Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>This actually might be a good time to hijack this thread.<br /><br />Obviously, I went to Duke... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>I went to Duke too, but only for grad school so I wasn't bitten by the Duke-UNC rivalry (not that there's any question which is the better school, but it ought to be better for all the dough they charge for it) <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Tim

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Ricky Y</b><p>I've not been an official member until recently so I can't speak for the past...so has the gist of the B/S/T forum changed over the years? And also how active is "trading" of cards? Perhaps a lot of actual trades do occur amongst the members offline that we don't see posted?<br /><br />I've enjoyed the B/S/T so far. I have had nothing but pleasant dealings.<br /><br />

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Tim, I went to Duke for law school and have been in full hatred of the heels since I can remember. I can surely give a pass, however, to any of them that also fancy vintage baseball cards. But that's where I draw the line....

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>Brian, <br /><br />I did indeed go to Carolina. I will, of course, always hate dook (hey, I guess it is ok to hate after all <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ). <br /><br />Oh, and dont sell the Heels short - Im expecting another basketball championship this season. <br /><br />

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>just to drop a simple note of just how bad both of those schools<br />rank below the "GREAT" Michigan schools. Sorry to hear about <br />your past !

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>peter ullman</b><p>enough with the mushy fraternal collegiate nonsense...aren't we supposed to be roasting jimmanos1?<br /><br />pete ullman

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Martin Neal</b><p>Another Carolina guy here. I was there during the Bobby Jones, Kupchak, and Walter Davis years. Played a lot of basketball in Woolen gym. And Tim, Carolina is not that expensive!

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>anthony</b><p>for those of you that complain the price is more than you want to spend (so i drop the price out of kindness) then see you post it for more than what you paid me for it...I HOPE YOU GET BURNED IN THE DEAL. <br /><br />im all for making a buck or two but the only selling i intend to do in the b/s/t anymore will be the ebay section. i too thought the b/s/t was for collector looking to fill their voids and not the dealers who buy up cards then turn around and sell them before they receive them in the mail. i guess its not that big a deal since everyone can do whatever they want with their cards, but it does get annoying once in awhile

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I've actually had numerous discussions on this topic with both Leon and Brian McQueen, both who have encouraged me to sell as much material as I want on BST. While I do occasionally offer cards there, here is what made me a little uncomfortable. I sell baseball cards for a living, and all businesses need to incur some expenses along the way. Advertising is a good part of that expense, whether it is an ad in SCD, an auction catalog that has to be printed and mailed, a table at a show, or even a commission paid to an auction house if an item is consigned. What separates BST from all other venues is that it is a free lunch. Therefore, I told Leon that although I am happy to post on BST judiciously, at some point I begin to feel like a freeloader. Maybe I am too sensitive but I think there is a difference between a collector selling or trading some dupes and someone running a free business off the site. All the other issues, such as high markups, etc., don't really bother me because if you ask too much for something it won't sell; and if you buy something for a $1 and list it for $2 and someone takes it, that's pefectly legit. It's just the recognition that at some point a seller may be taking advantage of a free marketplace. I know Leon disagrees, but I do accept his position, too.

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>And yes, I forgot to mention that I did buy that 1873 Boston display off ebay and must say while it is a beautiful piece there are some mysteries to it. I thought it might be 11 Warren CdV's that were just placed in a display, but I don't think that is the case. It may in fact be 11 individual photos mounted on thin paper and put together as a prototype to reshoot for a cabinet or CdV. Interestingly, the Warren advertising is printed on the backs of the thin paper hidden from view. But because everything is glued down, I need to send it to my conservator for further investigation. Only bringing this up here because it was discussed earlier on this thread.

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>First of all I think Jim M has taken enough abuse. He and I spoke this morning and he is going to change his tactics a little bit. Honestly, I told him I hope that he posts MORE on the BST pages. That way maybe I can buy something else that he has taken time to uncover and I can whittle him down to a price that is good for both of us. We spoke about profanity, on the board, which I am going to have less tolerance for, going forward. We spoke about having something in hand before trying to sell it, which he agrees is a better way to do it......so we discussed several things that were all good. <br /><br />As for buying or selling on the BST I am saying again that if I see something on there that is what I feel is below market then I might buy it to put on my website. I suggest anyone selling on the BST remember that you might be selling to a "flipper" or collector. It's no different than on ebay, where I am prone to do the same thing. Guys, honestly, it's almost the only way I can afford to add to my collection anymore. On the other hand what I don't care for is someone telling me that they NEED something for their personal collection and I make a special deal because of that. Then a short time later they sell it. It's certainly their right to do that but they shouldn't say they NEED it for their collection then flip it a short while later. Again, it's ok.....but I would prefer them not telling me a story. For the record too I am all about helping collectors so if anyone sees anything I have and they really NEED it...ask me....I will often make it where it's attainable.....<br /><br />As to Barry's comments I do understand completely and accept your views. I wouldn't mind a dealer posting stuff on the BST every now and then but most I talk to would prefer not to. As I have always maintained "anything in moderation probably isn't too bad"....<br /><br />with kind regards,<br />moderator dude

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Moderation is my philosophy of life too, as well as acting in good faith. And if someone says they need something and then decides to flip it, you know what...once they buy it they can do whatever they want. Maybe they found an upgrade, changed collecting directions, or just decided to make a buck. No harm, no foul.

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>Leon, <br /><br />Now that you've opened up the door...<br /><br />I really "need" that 4BH Kelly for my collection. I can only afford about $10K. I promise it wont be on ebay, Mastro's or any other auction house block at any time in the near future. <br /><br /><br />This BST is like auction houses, except with fixed prices (for the most part). I've seen people that work for auction houses buy stuff on ebay and then I see that same material in the auction house offerings. <br /><br />It's all about timing and luck. If the card is up for auction on ebay for a week that would give everyone a fair opportunity to pick it up. If you weren't willing to bid high enough to win it on ebay why would you consider buying it on the BST for more cash? If the card was BINd on ebay and then being sold on the BST for a substantial amount over the purchase cost, then more than likely it was just a good deal and the lucky snot that picked it up has every right to profit on their good fortune. That person also takes the chance on the card being a reprint and having to hassle with a return and possible squabble about authenticity, etc. I think everyone knows the drill on this. Sometimes you're the bug, sometimes your the windshield.

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>In an earlier post I credited the BST space to leon but actually it was Elliot who started it so I tip my hat to him. <br />In these days of soaring prewar card prices, the BST space is invaluable and I encourage anyone to post cards there. There are also reasons to post certain cards on ebay so I will do both in the future. <br />As far as guys and gals saying they "need" some card and then turn around and flip it, all I can say is that I "need" certain of the E94 color variations and I promise that if I get them you'll never see them flipped. Well, maybe you should never say never but that master set is one I have spent untold time working on, despite constant requests that I simply keep the best card of each player for one "great" set and sell off all the rest. I don't see that happening in the near future.<br />Now back to the AL wild card race and GO TWINS!

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Couple more responses....<br /><br />Barry- Of course if someone says they need something, get it, then upgrade and sell it so be it....you know what my thought was though. We could come up with an exception for every situation. It's the "intent" I care about and not being told they need it when they don't. <br /><br />Fred- I should have said I will help with "things that are for sale". Mr. Kelly isn't.<br /><br />Tbob- You are correct as Elliot did create the BST. It has been greatly modified to be the way it is today but it was definitely Elliots idea. For the record Elliot created this board too....and although we disagree on who posted first....it was his idea and I was one of the strongest backers of this format...as opposed to my friend (where is he anyway) Mike Williams creation of a board on Yahoo. That format wasn't as good as this one, imo...<br /><br />regards....

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I try to make money on everything I sell or at least get something in trade that I'd rather own. One of the benefits of the BST is its lack of transaction costs. I am more likely to discount on an item posted here because it costs me nothing to list or sell it than I would be via ebay. Remember, that 25%-35% you spend at an auction house is money that the consignor never sees. <br /><br />I am not sure if anyone has referenced this yet, but with the BST I am usually selling something here to someone I know and who is known to the rest of us, which makes it easier from both a trust perspective and a transaction perspective. If someone were to cheat or lie or steal on a transaction here, there are potential real world consequences to it should I decide to make the controversy public. The best ebay can do is a "ding" on their feedback record.<br /><br /><br /><br />

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>am guilty of the "Doogie Hoser" to Leon thing he is talking<br />about. The problem can be for various reasons. Sometimes the<br />situation is more intend ,then intent. Immediately after one purchase ,a former member offered me 1500.00 more then what <br />I paid, knowingly. No brain surgery there. The other time<br />I had gotten a card that I wanted more. It sometime sucks to<br />lose something you just had gotten, if it is what it takes to get the "ADDICTION" done, uh.....hafta make decisions.Sometimes<br />the money isnt there , but the trade and cash coming your way is. The Mohave desert is booming more then Flint Michigan right now.With opening a new carpet store and possibly a restaurant<br />in a month or so, I have to be careful. The addiction at times<br />can push you to afford something , when the timing really isnt there. This at times is my case. Iam not feeling or saying that<br />these replies of yours are directed towards me , but with my<br />arm-hairs standing erect, I will respond for my own reasons.<br /><br />Barry- you are correct .Changing collecting directions can<br />happen in a day ,a week ,month, etc.....many reasons could<br />follow. The problem for aged pre -war collectors like myself , we have had many issues in the past that some are now drooling over, do we really want them? are we thinking correctly? who<br />knows ?....part of the fixation and drama that goes along<br />with the hobby , I guess.<br /><br />Adam- your points too, are right on.<br /><br />T-BOb -though I admire your overachieving TWINS, they are not<br />going anywhere, so get ovet it. God bless Kirby ,but he isnt<br />aroung anymore to save those TWINS ! The Twins should had gotten Soriano at any minor league cost and filled that LF<br />spot that your often injured and almost forgotten l-fielder<br />has vacated. Our TIgers hit your DL'ed other #1 ,so youz aint<br />happening.<br /><br />Back to you Leon- I still have those E106's you kindly sold <br />me, and they are my new collecting goal .I appreciate you<br />regardless of/or whatever you thought my intent was. You<br />stand as a guys-guy- this will always be your strong point<br />over the fort. Life is good !<br /><br />One of these days , would somebody email me to teach me how <br />not to have long lines exceeding other lines ,while my computer shows them in line ?.....I stillem halfway computer retarded.<br /><br />

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>martin dalziel</b><p><br />Always good to see the many perspectives and good to be reminded that those perspectives come from ones lot in life, be it dealer, collector, flipper, whatever. Its all good in my opinion.<br /><br />Barry, you may have cleared up something that has vexed me for some time regarding dealer activity on this board and on others I frequent, where people post 'wanted' or 'need' threads. I've posted 'want' threads and received little or no response - no problem, I've assumed that people didn't have what i was looking for, or because I was offering to buy vs. trade that they didn't want cash. <br /><br />A couple of times I've happened upon a dealer site that had exactly what I was looking for, and was surprised that the said dealer had not responded to me about their inventory. In these cases i've assumed that the dealers just didn't have the time to look at the want threads, or perhaps the value of the cards didn't warrant the time to respond. With your response, I wonder whether some dealers just feel that its not appropriate to use a free want thread on a bulletin board as a means to move their inventory?<br /><br />As a collector I welcome all and any leads.

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Yes, a buyer can do whatever he wants with a card as soon as he owns it. I have given price breaks because someone needed it, like college students, need for card, whatever. I do this because that person has appealed to the universal connection we all have with cards and collecting, and to my sense of cameraderie within the hobby. If his collecting or financial needs change and he sells - even quickly - no problem. But if someone makes that appeal and then turns around to make his extra money - I have a problem. I will respond to fellow hobbyists and needs for cards and pricing. But if someone asked me to drop the price to allow him to make a bigger profit - of course I'd say no. <br /><br />So the false pretenses basically take that money out of my pocket and put it in his - and I can't see any way that is fair, or capitalist, or whatever. If people do a lot of that, and it's considered fair game, no one will get or give any breaks at all - and that would be a shame. So yes, a buyer can do what he wants with a card as soon as he owns it. But if I had someone "take" me via emotional appeal just to increase his profit on a flip, I wouldn't sell to that person again at any price. Nor buy.<br /><br />Joann

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>just wanted to be #100

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>honus3415</b><p>I don't have any problem with the "Flippers", a least they are keeping items liquid within the marketplace. <br /><br />It's the "Floppers", who under the guise of collectors\hobbyists feel that what's "best" for the hobby is that "OUR" hobby's little cardboard gems be hidden away in "THEIR" secret hiding spots. They selfishly amass huge caches of cardboard collectibles under the false premise of being a vintage collector whose goal is to "preserve" the hobby. How is this preserving the hobby? What kind of hobby do we have when items aren't available\shared with fellow collectors and any cost?<br /><br />Don't get me wrong, imho every person has the right to "collect" how ever they want. But don't be finding faults with other people's collecting methods if you're not at least offering to share (sell or trade) the hobby's resources that have been entrusted to you with other collectors at some price. None of us received a decree from Abner Doubleday to be sole caretaker of this hobby's history. Enjoy it for a while and pass it on, keep the hobby fluid.<br /><br />Most of us collected as kids. Just because I started collecting over 40 years doesn't make me any better than the newbie who just purchased his first T206. It isn't the years collecting, one's knowledge, the money spent, the size of one's collection or even the grade of those items that makes a collector\hobbyist. It's an appreciation for vintage cardboard, it's history and a willingness to physically "share" it with others that makes a hobby in which likeminded people can participate. Otherwise the hobby just becomes a library where it's members read and see pictures but never actually experience the actual joy of experience.<br /><br />Sure this hobby is headed down the path where some time in the future it will no longer grow. It may be nearing that point now, when many items aren't available at any price. The point where these little worthless pieces of cardboard that fuel our egos are all hidden away and not available to anyone. Where they just become numbers in a set registry or impersonal displays on a website. When even the most beatup Ty Cobb T206 commands hundreds of dollars, yet thousands are locked away unseen for months on end, ignored in dark drawers going unappreciated except for when their owner's egos need refueling. Yes what a sad day that will be for the "hobby".<br /><br />So as long as there are "flippers" or other hobbyists that are willing to share/sell this hobby's resources a some price (no matter how outlandish) I won't complain. The only problem I have is reducing my selfish greed for some of my current cardboard material possessions so that I can obtain the one I am currently lusting for.<br /><br />Long live you flippers and sellers of scarce vintage cardboard, make a buck, make a hunderd because without you this hobby would come to a complete stand still. You are the fuel that keeps this hobby running. Without you we just become a competition of egos supported by the worthless cardboard that we have amassed and stored in our secret hiding places.<br /><br />FYI.... EVERYTHING I own is for sale every day, unfortunatley for some it isn't at SMR. I believe in having many different things for a short time rather than have a few things forever (limited resources...my personal SMR). But I know eventually, even these items will be consumed into the belly of the beast called vintage card "collecting" never again to see the light of day or the smile of a new owner.<br /><br />

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Matt E.</b><p>Those little pieces of may not see the light of day until those hoarders are no longer are seeing the light of day. <br /><br />Everything is recycled and that is the cool part, it just takes time. We know some sons and daughters will not carry on the passion of collecting and sell the cards or worse yet just hand the book to someone who likes cards.<br /><br />It all makes it back to the market eventually.<br /><br />Think of the latest big find from board member David Levin as a perfect example.<br /><br /><br /><br />

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>so let me get this straight...If you aren't flipping the cards you get, then you aren't doing the hobby any good? This doesn't make any sense? Someone has to collect these cards and hold on to them. That's the whole point of collecting. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>I plan on being shot into space with my cards where we will exist perfectly preserved until a future society can bring me back to life. Baseball, having long succumbed to the popularity of extreme foosball, will be non-existent and I will be able to buy all the cards I want for pennies.<br /><br />--Chad

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>Ive decided to be buried with my cards just to piss Honus off <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>will engage in an ancient wikken ritual by immolating my body and my cards on a bonfire of pure Jack Daniels and pizza boxes in order to free my spirit. <br /><br />Did I mention the name of the ceremony: The Aristocrats!

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>J Levine</b><p>I plan to be freeze dried and then sliced really thin. I am then to have the slivers cut into small 1 centimeter squares and affixed to all my prewar cards. My relatives are then to take me to PSA and create the Mr. J insert and grade and encapsulate every card.<br /><br />Joshua<br /><br />PS I hope I cross-over!

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>THE ARISTOCRATS?????<br /><br />I hope I'm not invited to the immolation ceremony.<br />

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>The ONLY way to make a post that mentions Wiccan rituals and bonfires of Jack Daniels and pizza boxes any funnier, would have been to end it with the phrase "The Aristocrats."<br /><br />Awesome.<br /><br />-Al

Board's opinion on BST behavior
 

Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>The Aristocrats - very funny. Speaking of (and getting way off topic) HBO has been running a show about the Aristocrats joke.