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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>if you need some humor, click on "Cell phones & car ads". This is not safe for work!!!<br /><br /><a href="http://www.illwillpress.com/vault.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.illwillpress.com/vault.html</a><br /><br />Jay<br><br>Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Gil,<br /><br />Whilst I thought I'd given a pretty clear picture of where more trees might have existed, and still be in existence, if not for major human intervention...I'll try again:<br /><br />Every piece of ground covered in substances that a tree cannot grow on or through.<br />Every tree removed to create living space for ourselves.<br />Every tree removed to create goods that are consumed.<br />Every tree removed to clear ground for grazing.<br />Every tree removed for simple aesthetic choice when landscaping homes and city-scapes.<br />And I'll find a tree hugger if I must to improve my list!!<br /><br />If you don't believe this to have occured, please explain your thoughts.<br />Being rude in an aside to me hardly covers your thinking with glory.<br /><br />And instead, I presume from what you write that you are suggesting enormous forrestation has occured or been encouraged by mankind and womankind, or maybe just those gladiator firefighters....perhaps you can name the forrests that have been created (and not those merely grown as a cash crop to be cut down as woodchip in 3 years in Thailand), or give me any idea at all on how you came to your own conclusion?

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>If you want to talk about trees and forests being destroyed, let's not forget our precious rainforests which are disappearing too.

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Being rude in an aside to me hardly covers your thinking with glory.<br /><br />What does this refer to?

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>I am leaving strict instrictions in my will to forbid my widow from selling any of my caramel cards to:<br />1) Anyone who doesn't believe global warming is happening;<br />2) Anyone who drives in the left (passing lane) and refuses to yield to faster moving traffic;<br />3) Any relative of Drew Pearson and James Street who collectively shattered my heart and stole the joy from what would have become the two greatest sporting momements of my life (the Hail Mary pass against my Vikes and the loss of a football national champioship for the Razorbacks in The Big Shootout in 1969); and<br />4) Anyone who calls me "dumb" for remembering and posting Otter's classic comment in Animal House about a girl he know at Faber College having "major league yabbos."

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Far be it from me to tell you how to "moderate" this Forum. But, when you give<br />free reign to "political" bashing as in this format (as I perceive going on in this<br />Thread); then, future On Topic discussions will never again be maintained at<br />the high level as we have enjoyed in the past.<br /><br />There will, inevitably be "negative" debates between some members, not because of<br />the substance of their topic, but because of the perceived hidden "political agenda"<br /> of a given person. Up until today, I did not know (or care) of one's political leanings<br />on this Forum. I was only interested in what they had to contributed to our knowledge<br /> of Vintage BB cards and collectibles.<br /><br />I end by saying this Thread has "opened up a Pandora's Box" which I hope does not<br />affect this Forum deliteriously in the months to come.

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>'E, Daniel: I find your post devoid of fact and attempting to refute mine with an apparent labyrinth of seeds and asphalt seems pointless.'<br /><br />You mean to tell me in my entire diatribe, there was not even ONE fact...?<br />I mean, I signed my name correctly at the bottom and all...........<br /><br />But you're correct, your aside to me was far more sanctimonious than rude - so I apologize for the descriptor.<br /><br />And as for wrong, that firefighters have somehow enabled more trees to be in existence today - because they fight fires, is simply, wrong.<br />And if you don't believe that trees regenerate by having their seeds germinate in particular conditions - notably after a fire, again you are wrong.<br />And if ashphalt and concrete do not currently cover land that would otherwise have trees growing on it, again, you are wrong.<br /><br />And to just describe my arguments as pointless, well, that's just plainly wrong!<br /><br /><br /><br />Sincerely<br />Daniel<br /><br /><br />Ps: Oh, and in my native land, the aboriginal people - a truly noble race of extraordinary people - have been using burn-off techniques to control the bush and prevent raging forrest fires for 40,000 years.<br />But of course, you would need to believe them I guess, and that can be hard for western cultures who feel their religious beliefs give them ownership of the creation debate.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I predict the board will be back to normal tomorrow, like nothing ever happened. This is a one shot deal, I'm guessing, so everybody who has anything to say, get in today while the going is good. I know Leon well enough to know this is not going to be a regular feature. He's letting us out of the asylum for the day, but we have to be back at sundown (The King of Hearts?)

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>This board has degenerated into the tiresome "Dems blaming it on the Repubs" tirade. <i>yawn</i> But if an idyllic liberal anything-goes society is what you crave, look no further than Western Europe -- but you had better look now, because at the current declining population and productivity rates, it will be a very different Europe in the coming decades. (The recent riots in France are only the beginning -- what's next? A collapse of the social system in Denmark in the coming years appears inevitable ... but that's perhaps even too far OT for this thread.)<br /><br />But the good news is that Al Gore probably has the answers (at least he thinks he does).<br /><br />And I learn something new every day on this board. Previously, I thought global warming was a long-term irreversible natural climactic change. You know, an ice age on one end of the spectrum and oceanfront property in Pennsylvania on the other. I hadn't realized that it's the fault of bible-beating midwest Republicans, driving all over the place cutting down trees. Perhaps they should pay reparations to the Aussies for causing all that melonoma. However, the bright side is that we now know that our ancestors can prevent the next ice age by actually cutting down trees and consuming fossil fuels, or at the very least by voting Democratic. What a relief!

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think you are interpreting the threads on this board rather arbitrarily. There have been many different points made, you have chosen to mix them up to fit your own personal agenda.

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Posted By: <b>dd</b><p>I'm not a racist or sexist, I dislike all people equally; and I'm perfectly happy being miserable.<br /><br />Thanks to Big Tobacco and Evil Sugar for creating bb cards.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Just think about how many people had to die just so someone could complete a T206 set.

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Well pcreaven, <br /><br />You're kind of right about one thing.....there is undoubtedly a 'natural' cycle for the earth warming and cooling that has nothing to do with us as humans and our interventions. <br />The only problem is - that the natural cycle would take 100 thousand years to accomplish what we have set up and are conitinuing to do in the next 200 years.......minus an asteroid or two....<br />So, If you don't really care what happens after you're dead then you're ok with our current path.<br />If it really bothers you that future generations, as in your kids, their kids, and their kids, will all have drastically different lives because of what we are doing to the environment - then it's not o.k wer're on this path - and we shouldn't enable our leaders to foul further the pot.<br /><br />Oh, and your shot about Australia.<br />Take it for a Yank to belittle a country that has hung itself out to dry alongside your nation in this 'war on terror'....as so very few others have been want to do.<br />No worries mate, we'll keep that in mind the next time round when you're trying to count your friends in the international community.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Yes, of course, it's my fault. I wasn't aware that I was mixed-up and being arbitrary, but it must be the case. But if you can tell me what my agenda is I would appreciate it, becasue I wasn't aware I had one, and if I did, perhaps it was lost amidst all the obvious agenda-exposure in the above threads.

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p> In a war between France and England one of the main forces of the army was the archer. Everytime an archer was captured by England, they would cut off his middle finger, thus he was no longer any good as an archer. When the two armies squared of in the field, the French archers would show the English their middle finger. Flaunting them with the finger, hence giving someone the finger. Just my rambling thought on a most interesting thread. Joe<br><br>A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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Posted By: <b>V117Collector</b><p>Q: Do You Think' society is changing for the worst? <br /><br />Note:<br /><br />The more you watch TV <br />And follow' trends, <br />The quicker you'll get it in THE END!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />No responds necessary!!!

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Posted By: <b>martindl</b><p><br />Ted,<br />I don't think this thread, or peoples views, will have much if any impact on the regular goings on on here. Theres been a smattering of vintage talk (I tried with M Supplements - oh well)and if a lot of people are like me, they just skipped the political and tree stuff and went their merry way.<br /><br />Martin

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I don't think this thread is Republican or Democrat bashing, although there is an element of it. It's about this country having bad policies for a very long time and now we are paying the price for it, and paying dearly. I would never ever support terrorism but I certainly understand why other countries hate us so much. And the current administration, who do happen to be Republicans, is taking a bad situation and pouring gasoline on it and making it worse. Global warming is a real fact and our leaders practically ignore it because addressing it is bad for big business. I could go on and on, but I've posted too much today as it is.

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>It's not about the "Dems" blaming the GOP or vice-versa. ALL PARTIES are at fault for the misdeeds in this world, whether it be global warming, war, poverty, etc. Some parties have more culpability in certain areas, but each are probably equally to blame. <br /><br />Both parties in the US have the relative power to better this society and assist in bettering the world, but obviously that isn't a priority. (As Barry points out, the GOP is "in power" now, so some accountability would be nice). <br /><br />We can go on for 10,000 more posts debating what the priorities are, but just look out your window and read the newspaper and you'll see the sorry state of affairs which are affecting human beings, animals and the earth and anybody who "blames" the "Dems" or whomever is either blind or completely uninformed.<br /><br />Now who's going to sell me a T215 Pirate back?

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Posted By: <b>Joe Jones</b><p>D cards are soooo Purdy<br /><IMG SRC="http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/450009815/117.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Daniel: if you think Americans are accelerating global warming by hundreds of thousands of years, show us the scientific literature. I would be glad to learn more about it.<br /><br />And the only one taking shots here is YOU -- your Uncle George and "take it for a Yank" comments speak volumes about your real feelings towards the US (but you get credit for at least being honest in your disdain). In any event, I would hardly call my "arbitrary" reparations comment a shot against Australia generally, and to somehow equate that with a lack of appreciation for Australia's past support of the US is a nonsequitur.<br /><br />Barry: I agree with your last post about years of bad decisions and bad policies, by both parties, being continued by the current administration. No argument here on that point. I just disagree that global warming is going to be somehow be reversed if industry standards are changed, or even that it is being dramatically accelerated due to current practices.

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>pcreaven.<br /><br />Maybe you should ask first also.....<br /><br />My father is American born and raised, and currently lives here. My mother is Australian.<br />My dad's father, my grandfather, came over to the US towards the end of the second world war and joined the US army, became a ranger and highly decorated soldier, worked in intelligence directly under Eisenhower, and helped make what is better in this country.<br />My wife is american, my children are american, I have permanent residency, and if I don't have the right to show disdain for what I believe are agregious faults with my adopted homeland, then no-one does and lets all just put the cards down and agree to live in a fascist society.<br /><br />I want to make things better, and part of that is letting it be known - in sometimes loud voice, how terrible some things are.<br />I believe it makes me a better American citizen, not a lesser one.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>In my crazy little mind I think threads like this can actually draw us closer together as a "card family". It takes differing views to make the world go around. I think we are all to blame for most stuff. This thread will not make it past this evening and I will shut it down in the morning, most likely. I see no harm in a thread like this every great once in a while. I don't see anyone in the thread just passing by, that I don't know of. No one has to open this thread if they don't want to. I think it's interesting to see how my card buddies think. So this is that one thread you can speak your mind about whatever you want to, as long as it's not personal, immature, attacks....It's everyone's right to disagree with each other..just keep it clean...and as courteous as possible.......best regards

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Industry has the ability to cut down the carbon dioxide that is polluting the atmosphere and destroying the protective ozone layer, but it is a very expensive proposition. Their lobbyists will have no part of it. Likewise, Americans consume way too much gasoline, and car emissions are also destroying the atmosphere. But all we do is keep using up precious oil, oil that has to be purchased from nations that support terrorism. It's a vicious cycle and we may never get out of it.

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Posted By: <b>PStratton</b><p>someone please post a bender w/trees variation to make daniel feel better...

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Daniel: I really do not want to continue this line of discussion, as it is you who are bringing nationalities into this, and frankly, arguing with yourself. But I will point out that, among other statements on this board, you have described yourself as follows: "As an ozzie boy who has lived abroad in countries other than the US of A, and travelled reasonably extensively in life, you yanks just mystify me."<br />

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>That's right pcreaven.<br /><br />Born in Australia.<br />Lived there most of my adult life - first 30 years.<br />Also lived in Israel for a year.<br />Have spent significant time travelling Asia, and Europe.<br />Have travelled through some 35 states in the USA.<br />And, been living here in the US the last 6 years.<br /><br />What part of that background is so perplexing to you?<br /><br /><br />Clearly, you are not mystified by America's current path and thinking.<br />Quite clearly I am.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I knew I should have takent aht left turn at Albuquerque.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Joe B.- You learn something every day. If that story is not apochryphal about the archers, it is a great tale.<br />My favorite story which differentiates Yanks from others was told by Billy Crystal about The Bambino. He said 2 men, an American and Englishman got in to an argument. The Yank insulted the Englishman by saying "screw the King." The Englishmen hit back hard with the most biting comment he could say, "oh yeah, well, screw Babe Ruth." One man owed his position of prominence strictly to an accident of birth and tradition and had risen to his position of power irrespective of anything he had done other than his regal birth, while the Englishman disparaged a swash -buckling, bigger than life, drinking, womanizing, child-loving man who rose from the most meager of circumstances to ascend to his position strictly on his talents and abilities. <br />I think this story tells a lot...

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Barry, you are correct. To substantially reduce industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have an enormous cost impact to the ecomomy. The same is true for automotive emissions.<br /><br />However, although I am not convinced that it is a worthwhile project, the way to minimize our carbon dioxide emissions is to do the first thing first, then follow it with the next thing. This is underway.<br /><br />The first thing is to follow the lead of Houston, Tx. and time the traffic lights in our cities to not impede the flow of traffic. Of course this has benefits beyond substantial carbon dioxide emission reduction, but that is ok.<br /><br />The scond thing is to stop burning fuel to produce electricity. Bush has spoken about this with all of his renewable resources crap. But the big picture is that this can only be done by reinstituting our nuclear power plants and by funding research to develop better nuclear technology. Clearly, this can not be done by Thursday, but it can be started.<br /><br />Here is where this thread has turned political. I am no longer talking about weather, I apologize. Back to your regularly scheduled program.<br /><br />Be well.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Every big city in the country, if not the world, is hopelessly overcrowded with traffic. And nearly every big city has this noxious cloud of C02 hanging over it; it's even visible in the hot weather. The damage it does is simply awful, but I don't believe a single one takes traffic congestion seriously. And that doesn't even take into account the wasted man hours sitting in one spot and barely moving, something that makes me nuts. All these things are contributing factors, but nothing is done about it.

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>Bob, It is a true story and the origin of the Finger. I enjoyed your story of the Babe too. <br />The origins of a word used very often in the english language goes something like this. If anyone saw the movie "Braveheart" you will remember that English Lords took a bride on here wedding day and had sex with her. The law that allowed that we called "Fornication Under the Consent of the King."<br /><br />F for Fornication<br />U for Under<br />C for consent<br /><br />Well you know the rest. Useless trivia clogging an other wise abnormal brain.<br><br>A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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Posted By: <b>V117Collector</b><p>I think we should put a lock on it!

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>Does anyone have any idea how many buggy whip factories went out of business when they invented that new fangled automobile? I'm just curious? Anybody?<br><br>A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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Posted By: <b>V117Collector</b><p>lol!

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Its political, Barry. You got to get Govt employees to do their job. There is typically no good reason why traffic lights should be improperly timed.<br /><br />I think Houston's Mayor was Bill White. And before he was done improving traffic flow, safety and other stuff, he got over a billion $ from the Feds (our tax dollars) to improve things even more there.<br /><br />This is fairly recent stuff. I think he started in 2004, was mostly done last year, but still has some things on going.<br /><br />Every second you are needlessly sitting at a traffic light, you are wasting your time/getting 0 MPG/polluting the air/building your road rage/etc.

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Posted By: <b>V117Collector</b><p>Has anyone been to Sin City? Being a history buff I uncovered that Vegas has the longest traffic lights waits in the U.S., you could just imagine the extreme rage.<br /><br />It's funny to having extreme rage for only wanting to go forward!

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Posted By: <b>John S</b><p>PC,<br /><br />Both Time and Natural History did highly convincing secondary research articles on global warming and the greenhouse effect in the past six months; you could probably find these easily at your local library. The primary research, if you are interested in reading scientific/environmental journals, also is very compelling.

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>The only this I can say is "ICE-AGE"! An neural phenomena what happens every 50,000 years, like clock work. <br /><br />Man'kind is just speeding it up sins the industrial revaluation, which started in Europe.<br /><br />"I like it cool, so it doesn't bug me at all."<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>I can't believe there has been a 118 off topic post with no gratuitous dog photos<br /><br /><img src="http://static.flickr.com/56/188030438_49ca90d433.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Chris Mc</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1152839449.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>We had a mini Ice Age that lasted from 1300-1880's. The potato famine in Ireland was just 1 result. The reason we drink beer insted of wine was another cause. It was too cold to grow grapes in Northern Europe, so they made beer instead. Our Northern Europian ancestors migrated to America and continued the tradition. Thank the mini Ice Age for the 6 pack in your fridge.<br><br>A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>Not meaning to be morbid, but I wonder how we'd know if a regular contributor here died. I'm thinking of the occasional post that is kind of an APB for someone - people looking for that person, etc. Answers come back about vacations, illnesses, etc, that have put someone out of contact temporarily. But if someone just kind of stops contributing outright, or dead-ends on a BST deal, do we ever consider that they may have died?<br /><br />OK. So now global warming is starting to look like a topic with a little levity and lightness, isn't it? lol<br /><br />Joann

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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>John: Time is generally not a good source on anything, but I had read the article nontheless. This National Academies summary is a better starting point: <a href="http://dels.nas.edu/basc/Climate-HIGH.pdf" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://dels.nas.edu/basc/Climate-HIGH.pdf</a><br /><br />All those articles establish is that the earth is warming, and that greenhouse gases contribute to global warming (hard to dispute either). But, there is no evidence that this warming is not due primarily to natural climactic change, and further, that there is any way to prevent it.<br /><br />My personal view is that it is worth the effort to cut down on emissions, find alternate (non-fossil) fuel sources, and stop polluting the air -- if that stops global warming great, but there are other good reasons for making those changes.

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>I am going with Jay's suggestion - stuff your pants with butterscotch pecan pie, and take the Albuquerque offramp.

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> I went to the all-star game and the entire weekend and had a blast.Not only is PNC park the best stadium in baseball but its also great to be surrounded by Pirates fans at a baseball game.<br /><br /> I also went to Fenway the week before but that was covered in another thread i started by mistake.<br /><br /> I didnt read much of this thread but i like it,probably will go over 1000 posts,and if it doesnt ill edit this to say a smaller number

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Nature is over rated and this whole thread about the environment...yawn. <br /><br />Important: Does anyone here believe that Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes had that damn baby "Surie"?<br /><br />I say: "nah", he's a freaking kook.<br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p><br />Sorry Joe,<br /><br />Both stories are false. www.snopes.com is a great site to determine the truth of most such stories:<br /><br />The Archers:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.htm</a><br /><br />Orgin of the word F..K:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/****.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/****.htm</a><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>edacra</b><p>The internet was invented in 1968-ish. It was known as Arpanet back then, and used mainly by University Scientific professor types to gossip and compare notes.<br /><br />....not that I could follow any of this thread, but I thought I'd drop that bit of trivia.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Well I know this was not a thread that suited everyone's tastes for sure, but before Leon shuts it, thanks to everyone for listening to my raves and rants. There was actually some pretty interesting stuff here. I'm sure the board will be back to normal today with lots of posts about vintage cards.

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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>I agree - kind of nice to have the occasional "Pot Pourri" categroy, like on Jeopardy. <br /><br />Joann

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I really don't know why they have to come to an end but they do. Maybe I will take a vote about one of these a month or something....gotta think about that. First and foremost this is vintage baseball card chatboard.....I do think it was fun seeing some off topic thoughts.....best regards