personal...and I hate censoring more than anyone...It's one of my biggest faults and I admit it. Now fix it.<br /><br />ps...Herman- I want to work this out....if you have a minute call me....972-774-7032.....thanks man

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Everyone has spoken their mind, and this thread is starting to fall apart. It's time to lock it.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Marty Ogelvie</b><p>I enjoyed reading this tremendously. I learned a lot!<br /><br><br>martyOgelvie<br />nyyankeecards.com

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Just a quick take down. This place is no blog and not a space to merely leave some prose to be counted as fiction or not. It's a forum for incredibly serious hobbyists possessing various and varying knowledge. People yack but always in the context of mostly being serious (or at least attempt to be serious) contributors to discussions relevant and revealing to collecting vintage cards. Livelihoods can be at stake, families are supported by those livelihoods, and thus the rules of engagement Leon amiably enforces. Be a gent and you'll get to have a full say on this forum, get crotchety and dismiss the style of the place and you won't be long for here.<br /><br />Kindest regards<br />Daniel

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Herman Taube</b><p>Now that is ironed out....Lets get back to the more important issue of the week here. Steve Verkman and CSA. I invite anyone else within eye shot of this post to recount any and all problems they have had with this auction house, for the protection of the general collecting public that read this blog. I myself have had problems with this business but for fear of repercussion, I will not mention details.<br /><br />Who else has had a bad deal with CSA?

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>Seller chose "reputable grading company" as his language, not "reputable somethingorother outside the hobby". He knew what this meant and again, had the option to choose other language or provide no guarantee at all. If his argument is that PSA, SCG or whoever is not reputable, then he needs to tell us what grading company is reputable, but he won't make that argument because it's bogus. <br />If you're trying to argue that no grading company is reputable, forget it--no Court in the land would buy that. <br />

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Mr Verkman keeps stating that the only reason PSA wont authenticate it is because they've never seen one. PSA has graded previously unseen items before. Infact according to the above letter written by Joe Orlando he stated that he believes it to be a counterfeit. <br />The letter doesn't say "it looks good, however we can't grade it because we've never seen one." Which is what Mr. Verkman wants you to believe IT DOES say "More importantly, this card does not possess the characteristics normally found on trading cards of the era or issued by the manufacturer. The print, registration and paper quality are not consistent with any period Goudey card or any other card from that time period. In fact, even the wear found on the card appears to be contrived to give the card the appearance that it is of certain vintage."<br />Seems PSA laid out why they wouldn't authenticate it pretty clearly to me...<br />

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Herman Taube</b><p>Have I said anything that is not factual? I mentioned the porn site that was cleansweepauctions.com only because I read it HERE IN THIS FORUM. I am trying to stick to the topic of the bad item in CSA and the situation speculation everyone is proclaiming. All I have is another different opinion from everyone else. <br />I think that auction houses like this one are a plague upon the industry that is only a level or two above perceived slimy coin dealers. I wish cards had a better reputation than it does and I will fight for it until the day I die. Companies like Memory Lane and WIWAG and CSA, and others are perpetuating the present stereotype of the card dealer and it must stop. Don't you want a better industry for everyone? I want to be able to buy a deal with a company check instead of cash because the customer doesn't trust a card dealer.<br />This crap with Verkman is only another banner of customer inconvenience and blatant possible ripoff by another card dealer. The writing is on the wall with this subject. How much more public and expert opinion does there need to be interjected? I am appalled at how the situation has progressed to this level. And you should be too.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Who are you Mr Taube? I know you are not John Taube because he is a classy guy. Why do I suspect that you are someone else who is playing a game?<br /><br />Please stick to the topic of this card and we would all love to know who you are. You are obviously just a lowlife flamer who is only trying to get their kicks by slamming someone.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Herman--"I have had problems with this business but for fear of repercussion I won't mention the details". For fear of repercussion? In my opinion, short of running over Steve's dog(assuming he has one), you have already taken some pretty big shots at him. My guess is that you have already been removed from his Christmas card list.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>At this stage, I analyze the case as follows.<br />1. Mr. Verkman guaranteed he would take back the item if ANY REPUTABLE GRADING COMPANY determined it was not authentic. This guaranty was posted on the website at the time of the auction and therefore is part of the terms and conditions of the sale.<br />1a. Mr. Verkman apparently was in error when he claimed earlier that this guaranty was not in effect for the auction in question. <br />2. A reputable grading company has determined the item is not authentic.<br />3. The buyer has invoked the guaranty seeking to return the item.<br /><br />In my view, all the rest of it, on both sides, is irrelevant at this point including Mr. Mastro's opinion, Mr. Fogel's opinion, whether or not the buyer's recounting of the negotiations is incomplete or misleading, whether testing can or cannot determine the authenticity of the item, and indeed whether the item is or is not authentic.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>Herman Taube</b><p>I don't want to mention the problem deal I had with CSA because Leon may choose to censor it due to bashing rules. I haven't getton used to them yet and how they are invoked. Needless to say, I was once a bidder in CSA auctions until I got tired of being burned on his suspect inventory and subjected to his bad shipping practices. But maybe I am the only one, who knows? I choose not to speculate up here but reference previous posts and general knowledge that is in the hobby. This is why I invite anyone who has had problems with CSA to post here to inform and protect the general public from a possible marginal auction house.<br />Steve, now that you see you have gone from the pan to the fire, its time to be a stand up guy and refund the $$. 18k cant be a make or break figure for you given all the business you do.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Herman- you're asking others to tell their horror stories but when asked to discuss yours, you refuse because of possible repercussions. Why should others do it if you won't? <br /><br />This thread is degenerating into chaos.

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I haven't censored one friggin' thing you have said nor have I asked you to say, or not say, anything, since you changed your login. How would you like me to to change my login to disparage you? You are about to piss me off....kind regards

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>I disagree with you. Why would all the other auction companies conspire against Mr. Verkman over an $18,000 card? <br /><br />I don't believe $18,000 is going to break CSA and if it is, then they have more trouble than just this card. Now if we were talking about the high grade PSA Wagner and $2.3 million, then I can see that the others might want to conspire because THAT would put a serious financial dent in CSA AND be highly public.<br /><br />Also, if this card were REAL wouldn't you think the other auction companies would want it to be real? I mean with all the trouble this has caused for the buyer and the acrimony between the buyer and CSA, I don't think the buyer would EVER use CSA to sell the card if and when he decides to do so. So, the buyer would use another auction company.<br /><br />Leon has already stated that if this card is REAL he would pay MORE for it than what the buyer paid. Now, add that to the fact that if this card were REAL then it would be a unique example of the biggest star player of the time and from the most prominent gum company which produced the most collected series of cards from the time. All this adds to the value of the card.<br /><br />Right now, if the card were to be auctioned and Leon won it for $19,000, the auction company would make $2,850 if they charged a 15% buyers premium. However, I believe with all of the publicity generated on this board combined with the facts I stated in the previous paragraph that the card would sell for much more. This higher sales price would mean a higher dollar amount for any of the other auction houses as far as commissions go.<br /><br />So, for the other auction houses to say this card is fake is, in effect, taking money from their own companies.<br /><br />David

Mr. Verkman – Keep your Word - Letters From Bill Mastro, Joe Orlando, & Marshall Fogel
 

Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Jay -<br /><br />Who the hell are you? I know you dont post here much, but can you seriously argue that psa, sgc, etc are not reputable grading companies? That is the seller's guarantee. His guarantee does not require that someone outside the hobby (presumably with no experience authenticating cards) examine the card and deem it to be fake.<br /><br />As for your conspiracy theory about all these entities feeding off each other and working with each other, that is just plain ridiculous. First, while auction companies need grading companies to grade consignments, Im sure that psa, sgc, gai get more fees from individual submissions than from auction houses. Second, what is mastro's incentive to deem the card a fake just b/c PSA says its fake? That hurts mastro in that they lose a potential consignment. If making money is all its about for these companies than mastro would have authenticated the item and sold it in their next auction graded or not.<br /><br />This will go down in the annuls of conspiracy theories: the Grassy Knoll, Area 54, Elvis lives, etc.