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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>What a ridiculous staement.<br /><br />Imagine that--Behrens playing the class warfare card for the umpteenth time.<br /><br />Sad.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Please explain this class warfare thing? I don't have an issue with Leon, JC, or any of the other people on this board who far more money than me (which is pretty much everyone on this board). My issue with you and Dorkskin is that both of you are pompous, arroungant, jerks. Plain and simple. No one else on this board comes across that way. You constantly find it neccesary to tell us that if with aren't collecting the best of the best that we are throwing our money away and then try make things all better by saying "collect what you like." Which is it? Should we be buying the best of the best or collecting what we want to collect? You are both so far removed from reality it's not even funny. Or maybe it is <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />I'm still waiting for Mr America's Toughest Wantlist to produce something more spectacular than a PSA8 Double Play or PSA5 Delong. Talk about pedestrian. He will continue to be a running joke around here until such time that he can actually live up to self promotion. Hell, I think I'll change my wantlist to match his. I can claim the same success rate at finding cards on that list that he has.<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Funny--<br /><br />We know who the biggest joke is here and its you. Just continue to make a fool of yourself while others ridicule you.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p>While I will not lower myself to Mr. Behrens' level, in the interest of<br />honest representation, I would like to make two simple points:<br /><br />I have never owned or posted a PSA Delong 5. I offered a PSA Delong 7<br />of Simmons for sale because I obtained several PSA 8 Delongs for my<br />type collection. I offered a PSA 8 Double Play for sale because I obtained<br />two other PSA 8 Double Plays-also for my type collection.<br /><br />I also believe that we should not allow people to post who <br />can not speak English. I reference Mr. Behren's two most recent <br />postings. His comments, whilst gutter-like and inflammatory at <br />best, fail to acknowledge the basic rules of English grammar.<br /><br />Anyone who speaks English as a first language knows that the<br />correct phrases are:<br /><br />….. has more money than he<br />….. that belittled every person richer than I<br />…. other people on the board who have far more money than I<br /><br /><br />It is sad that Mr. Behrens has been treated so badly by this country, and that<br />he lives in poverty and hates so deeply. Perhaps, this "card terrorist" should <br />relocate to a third world country and surround himself with others who hate <br />America as much as he.<br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Huh? When did this become about patriotism? Also, the use of the honorific "Mr." is a pretentious affectation and should be dropped - a more casual style might be better recieved.<br /><br />(Just practicing pompous language.) (hee - couldn't resist.)<br /><br />Joann
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>David McDonald</b><p>So do you only want to have him banned or do you want his sorry, syntax-mangling ass deported to Guantanamo? I'm not sure Leon is that powerful.<br><br>Good pitching will always beat good hitting and vice versa.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Rest assured that understanding the intracacies of the difference between a gerund and a participle holds far greater importance to all of us, than any of the opinions of the Dorskind Group which you so charmingly inflict.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Oh, pretty please keep me out of it. I have no power and only want to collect baseball cards and have fun. I am going to have a very stressful day but maybe can frequent our board for a few quick getaways. If people want to collect high grade or low grade does it really matter? As long as you are having fun and it's your money...do what you want. Heck, you don't even have to have fun if you don't want to. Let's do take some of the personal stuff off of the board, if we can. I think everyone has gotten their shots in. As always, if you put your name next to it, and stay with within the rules you can pretty much say what you want to. Btw, I still think the difference between a nrmt card and a nrmt-mt one is negligable and not worth the extra $1000's, but many people do. Hooray for them....it's still all good...(I am sure my grammar is not correct so let me apologize for anyone having trouble reading my drivel)..best regards
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Jay may not "write" well but how he "speaks" isn't at issue in a written posting, Bruce. If you're gonna crap on someone's grammar at least get the subject matter right. <br /><br />We seem to have one of these rich vs. poor threads every few months (of course, what we really have is a rich vs. upper middle class argument since anyone who spends money on baseball cards isn't poor). Frankly, this isn't ever going to resolve nor will it ever stop. There is a perpetual clash in this country between the rich piggies at the top and the hungry piggies in the middle and bottom, and we all know who's been winning and at whose expense for the last several years. We won't solve it with cards. Is is sick that John Travolta has a 727? Would I personally like to see a radical redistribution of wealth in this country? Maybe, but this isn't the place for it to be discussed. One of the things that is most distressing is to see arguments here equating personal wealth with superior intelligence, morality, etc. For every smart guy who made money on his own I can show you dozens of widows and idiot sons living on their predecessors' investments and lots of smart but unexceptional people who were at the right place at the right time and happened to cash in on it. Money isn't about character, quality, ethics (not that anyone ever mentions ethics but I thought I'd throw it in there), morals or any other quality. You can have money or not have money and still be a jackass, as we've all seen. <br /><br />Getting back to cards, personally, I can't decide if I'd prefer that the bottom fall out of the card market so I can collect solely for fun again or if I want to see it keep spiraling out of control so I can retire on the cards I own. Having to insure my cards, keep them in a vault where I can't see them, and enrobe them in plastic can be such a drag, and it bums me out to no end to watch my wife flying lazy circles over my collection waiting for the value to rise to the point where she can force a sale to pay off the mortgage (don't laugh; I know two collectors who "had" to liquidate to pay off their houses or pay for additions because the cards are just too valuable; not surprisingly both are married). If prices on rare and old cards continue to rise many collectors will be forced out of the hobby and that is s shame.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Oh, please. Do you realize how idiotic that sounds?
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Bobby</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />Just want to point out that Bill Gates basically did rip off Apple. But in reality they both got it from Xerox, they where the true inventors of the GUI system and many other leading software developments in there research center.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>To quote Bruce in an email he sent me, "...maybe if you were raised properly by servants like I was, than make you wouldn't be lacking in social graces." All you have to do is look at his last post to see the pompous ass I've speaking of. This how all his emails to have been. Very pompous. Very Condescending and as I mentioned before, he just doesn't get it, or chooses not to becuase he thinks that people respect him for acting that way. Maybe the white-breed Mayflower crowd does, but the everage American certainly doesn't.<br /><br />"Card terrorist"? Does this mean I run around car bombing cards sitting on the store shelf?<br /><br />Jay<br /><br />I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>At this posting there nearly 90 posts on this thread.......and the only rational post, in<br /> my opinion, is Corey Shanus' post (9/17 10:21). A PSA8 or PSA 9 T206 Minor League<br />common such as the Lattimore example selling for mid to upper $K's is so mind-boggling<br />to me that I just chuckle. I am the first to champion our capitalist system; and, if you<br />are fortunate to have big $$'s and you want to "invest" it in neat little Tobacco cards,<br /> then more power to you. I think it's foolish, but I also believe in....."live and let live".<br /><br />My 1st T206 set (521 cards..with MAGIE) cost me less than any single Hi-Grade T206,<br /> non-HOFer, is currently going for on ebay....this is really crazy !<br /> <br /> A total of 90K was cited for purchases in these Hi-Grade cards, if I had $$$$'s like that<br /> I certainly wouldn't have invested in little pieces of cardboard; but, in real estate or<br /> diversified in the Stock Market. And, indeed I have done that and it has paid off over<br /> the years; which as a consequence has yielded discretionary $$$$ for acquiring all<br /> the cards I needed to complete all my numerous vintage sets.<br /><br />At the risk of getting the "Jay B" treatment from respondents here.....I will caution....<br />it is very risky business business in "investing" $$$$ in any collectible that far exceeds<br /> its intrinsic value. And, the fact that it is in plastic with some # assigned to it, then<br /> raises the level of it's value is really scary....very scary.<br /><br />Sorry....this is so long-winded....T-Rex TED
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Babe Ruth too was raised by someone other than his parents.<br /><br />But somehow that seems regretful to me. Certainly not something which one would boast about.<br /><br />Especially seeing that the product of this impersonal training meets with general distaste from our pedestrian crowd.<br /><br />Simply the most recent in a parade of those with similar views. All very forgetable. But as a reminder - the predecessor was Adam J. Moraine. Maybe this one is too.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>Ted Z wrote: "A total of 90K was cited for purchases in these Hi-Grade cards, if I had $$$$'s like that I certainly wouldn't have invested in little pieces of cardboard; but, in real estate or diversified in the Stock Market."<br /><br />Ted, those people have already made those investments. This is play money they are dealing with. 90K to them is no the same as 90K to you and me. Many of them probably have tens of millions already in real estate, the stock market, the cattle ranch, the friend's business, etc. This is likely the leftover money they can screw around with. 90K may be the core to someone's net worth, and if so, you're thoughts would be dead on IMO. But 90K can also be silly money to others.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p><br /><br />Whilst I agree with many of the points that Ted makes, how can one argue that<br />$7000 for a 100 year old card with a population of 1 is too much when<br />certain cards from the 1950's sell for 40% more money in mint condition<br /><br />Case in point - from Vintage Card Prices.com<br /><br /><br />1957 Topps Don Drysdale PSA 9<br /><br />6/15/06Mile High$10,549.70<br /><br /><br />Which card would you rather have?<br /><br /><br />Price is and always will be a function of supply and demand. The first time a card<br />is offered on E Bay or by an auction house, particularly a high grade card, it tends<br />to command what appears to be an unreasonably high price.<br /><br />However, if one tracks expenditure on E Bay of 50's and 60's cards in PSA 9<br />the prices for SGC 88 E-93's or PSA 8 T 206's appears to be reasonable.<br /><br />What do you think abou that Ted?<br /><br />Best,<br /><br /><br />Bruce
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>King,<br /><br />As you know $90K is a drop in the bucket compared with what they are actually spending.<br /><br />There are several that are dropping over $1 million a year into high grade sports cards.<br /><br />Jim
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>People spending this kind of cash on cards don't need wealth building advice... <br /><br />Similar point to King's, stated differently.<br /><br /><br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Also, to state the obvious, if one would have invested in high grade prewar cards 10-15 years ago, you would have had a substantially better return than in a diversified stock fund or real estate. Speculative collectibles can certainly have a place in a diversified investment portfolio.<br /><br />Jim
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>15 years ago grading was essentially nonexistant. What did exist in the high grade market were a bunch of trimmed up and doctored cards to take advantage of the huge money being paid by Copeland and the bandwagon that followed him. Chances are, you would have a high percentage of cards that wouldn't grade. High grade cards always bring big moeny, it's just that it's a much safer investment today than it was 15 years ago if you buy slabbed cards. This doesn't mean that you won't get trimmed cards in a slab though.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>No--you are wrong again here. What really got grading going is legendary collectors like Fogel, Merkel and others endorsing grading and leading dealers jumping on the bandwagon.<br /><br />If you were around then, vintage collectors had lost complete confidence in non-graded cards and PSA came in to fill a tremendous void. What has followed has been a boom in the vintage card market due mainly to the advent of card grading.<br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>My response to your......<br /><br />"However, if one tracks expenditure on E Bay of 50's and 60's cards in PSA 9<br />the prices for SGC 88 E-93's or PSA 8 T 206's appears to be reasonable.<br /><br />What do you think abou that Ted?"<br /><br />"Reasonable ?".......there is nothing in my opinion "reasonable" in any of these<br />prices (sold); whether, for preWar and especially post-War cards. I retired at<br /> age 51, because as I said in my above post, I made some very prudent invest-<br />ments with the discretionary money I earned while I was working as a profes-<br />sional for almost 30 years.<br /><br />I had a family of 4 to support; however, I still was able to set $$ aside for my<br />sportscard collecting hobby. Bruce, in order to tell you where I am coming from....<br />the most I have ever paid for a single BB card is $2000 for a 1951 Bowman MM<br />(in Ex-Mt condition) to complete my 1951 set.<br /><br />I firmly believe on the "law of large #'s"....if I am going to spend multi-K $$$$,<br />then I will acquire a large collection. Just call it "getting the most bang for your<br /> buck".<br /><br />Back in December, I acquired a collection of 500+ (all different) T206's at the <br />Philly Show. And, just a month ago I came across an original T206 "find" of 440<br /> cards. This is the way I have operated for 30 years now in this hobby. But, by<br />no means do I say others should "wheel & deal" as I do.<br /><br />To each his own........regards, TED Z
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>After reading these posts, and having a pretty good laugh over the use of the phrase "card terrorist," I've come to a conclusion.<br />Bruce tends to post topics that relate cards as commodities, much like porkbellies, oil, or soy. Now there's nothing wrong with that, because hey, cards ARE in fact traded like these commodities. However, I think where the rift occurs is that this is a board about the hobby, and a place to gain more knowledge about specific issues of baseball cards. When a topic appears that really just deals with a price (remember that 11 yr old kid?), it rubs people the wrong way.<br />Of course, the high prices paid for a common t206 card amazes most people, that doesn't seem to be the thrust of this board. <br />Personally, I've learned a ton from my 2 years on here, and made some pretty cool friends. I look forward to many more years on here. <br /><br />This is not to say that Bruce or anybody should be bashed for posting about low pop/high prices paid for a card. Hey, if someone has the money to spend on a Lattimore in an 8, fantastic, I applaud your success! I'm just trying to figure out why every time Dorskind posts here, there are like 90 replies which eventually turn into a class warfare debate.<br />End of my ramble, flame away! <br />Josh<br><br>Go Go White Sox<br />2005 World Series Champions!
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Jim, you said essentially the same thing I did but in a different way. I got out of the hobby in 1991 becuase of my absolute disgust with the hobby and the direction it was going. The last show I set up at was the Labor Day show in SF in 1991. I remember their being a both with a company offereing to professionally grade cards. After that show, I diassapeared from hobby until 5 years ago, so I missed out on the birth and growth of slabbing industry. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Crandall is the only person that has ever claimed there was a class war going on here. My issue is with him and Dorkskin and their attitude, not the money they have.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>I am not talking about a class war just what is going on in the market. Others have commented on the validity of my comments.<br />Its okay to talk about ecomomic issues as they relate to card collecting.<br /><br />Remember you are the one blowing your own horn about your fabulous economic returns.<br /><br />Graded cards have irreversably changed the nature of the hobby. You can stick your head in the sand which you are doing or you can recognize reality and explain why this is going on which I nhave attempted to do.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Because I don't buy PSA8 cards means that I am burying my head in the sand? I fully understand the implication and impact of graded cards. Why do you think I did all the leg work I did to get my e90-3 Hofnlan graded? It's becuase I knew that it would maximize the sale price of the card. I offered the card raw on ebay for a $200 BIN and no one bought it. Put it in a slab and magically it becomes a $2750 plus juice. Any card I have of significant value that I plan on selling will be slabbed. They generally get slabbed anyway, just to protect them from me.<br /><br />I don't neccessarily get great returns on my cards. What I do is buy cards shrewdly and don't overspend on cards. Anyone with a lot of moeny can throw a ton cash at anything they want. Trying to collect what we do with a limited budget, which is most board members problems as evidenced by the number of people seeking advice on how to collect on a budget, much more of a challenge than have the kind of moeny that you and a few others have, that can just throw what most of considered unlimited funds at to buy the cards you want. <br /><br />Jay<br /><br />I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I hear a lot of bootstrapping rhetoric offline from some folks to justify whatever excesses they want to justify in their collecting. It is nice rhetoric but it doesn't play in the real world. I am a product of privilege; I owe a large part of what I achieved to being raised by wealthy parents who were able to send me to the best prep schools, universities and graduate programs. I went to school with scions of large fortunes, including some of the Forbes 400's kids. None of them earned it. None of them "deserved" it. They were simply born lucky. I socialize with many people who are nothing special but who emerged from the dot com boom with options that ended up worth fortunes. They did not deserve it nor did they earn it, they simply worked at the right company at the right time and happened to get some pieces of those companies when the friends and family were granted stock. Other wealthy people I know started out with no educational debts and inherited family businesses or six figures worth of family assets. <br /><br />My point is simple: I do not appreciate analyses that equate worldy success with virtue. Some rich folks are virtuous just as some companies are run ethically. Many others are not. It is a case by case analysis. <br /><br />As I said before: spend what you want on what you like, just stay the hell out of boxing cards. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Wow.<br /><br />I don't think there is that much a class struggle between the rich and the poor, unless someone makes something of it. We belong for the most part to this free forum where people come in here and talk about collecting and the pure joy of it. <br /><br />When we make a purchase, we throw it up on a collecting thread and people are congratulated for their purchases. You hear statements like: "That's a strong '4'!" or, "Wow, nice looking front, there must only be back damage!". When someone proudly finished up a T206 set in low grade after ten years, we all congratulate them. This is the kind of community that this is. <br /><br />The thing about this board is that we all LOVE our cards! Would Jim or Bruce ever congratulate your feable PSA4? Of course not. Remember when Adam J. Moraine started that thread which lasted way into the next year about cards that weren't Mint were worthless and will never be worth anything? What's the difference?<br /><br />Bruce, you are a successful person in the world. Why must you resort to words like "card terrorist" and telling people they hate America...why? Because he can't afford (nor would he want to) to pay $7,000 for a common?<br /><br />I was in Las Vegas six years ago and there was a crowd around this one area of the poker room. It was Bill Gates. What stakes was he playing? He was playing the same stakes that I was playing at the time. $3/6. He didn't belittle anyone at the table for playing those stakes. He was having a great time and joked and laughed with the rest of the nine players. I later got an autograph of him and he couldn't have been nicer. <br /><br />DJ<br /><br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>High stakes gambling in LV. The game is the same whether it is a buck a bet or ten thousand a bet. I have a friend who's a high roller (they send the jet for him; he bets in the millions). He can't explain it, either. <br /><br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>DJ, I think you owe Jim an apology. To suggest that he views cards as a status symbol solely is really an ignorant position to take and, more importantly, not true. I don't know Bruce at all but I find it impossible to believe he doesn't love the history of cards and baseball. In addition, should anyone want a real status symbol in life they buy a fancy car, home or woman - not baseball cards. Anyway you guys want to slice it, those who wish they had more money resent those that have that money and figure out ways to subtley insult them, all the while trying to make it seem as if they are impervious to such earthly concerns such as chasing the dollar....<br /><br />Blast rich people all you want, claim that they are merely lucky in business or given money via the Lucky Sperm Club, the bottom line is that if you take samples of 1 million rich people compared to 1 million poor people, you'll find that the richer on average work harder, are more industrious and have higher intelligences - and probably have better baseball card collections too. That doesn't mean there aren't a zillion people who don't fit either generalization -- but the generalization is true nonetheless.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>I think this comes down to begrudging the kid who brought the Nolan Ryan rookie card to school, not because he collected cards, but because he knew it was "worth" more than the '80 Jack Clark that the rest of us coveted. <br /><br />Looking back, we all know that kid didn't collect of like baseball cards, but liked trying to be the "best," when he had nothing else to offer (blame his parents), but having the best of the best (501's, Izod's, etc.)...<br /><br />I am in no way suggesting that Bruce or Jim or whomever, were or are those kids. I don't know them. But- I think that people here (myself included, I'll have to admit)- have a problem with the "in your face" attitude (that may very well be no more than a perception). And- have a problem with the suggestion that these rich kids are driving the hobby (they're not - as we have previously discussed). <br /><br />If you can afford a $9K common and truly enjoy the hobby, more power to ya (and thanks for boxing me out of those auctions- haha). BUT- if you're paying $9K for a common just to prove a point, save it for the playground.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Chicks dig the set registry.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>There's always that...
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think everybody needs to find their comfort zone. Some people are extremely competitive, for whatever reasons, and need to have the best of everything. Others are happy to live life in a slower lane and just enjoy themselves as best they can. These different lifestyles also reflect how people collect. The hobby is full of VG's and PSA-8's so let's just agree there's something for everyone. I know this sounds trite but there is no resolution to this issue. Let the zillionaires collect what they want and others collect what makes them happy. I do however, object to the notion that money makes you both classier and more intelligent. I think it only makes you wealthier; life's other attributes have to be earned, too.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>bruce dorskind</b><p><br />I believe you got an autograph from him (Bill Gates) not an autograph of him.<br /><br />I would appreciate it that if you choose to attack me, please stick to the facts.<br /><br />Here they are<br /><br />1. I collect cards because I love them. I have been active in the hobby<br />since 1976 and published numerous articles. I consulted to Wharton<br />Tigar when he was working on his 5 part catalog and visited him at his<br />home in London. His collection now resides in the British museum<br /><br />2. I am currently consulting to two museums and a national magazine<br />which is about to write a major feature story on card collecting.<br /><br />3. I have the largest collection of collector correspondence dating back<br />to 1929.<br /><br />4. Since entering the hobby, I have only focused on rare cards in top<br />condition. The Four Base Hits I purchased from Rob Lifson in 1977 for<br />the then outrageous sum of $600 is now the second highest (from<br />either service) graded Four Hit. The Just So Tobacco I purchased for $500<br />is the highest graded Just So. Finally, the uncut 1912 Boston Garter Sheet<br />purchased for $20,000 from Mastro is now appraised at 10 times that figure<br /><br />The point is I acquired the best I could afford because they were the most<br />attractive cards, and it was my belief that they would hold their value.<br /><br />Remember what Coach Lombardi said "Luck is what happens when preparation<br />meets ability." Though it is doubtful you would know anything about ability<br /><br />Bruce
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Whilst I was reading the post above, I just about wanted to throw myself off the balcony. Wow.<br /><br />Fortunately it ended, so I'm still here.<br /><br />Wealth? Yawn.<br />Reason for collecting? Each person's personal business.<br />Correcting grammar? Belittling occupations? Lock the door to the balcony. There's only so much of that I can stand.<br /><br /><br />Joann
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I am right with you...and am not taking sides. I do always enjoy it when folks try to correct grammar and then sort of stick their foot in a big pile of pooh <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> .....I especially liked the one from right above:<br /><br />"I believe you got an autograph from him (Bill Gates) not an autograph of him.<br /><br />I would appreciate it that if you choose to attack me, please stick to the facts."<br /><br /><br /><br />I rarely correct grammar as I am liable to stick my foot in the pile too...so I just go on with my B+ grammar.......regards <br /><br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>DJ,<br /><br />Why are you making these ignorant comments?<br /><br />I love cards and know a tremendous amount about the history of the game.<br /><br />Do I know as much about pre-war cards as Jay? No, but I think I know as much as many on this board.<br /><br />Just because I collect PSA 8 cards and better is no reason to presume that I do not love the hobby. As I have said before, my experience in graded cards has been that the people who are the most passionate about the hobby are those with high grade collections.<br /><br />Your comments are way out of line.<br /><br />Jim
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>Your B+ grammer continues to keep you firmly ensconced as the Grand Poobah of the Net54 board. Others can only hope to aspire to such a lofty throne......<br /><br />Not sure St. Peter (or whomever holds the key to the gates for everyone's individual religions....) will be checking to see if your T206 Lindaman is PSA8 or VG ungraded before opening the pearly gates. There's much more to be debated in life than whose is better (or bigger I guess....). <br /><br />Don't want to sound like a bleeding heart because I'm far from it but who puts this much time into their personal lives or their kids lives, their churches, their communities, etc. Hope we not only keep PSA1-10 in perspective but everything else too.<br /><br />I'm glad I can afford Bounty and not the cost cutter version.....anyone wanna debate that........JIF vs. Skippy? Pepperidge Farm vs. Sunbeam?<br /><br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>sagard</b><p>Not to interupt the contest...<br /><br />But did anyone else think money was left on the table by not arranging a private sale of some of the cards. I realize that pricing these may be difficult, but it sure seems like some of these bidders would pay virtually any asking price.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Bruce Babcock</b><p>Quoting Bruce: <br /><br />Whilst I agree with many of the points that Ted makes, how can one argue that<br />$7000 for a 100 year old card with a population of 1 is too much when<br />certain cards from the 1950's sell for 40% more money in mint condition<br /><br />Case in point - from Vintage Card Prices.com<br /><br />1957 Topps Don Drysdale PSA 9<br /><br />6/15/06 Mile High $10,549.70<br /><br />Which card would you rather have?<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Most of us would probably say "Neither." However you could buy a very presentable example of either card in a PSA 5 for a very reasonable cost. <br /><br />Most of cannnot or will not spend $10k on a single card. If the question were "Given $10k of free money, what would you buy," the answers would range from caramel cards to Diamond Stars to Zeenuts to Old Judges to Kal Bats to Allen & Ginters, to Boxing(!) cards (Hi, Adam),etc. That's what makes this a great forum and a great hobby.<br /><br />I've got a couple of PSA 8s of Eddie Mathews, my favorite player. PSA 8s are great looking cards.But generally I'm interested in cards that rarely get graded or, if they do get graded, grade very low. <br /><br /><img src="http://homepage.mac.com/thurber51/.Pictures/More%20Favorites/Darby.JPG"><br /><br />This card is one of my favorites and may well be one of a kind. The Drysdale card was worth $10k to whoever bought it and the T206 Lattimore was worth $7700 to whoever bought it. Mostly likely neither buyer would be interested in the Darby card. So everybody should be happy.<br /><br />I had no plans to grade this card but now that I know that chicks dig the set registry . . .
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>DJ, even I wouldn't say Crandall doesn't love his cards. That's been obvious form many of his posts.<br /><br />Jeff, I've been on both sides of the wealth spectrum. I now currently reside on the lower side. You know what? I am a much happier person now than when I had a lot of money. It's personal decision for me to work a common low wage job than pursue a career in nuclear engineering. I have better things to do with my life than work 50-60 hours per week. So don't assume I am speaking from a position of ignorance. As they say, "Been there. Done that."<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Here's something to ponder: If I had 20 slabbed T206's, and ten of them graded PSA-8 and the other ten graded PSA-7, and I covered up the labels and mixed them up, how many collectors of high grade cards would be able to get them all right? My guess is none, and it's possible many wouldn't even come close. Assuming anyone agrees with this statement, then how does one justify the huge premium for high grade cards?
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Barry, easy answer....EGO!!!<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jay, I don't disagree with your point at all or your life decision. I actually commend it and am a bit jealous to be honest. My comment re ignorance was simply based on DJ's insult of Bruce and Jim by claiming that they don't give a crap about baseball cards or history. It's just not true and his assertion was ignorant, i.e., made without the necessary knowledge or facts to render a correct opinion.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>sagard</b><p>On the 10 PSA 8, 10 PSA 7 question. I think a lot of people would get 80% correct. This is also the likely the same rate if PSA were to grade them again. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>"Do Jim and Bruce love cards? No! Do they love the rich history of baseball? No! All they see is a status symbol, investment potential, registry numbers and cha-ching."<br /><br />Unless you know Jim or Bruce personally, how do you have ANY basis for making this statement? And since you don't have any basis for making it, why say it in the first place?
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>If Sagard is right, and my guess was about 15, then an awful lot of $1000 cards could become $5000 cards, or vice versa, based on some very subjective criteria.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p> <br />My intent was to basically ignore this thread after I got Jim's answers. It was "too each is own" and his answers spoke volumes on what he believed. That's all fine. It started out as a healty debate and I apologize Jim. I should have taken a walk before writing what I wrote. <br /><br />Jeff, the only apology I need to issue is if in fact I was incorrect in whether Jim and/or Bruce actually enjoy trading cards. If I was wrong on this, I'm big enough to apologize. I know neither men, all I know is their words. As noted above, I should have taken a walk. <br /><br />Jeff, I'm not blasting rich people and if you think I am, you are dead wrong. I AM blasting rich people who belittle those who don't have the means to put together a great collection because they don't have the available funds for one reason or another. <br /><br />Bruce's behavior toward Jay was truly off base and I guess I was coming to his defense. Do I know Jay? No. Do I always agree with Jay? Um, no. <br /><br />Then Bruce writes, "Doubtful I know anything about ability?" You don't even know me. What the hell are you talking about? <br /><br />I have means, continue to make a great living and have made a pretty great life for myself. I wouldn't change a thing in my life if I had to do it over again. <br /><br />DJ<br /><br /> <br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Agreed with Peter.<br /><br />Furthermore, I would hope that "cha ching" wouldn't much enter into it. My impression would be that someone with the wherewithal to have earned enough money in his lifetime to build a T206 set in 8 wouldn't be using baseball cards as his primary investment strategy.<br /><br />As far as the overall issue is concerned, I can't believe the venom that some people generate over it. Who cares? People collect all sorts of things in all sorts of ways - far be it from me to criticize it, I'd rather learn from it. Much more fun, and much more peaceful.<br /><br />-Al
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>DJ,<br /><br />Apology accepted--lets move on.<br /><br />If you knew me, you would know I am a passionate collector<br />who loves all sports but particularly baseball. I also have never met anyone who loves his cards more than me. I collect so many sets because I love them all--except 1970 Kellogg(inside joke--just kidding).<br /><br />We collect differently--I have strong beliefs--I believe graded cards are the future of the hobby and that vintage high-grade cards are a great investment. <br /><br />But I also believe that others can collect differently and that their way of collecting is equally valid.<br /><br />Enjoy the hobby.<br /><br />Jim
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>I think some of you guys are cheating on your work and I know it is not Jay, because he doesn't work much. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Lee
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>"But did anyone else think money was left on the table by not arranging a private sale of some of the cards. I realize that pricing these may be difficult, but it sure seems like some of these bidders would pay virtually any asking price."<br /><br />Ah, but if that happened, this thread would never have existed!<br /><br />Seriously, I don't know what would have been a better way to sell these cards. Maybe a catalog auction like Mastro or REA would have brought even more money. Maybe a private sale would have brought more. But here are the negatives with both of those:<br /><br />- catalog auction negative: each increment is usually 10%. When it gets that high, it is possible someone wants to pay higher than the next current bid, but not 10% higher. Thus the seller possibly loses say 5% more because of the auction format.<br /><br />- private sale negative: some people don't like to negotiate a specific price because they aren't sure if they are paying too much. If they win an auction, they know they won it at slightly higher than the other guy's highest bid. But if they paid a private sale price, then they could have paid much higher. I think some people are more comfortable buying in an auction than a private sale for this reason.<br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>I am relatively new to this board and just wanted to offer my two cents. My name is Jay and I am 15 years old and exclusively collect T206s. <br /><br />Every card I buy is with my personal money that I have allotted to spend on cards. I strive for the best condition possible but at this point of my life cannot come close to spending $7,700 for a Lattimore no matter how nice condition. So, I try to find a great gradeable common card in EX condition for about 20 to 30 dollars. <br /><br />By shopping around and spending wisely, great cards can be bought at great prices. This is also part of the fun of collecting: making deals to get great cards. I would not enjoy it nearly as much if I was so rich that I could shell out 5 million and just buy a complete PSA 8 set.<br /><br />I also want to note that the main difference between a PSA 4 or 5 and an 8 is that the corners are perfect rather than a bit of wear. Does this lack of a bit of wear justify spending $7,500 more? Maybe, it just depends on the person, the goal, and the budget. <br /><br />I look for the best condition that I can afford, and most importantly I enjoy what I am doing. This should be a hobby and not an investment. I think that some members on this board should realize that we all collect because we love the game and love the cards (at least I hope we do).<br /><br />Whenever I look at a PSA 4 T206 I can think to myself, "Wow this survived in reasonably good condition for 95 years." Someone else might say "I would never spend a penny on a card that is in such bad condition."<br /><br />Everything in collecting depends on the person.<br /> <br />Regards,<br />Jay (T206kid)
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>You're wise beyond your years.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jackgoodman</b><p>Jay, welcome to the board and thank you for renewing my faith in the educational system of this country. Your comments were well thought out, intelligent and well written. I wish I had your clarity of purpose (relative to collecting) when I was your age.<br /><br />Now if we could just send another former board youngster to the same school you attended..........
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>While I'd just as soon see the ultra rich have their assets drained like a keg at a frat house, this isn't the place for a policy debate. Let's take a cue from the kid and get back to cards. <br /><br />Edited to add name
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>sagard</b><p><<<If Sagard is right, and my guess was about 15, then an awful lot of $1000 cards could become $5000 cards, or vice versa, based on some very subjective criteria.>>><br /><br />You and I have about the same ideas. In a group of ten 8s, a couple may be questionable. Just like a nice group of ten sevens a couple are probably 8s on a day where the grader is happy.<br /><br />The $5000 cards don't become $1000 cards though for obvious reasons. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br />Soren<br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>GEE....Your post is a refreshing breeze, on what has become a very long-winded,<br /> with not too much meaningful commentary on this Thread.<br /><br />What ever happened to the exciting days of bragging about acquiring a "valuable"<br />BB card (it's irrelevant what circa it's from) for a bargain price ?<br /><br />Instead, they are now bragging about paying 7700 for a T206 Minor League card of<br />Lattimore (which, incidently I have 5 of them from Vg to near Mint).<br /><br />I would be embarrassed to boast about such a purchase......But, I guess we are<br />living in an "upside-down-world", nowadays.<br /><br />TED Z
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I did not notice anybody boasting about paying high prices for a Latimore or any other card. Occassionally there are threads about the great deals people have gotten, but I have never seen anybody brag about paying a lot for a card.<br />JimB
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Bruce, since you seem to be so hung up on grammar, care to explain in detail to use simple, pedestrian collectors why you keep refering to yourself as "we" instead of "I"? Or is "we" misspeclled and actuially a French word that was taught to you by French servants that raised you?<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>Which is better?<br /><br />Bragging about paying $7700 for a PSA 8 T206 common? (BTW, who did brag about that? I don't think any of those winners posted in this thread and I doubt they read this forum regularly)<br /><br />or<br /><br /><br />Bragging about ripping off some old lady's face off by giving her $10 for $500 worth of cards?<br /><br /><br /><br />They both suck.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>ripping an old lady's face off (not being sarcastic; it really does sum up what some folks make it sound like they do). Or did you mean ripping off an old lady to her face? I like the first one better, it has a certain sense of urgency to it. <br /><br />To answer your question, I don't think it is ever an honest bargain that is the bad part, it is the way the bargainer handles the successful deal. There is a thing called "class" that you can't buy, you can't inherit and you can't fake. Making a good deal is the American way; being a pig about it is not. <br /><br />The discussion we've had here reminds me of a situation I had recently. I had a friend who got into some money troubles of his own devise and became obsessed with card values as a result. He was so desperate to make money as a card dealer that he could not stand it when anyone made a dime off cards he sold. He got so paranoid that I had to stop being friends with him. He started trying to unravel months-old deals we made because he thought in retrospect that I got the better end of things. It wasn't pretty and definitely reminded me of how friggin serious this stuff can get to some people if it is allowed to escalate. <br /><br />My point is that I used to rush to the breach to fight over these threads in a very moralistic tone but I am less inclined to do so with this one because I understand how it feels to be on both ends of the debate. I have felt at times like the kid with no money looking into the candy store window and watching the rich kids open boxes of cards and at other times (as was the case with my erstwhile friend) like the rich kid staring out the window at the poor kid wondering why he's so pissed off at me. Unless you are Bill Gates or Sam Walton, we are all on both sides of the equation from time to time. I think we all need a little perspective here. It's just cardboard with pictures of male athletes (which is in no way gay...not that there's anything wrong with that, its perfectly acceptable if it is gay...but it isn't gay. Really).
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p><img src="http://members.aol.com/kkkkandp/grammarbig.jpg"><br /><br /><a href="http://grammarsnobs.com/thebook.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://grammarsnobs.com/thebook.html</a>
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>It certainly is not gay, although the shiney stuff may be. The athletes we collect are all dead. Collecting pictures of dead men isn't gay, its ... oh wait, I know its not that necro thing at all - its history!
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>I don't want to merge this thread with the "football sucks" thread, but oh, sometimes....<br /><br /><img src="http://ettinger.ca/fairplay.jpg">
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Now that guy looks gay <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Then again, that whole Ive League, sweater wrapped around the neck thing is pretty gay <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Ace or Gary?
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>well, i am new to the board...i think i used to look on this board years ago...anyway, i'm basically new to it, glad to have found it. well, i am the winner of the Dick Egan 9 (bill from yorktown told me the next day, "looks like you got the best deal")...i have been collecting T206 cards since 1991 (bought my very first cards from Cavalcade of Sports (thanks for everything Jay!)...long story short, i used to a ton of low-mid grade cards, and then last year decided to "streamline" the collection, basically sold all of the lower-mid grade cards and "re-invested" in high grade-low pop cards...you can see my set on PSA set reg, Sarno-Schuster # 46, but don't let the number fool you...anyway, i guess i am hearing a wide variety of opinions here, but just to give my 2 cents, i am a "true" collector, have never sold a thing prior to march, i know the history of the game, the players and the cards...it was hard for me (as a true collector) to get my head around the idea of collecting to invest, BUT it cannot be denied that collecting high grade/low pop, pre-war cards is an amazing investment. i do collect with a friend, who is in the financial world and he is super analytical, he has approached collecting with that mindset, and has made unbelievable profits, but the beautiful thing is, he is a "true" collector, he knows the stories behind the players and the understanding and appreciation of cardboard printing processes and cigarette distribution in 1909-11, etc, etc. so my big point here is this: you can approach collecting from an investment standpoint AND STILL have an unbelievable passion for collecting...and to respond to someone else's point above, questioning why should a common low pop sell for more than davis (HOF)...to answer that we have to look at the root of our wonderful hobby, it is to hunt, find, buy, cherish hard to find, sought after cards, in real estate it is all about location, location, location...well, our in hobby it is all about condition, condition, condition...also, i am NOT trying to fill a set in 8's/9's...thats a task reserved for a select few...i merely enjoy the mystic and importance of looking at and appreciating an 8 or a 9, and admiring how it has survived 2 worldwars, numerous paper drives, handling prior to slabbing, etc, etc...i have owned many 100's of T206 cards, and i simply decided to switch gears and focus on quality...thats all, nothing more...
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>a REALLY important fact i failed to mention is this...it is a huge goal of mine to have a complete T206 set someday, BUT not in 8's & 9's (unless i hit the lottery)...this will be achieved by eventually selling the limited number of high grade cards (which will perform better for me), and "parlaying" those profits into 500+ mid-grade cards, something i was not able to do a few years ago, before i restructed the collection & only had low-mid cards...the higher grade cards will ultimately allow me the oppertunity to achieve the life-long goal of owning the monster...
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Fif the buyers ever think that with so few people interested and able to afford these PSA 8 that there is a very good chance that you would not get as much when you tried to sell your card. A few things can happen, for one you have now eliminated a bidder by having the card yourself and you were willing to pay more than anyone else and the good chance that more of this card will become graded the same or higher. You have to hope that more people become interested in spending there money on high grade high dollar cards. <br /><br />Also, IMHO there will be a day when buyers and collectors become wise to the amount of PSA high grade cards that have been altered and thus will shy away from PSA high grade cards no matter how nice they look.<br /><br />By the way I also think that there is the same rate of return if not higher on lower grade cards, just not the fancy price tags attached to them. I would never have been able to accumulate my collcection without buying and selling for a profit and I have rarely paid over $500 for a card.<br /><br />Lee
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Extremely well said! You hit on my main point--that in my experience the guys who are the most passionate and informed about graded cards are the ones collecting the high-end material.<br /><br />I would point out that the number of collectors willing to pay several thousand for a low-pop psa 8 common(even post-war) is expanding significantly and it is my view that the prices between low grade and high grade vintage cards will widen further--perhaps substantially.<br /><br />My main concern is card alteration--if card alteration spreads further then collectors bcould lose their confidence they are buying unaltered material.<br /><br />Now I am really looking forward to meeting you guys tomorrow.<br /><br />Jim
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>i totally agree that the number of people willing to spend the money on 8's is growing rapidly...i mean look at me for instance, jan. 1 i only had one 8, that i bought 2 years ago for $450, now i have run wild with them...and it is an important point to make here that it seems that most people on the board think only rich people can get into the high grade market, but this is not true, people with limited funds can do this too, IF they make the right moves, it is all about knowing what you already have and trying to find ways to parlay that into as much value as possible in order to make smart trades, hunt and find great deals, etc...<br /><br />we are also looking forward to meeting you tomorrow night as well.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>martindl</b><p><br />MVS,<br />Your Egan 9 is up for sale on Ebay and its only $2900 - doesn't sound like you're selling it, so did someone steal the scan?
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I taught my brother well. On a percentage basis, low grade cards are going to give you a better rate of return than high grade cards will. A $7700 card will have sell for $8470 in order to see a 10% return. A $100 low grade common only needs to go to $110 to get that same 10% return. Take a guess at which one will go up 10% first. You also run the risk in the thin high grade-low pop market of taking a huge loss. I remember a few years somene pointing out a PSA9 or 10 t206 from MAstro that sold for a huge amout less than its previous sale price. You will enver see that with low grade cards becuase there are too many people in that market to let a card go for significantly less than current market.<br /><br />Dorkskin, WE (as in everyone on this board) are still waiting to hear why you refer to yourself as "we" instead of "I". This is really bad grammar, unless you are refering to the voices in your head. Or do you have another explaination, Mr Grammar?<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>someone stole scan...card is safe with me.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>No--high grade cards will give a better return. <br /><br />The number of vintage collectors who are seeking top condition vintage cards is growing substantially and the supply is low and not growing much.<br /><br />If you look at T206s, the majority of the T206 PSA 8 commons I have bought have been under $200 and were bought 7-9 years ago. Lets say the average price of those today is $4,000(?). Have psa 5 commons grown 20-fold over this period of time--of course not. Off-condition cards are much more prevalent and generally speaking those collectors that buy vg-ex or ex cards are not willing to pay huge premiums to get them--those that collecrt psa 8 and better are.<br /><br />Might $7,700 be the peak for a T-206 common for awhile in psa 8--sure. But the market will turn its attention again to goudeys, play balls, cracker jacks, sporting life etc. and we will see big prices paid for the low pops in those issues.<br /><br />If returns are important to you and you have the financial ability to do so--stick with the high grade cards.<br /><br />Jim<br />
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>MVSNYC - welcome to the board. Here's an unsolicited piece of advice for you: <br /><br />Try to get an understanding of what people here think. Many of us (me included probably) will spew the same opinion in post after post, thread after thread. Sometimes it becomes so obvious what someone will post even before they post! I think many of us could save some time by simply copying/pasting previous statements rather than write the same thing in a milliion different ways.
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An Analysis of the Yorktown Heights T 206 PSA 8 E-Bay Auction
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>I try really hard not to write about cards like an investor, but in the spirit of this thread...<br /><br />If we're going to talk about this as an investment, then a big part of any investment involves WHEN you get in. Jim got into T206s in 8 at $200 a pop years ago, which is sort of like getting into Microsoft in the late 80s. The rate of return is huge. A home run for anyone who got in at that time. There's still a lot of upside to getting into Microsoft today, but the exponential growth will take longer, and likely be less.<br /><br />Still a lot of upside to high-grade prewar cards, of course. There will always be new collectors who prefer this stuff, who have the cash, and who are willing to pay a premium for condition.<br /><br />But Jay's point is a good one as well. I think for every big-money buyer of high-grade prewar, there is some multiple of that buying low-to-mid grade prewar. While the dollars are smaller, the upside potential in terms of percentage growth is probably a bit higher in the shorter term. A $100 investment in a lower-grade E-card HOFer two years ago is probably double or triple that today. As more people gravitate to prewar (because it is an infinitely cool niche in the hobby), this market will continue to thrive.<br /><br />Ultimately in my mind there's a point somewhere in the prewar arena where "scarcity" and "condition" meet and create a perfect investment. For my money, if I had any, I'd always opt for scarcity over condition, because I do think that "condition" as a concept is a little dicey, for three reasons:<br /><br />1) People improve the condition of cards, which increases the pops of higher-grade cards (the lower-grade ones, too, but the impact of one additional 8 is much greater than the impact of one additional 4)<br />2) People resubmit cards over and over until they wind up in the highest possible holder, which also increases pops.<br />3) There are still ungraded cards out there, even higher-grade ones, and while the finds are getting fewer and further between, they're still out there.<br /><br />Cards that are scarce will remain so (with some exceptions, like George C Millers, which were mentioned elsewhere in this thread), and are thus, in my opinion, a better "investment" than higher-grade cards.<br /><br />The best "investment", though, in my opinion, is in those cards where "scarcity" and "condition" meet - the highest-grade example of a scarce card.<br /><br /><br />Either way, in my opinion, two basic concepts in this thread are obvious:<br /><br />1) Prewar cards are a good "investment", whether they be high-grade, off-grade, common, scarce, popular, unpopular, whatever.<br />2) There are lots of different people who collect in lots of different ways, and they're all equally relevant and important to the hobby. It's just as much of a thrill for me to read about Jim's latest PSA 8 conquest as it is for me to read about Jay's latest beater, Hal's latest HOF rookie card, Leon's latest 19th century scarcity, and someone's love for 2006 Topps Allen & Ginter. It's all cards, it's all good, and it's a pleasure to have a board like this where I can learn about all these different styles of collecting that shape the way I choose to collect.<br /><br />Exhale.<br /><br />-Al<br />
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