A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Sean C</b><p>I think it's a bad idea, one that strays away from the intent of the boards in the first place.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>Almost every stamp and coin club you can think of holds regular auctions among the members. They are for the benefit of the members, to both obtain material and sell dupes. As to the money, Again, I doubt Leon will be quitting his day job. Besides he doesn't do a damn thing and gets paid well for it. That is the only reason he has to time to monitor this carnival act.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>"Carnival Act"- very well phrased.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Thanks for the feedback. As most know I am very reluctant to do anything that could/would change the demeanor of the board. I also feel I have been very cautious in changing anything on the board in the past. First and foremost this is a place for collectors to come and talk about cards and hobby issues AND is as FREE, and OPEN, to each person as it can be. I want it to stay that way. I did the trial for a full two months with the banners just to make sure the overall feel didn't change. So far I have barely seen an iota of a change in the way we participate. I think literally one person was so unhappy they don't participate much anymore, though I am quite sure they still read the board. Out of around a thousand people a day, and more coming all of the time, I would say that wasn't too bad, though I would prefer not losing any posters at all. I will never make everyone happy no matter what I do. This was a question to view feedback and get remarks concerning this auction possibility. If it goes anywhere I would envision it being a link somewhere on the board to take you to it. It would not, and could not, be hosted by Network54.com. Auction s/w is not their gig, forums are. I will continue to give this consideration and certainly haven't made a decision yet. For the record, unless it went better than expected, I couldn't quit my day job. If it got big enough I guess I could but that would certainly be some time fairly far away. The time and work put into it would justify the means if it came to that. I have had numerous offers for help in orchestrating an auction and am appreciative. One of my biggest concerns is the audience attendance. Ebay rules in that area so, for example, I am not quite sure what a T205 common in "gd" would go for on a smaller, albeit more friendly, auction site. Thanks again to everyone for keeping it civil....and also for making this a great board. The collective community, and I, appreciate ya' .....(we say that in Texas <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>)

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p>I will vote no. This is a Forum, not an auction facility. Let's not mess with a good thing.<br><br>Frank

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>I haven't been here as long as most of you, but I vote no as well. <br /><br />-Al

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys, and Gals,<br /><br />I'll be Frank actually, I'm Peter, the only reason I like the idea is the thought of all those unslabbed prewar and vintage cards make my mouth water.<br /><br />Peter

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Mark Holt</b><p>I don't post often on this site but read threads frequently. Banner ads, fees for BST - it's clear the N54 forum is going in a new direction and not a good one IMO. My vote is an emphatic 'NO.'

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>While I respect everyone's opinion very much your comment about fees for the BST are wrong. You might want to read a little more...best regards

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>A regular auction on Net54 should be looked at in the spirit of providing an alternative to ebay, which at the moment is clearly irritating a lot of people. The fact that the board may be changing should not present a problem. The whole world is changing, so why can't we? The fees would be minimal and it could turn into a popular venue.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys,<br /><br />We're all pretty much equals right now. But when your bidding against each other it gets pretty competitive. It's going to be clear pretty soon that some of us have more bucks than others. I can see a lot of petty jealousy and grudges developing. I've changed my mind. I vote no. Leon are you tabulating the votes.<br /><br />Peter

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Peter ive been outbid a ton of times by people from the forum on ebay and im sure everyone else has too,or at least someone here was the underbidder and ran up the price with an attempted snipe.I dont think that would be a big problem,or any more of a problem than it is now

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Robert {Bigb13}</b><p>I say let the auction begin. Rob

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>When i'm about to bid on ebay, I make certain not to bid on cards if one of<br />my N54's comrades is bidding(assuming that I'm aware of their ebay handles).<br />I wonder what I'll do if we have our own auction?<br />Admittedly, I'm still incubating where I stand with this new concept.<br /><br />all the best,<br /><br />Barry<br />p.s. I also wonder what i'll do on ebay if no ebay handle 'identifiers'<br />are available.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>I vote "no" as well. This is a hobby forum. There are other venues for auctions.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Robert {Bigb13}</b><p>Ebay S--ks lately. They make it so youe can not see what items bidders are bidding on and now with this bidder 1,2,3 nonsence it's getting to be a bit much. I am not even talking about for instance the pre 1930's catogory where you have to weed past all the other crap just to find a couple of cards you would be interested in bidding on. That could take a while to do. At least over here 99 to 100% would be pre 1930's stuff with out a question. I think it would be a great idea for us bidders but maybe not so good for the sellers here. Rob

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I have decided to put this on the back burner for now. It's probably only 70/30 in favor of giving it a try. For those that voted, so closed mindedly, to not give it a try, please don't denounce ebay anymore on the board. Otherwise, you will be worse than my 10 yr old about complaining about something and not trying to find a solution. Actually, she is far better at it than some on this board. It would have had to be a win fo the sellers, a win for the buyers, and if I had to put enough time into it a win for me too. At this point I don't think it would have been that. I feel the biggest obstacle, other than folks not wanting change (normal human behavour) would be the audience, or amount of audience. Thanks for all of the feedback.....now back to that wonderful shilling community called ebay..... I am not sure which I am more perplexed about....me posting for a friend, and getting blasted, or the lack of support for a possibility of a better alternative to ebay for our cards....simply amazing.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p>Why do you nay say'rs have your BVD's all bunched up?.. The darn thing would be off-site thus disconnected from the knowledge board anywaze. Remember the days when we were young, ambitious and open minded?<br /><br /><br />fun fact; Ebay is responsible for over $3,000,000,000.00 in sportscard sales last year.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Leon- I say don't get discouraged quite yet! There is almost nothing you can propose that is going to get 100% approval. If I say it is sunny you can be sure there's at least someone who will say it is raining. I think the board is missing the point and I will repeat it- vintage collectors are getting fed up with ebay. Their latest change hasn't even been fully tested yet. What if sellers find that because of the hidden bidder policy their sales are suddenly down 10%-20%? Wouldn't these sellers by necessity be looking for an alternative market? And that's all Leon is offering- a chance to try a new venue that is board friendly. Would you say that ebay has become more user friendly? I think not. I know this will take time anyway because there is a lot of software involved, but I wouldn't throw in the towel because of a few naysayers. (added to say I respect naysayers as much as anyone)

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Jim Dale</b><p>I am not affliliated with this site in any way and there are plenty of options out there available to you; but I thought it would be worth pointing out: <a href="http://www.phpauction.net/order.php" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.phpauction.net/order.php</a><br /><br />You can get an auction package installed with custom graphics for $204. Not bad at all...I'm guessing there are less expensive and plenty more expensive.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>Leon, if you want to do it, just do it and stand up to the guys that are against you. Whining about it is lame.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I don't appreciate your comment.....imo that was more lame....

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>andy becker</b><p>i think Mark hit it right square on the head.<br /><br />you (leon) discussed a 3-5% fee for auctions. now maybe that's not the same as bst (shame on you Mark), but with the banner ads, and now the desire to go "auction"....i think the board is heading in a very bad direction.<br /><br />i wonder why bill and elliot never posted regarding the banner ads? <br /><br />i wonder why bill and elliot haven't given their opinion on this thread?<br /><br />'for the love of baseball cards'.....hmmmm?

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>"For those that voted, so closed mindedly, to not give it a try, please don't denounce ebay anymore on the board... I am not sure which I am more perplexed about....me posting for a friend, and getting blasted, or the lack of support for a possibility of a better alternative to ebay for our cards....simply amazing. "<br /><br />With all due respect, I don't think my "no" vote was closed-minded at all. And while I freely use eBay on a daily basis, and think for the most part that it's a great resource for us, I also don't know how my lack of support for a continuous auction on Net54 should remove my right to make negative comments about eBay here.<br /><br />There already is a better alternative to eBay for our cards: auction houses. They come in all shapes and sizes, and many of the proprietors participate and advertise on this board. If I owned an auction house and I contributed to this board in one way or another, and the board started soliciting consignments from users (that might otherwise have gone to my company), I'd be pretty upset.<br /><br />I also think it's a misnomer to say that 54 would be a "better" alternative to eBay until such a time that 54 can deliver the kind of traffic that eBay does. Some of the deceptive practices on eBay may be frustrating, sure, but I also think that eBay spends millions of dollars advertising on TV and through the mail, so that there are millions of potential eyeballs to see my listings. Will a 54 auction do anything like this, or will it just rely on the traffic that's already here to generate high prices for my material? Will it make any kind of financial outlay to market my material, the way that eBay or the major auction houses do? Will it produce a catalog? Will it advertise in the hobby publications (besides Old Cardboard)?<br /><br />For a collector who wants to sell a card and avoid eBay, there's also a very useful B/S/T forum here, there are card shows, and there are dealers who accept consignments. Additionally, many Net54 members have their own websites where they have for sale/for trade pages. Lastly, it's possible to open up an eBay store and utilize eBay without the auction/shilling format by selling your items at a fixed price. There are lots of options for selling cards outside eBay.<br /><br />However, this is primarily a message board, where there's a free and open exchange of information and knowledge. Lately, as everyone knows, the board has been dominated by posts related to hobby-related issues, gossip, accusations, arguments, and such. Threads about CARDS seem to drop like rocks lately.<br /><br />I am of the opinion that adding an auction component to 54 will further take the board focus away from its intended purpose. That's all. But it certainly wasn't a closed-minded vote.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />-Al <br />

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>It's a dead idea and is stopped. My apologies to anyone I offended. best regards

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>I think your post was lame. You think mine was lame.<br />At least we agree on one thing. Good luck!

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Evanov</b><p>I agree with Al. I don't consider myself "close-minded" and my criticism of EBAY has nothing to do with my opposition to VBCFA.<br><br>Frank

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>You don't end up with the really good ideas unless you have the courage to present them, and, be willing to hear others disapproval of them - no matter how bad the disappointment if they are rejected.<br /><br />I thought the idea was fine, and the concerns and objections were fine too.<br />Then again, I thought fiddling with a card's condition in any way was wrong - so what do I know <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br />Daniel<br /><br /><br /><br />

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Guys and Leon,<br /><br />Thanks for your e-mailed response.<br /><br />It was a good idea, but you have to understand it's impossible to get a hundred guys to agree on anything. That's why Microsoft and Google were started with a handful of people. <br /><br />The idea needs to be sharpened and honed then you need a group of die-hard believers to spread the word. So Leon, if your really have the energy to go forward with this idea, just correspond with other true-believers by e-mail. Once you have the details pulled together then start another thread. You will get a positive response.<br /><br />Right now it sounds like a half-baked idea.<br /><br />Peter

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Norman</b><p>No way to know if you don't try. What if it works and becomes a really big financial success? This could be great for everybody including sellers who will get more money. Ebay started out very samll too and look where they are now. You never know how big things get started.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Ebay's fees are small compared to most any auction house and they deliver a heck of a lot of eyeballs. I do not see the ebay rule changes as impacting their audience significantly. Does anyone here really think of not participating on ebay from now on, for example, despite the rule changes? I think not. <br /><br />I also do not see a startup auction company as an extension of the spirit with which this board started, unless the start up has certain hard and fast rules that place control firmly with the consignors. Otherwise it is just another for-profit auction house.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>Even though the audience is smaller on a logarithmic scale, I believe that the selling prices would consitently higher on a board like this than they are on eBay.<br /><br />The reputations and peer pressure would put us all in a much more comfortable frame of mind during bidding.<br /><br />Great idea.<br /><br />

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p><i>Even though the audience is smaller on a logarithmic scale, I believe that the selling prices would consitently higher on a board like this than they are on eBay.</i><br /><br /><font color=blue>Doesn't everyone here bid on eBay? Why would the pricing be any higher?</font><br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Agreed. I find it hard to believe that the prices realized would be any higher than ebay.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Denny</b><p>I agree with Norm...The 1st day ebay was online they got "Zero hits"! You never know what could happen?...Unless you try! Quality & Accountablity of audience over shill bidding, non-receipt of cardboard, item not as descibed...the ebay list is endless compared to what can be done here! I for one am in and I can Always say, "Hey, What do I know?"...I'm just a poor Irishmen...<br />Life's Grand,<br />Denny

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>What prevents a seller right now from offering an item for auction on the B/S/T?<br /><br />For example, a seller could offer a card on the following terms:<br /><br />1. Bids for the item are valid if posted on the thread in the B/S/T<br />2. A new bidder must post on the thread by the required increment (particular dollar amount or 10% or whatever the seller defines)<br />3. Auction ends when a particular amount of time has expired without a bid. This can be 15 minutes, 1 day, 1 week or whatever the seller wants.<br /><br />This format is more like the auction house than ebay, which of course ends at a specific time. Bidders would be able to see other bids for an item.<br /><br />Caveat emptor and all that, but am I missing something?<br /><br />Max<br /><br />

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Exactly Max. The seller sets the rules and everything is transparent. No need for a seperate auction site.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Mark Burke</b><p>I would pay a buyers premium just to buy cards from a site that does not have obnoxious, irritating, intrusive banner ads (read lowermybills.com) like every single freaking page on ebay.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>The prices would be lower than on ebay obviously as you get a dramatically smaller audience.<br /><br />Also people would hold back their higher end stuff.<br /><br />Unlikely there would be any auctions of PSA 8 stuff so I would not likely participate...but since David Vargha doesn't like the idea and he is never wrong about anything I vote no.<br /><br />Jim

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p><font color=blue>Thanks for your support, Jim. Could you please let my wife know? She has a different take on things.</font><br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>David,<br /><br />If you like I could even deliver the message personally. I am staying at the Mansion at Turtle Creel in Dallas on Wednesday night.<br /><br />Jim

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Prizner</b><p>Don't eat there, the food's overrated.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Just staying there for the night--is the liquor ok in case David or heavan forbid Leon pops over.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>Leon and I will be joining another out of town board member on Thursday for a get together, Could surely make time for one on Wednesday as well.<br /><br />Scott

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Only if you promise to sit quietly and listen while I explain to you the virtues of graded cards. 9pm at the Mansion.<br /><br />I will even bring a prewar psa 10.

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>besided I know about graded cards and 9:00 is way too late for me. Trust me you'll have a better time by yourself<br /><br />Scott

A new concept....Vintage Baseball Card Forum Auctions?
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>That works for me--