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Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: davidis it possible to have the owner of the cards post the full checklist and note which cards there are duplicates of and if the duplicates are of the same pose or unique poses of the same player. additionally i believe there are several well known document forgeries that were done using period ink and parchment so dating the paper can still not be conclusive as to the authenticity of the cards

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: jay behrensRob, the best I can figure is that all that has been proven is that the paper is from the late 1950s. This does not mean that the cards were printed then. It jsut means the paper is that old. If you are going forge an Egyptian papyrus concerning the reign of King Tutankahmen, you need papyrus from the correct era to try and fool experts. Same goes for creating a "fantasy" set of vintage cards to try and fool experts. I'm guessing you've never seen these Polar cards either, which menas you ahve no more insight than Ryan does into this set. Given the fact that I have no clue who you are and that I know Ryan and his expertize in the field, I'd take his at his word that set doesn't seem legit. Jay I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: ChadSelf styled expert? Ryan, has in fact, had one of these cards in hand. As far as his credentials go, if you can find a collector in this country, or even in Cuba, who has handled more Cuban cards, I wish you'd let us know who he is. Look, Ryan has nothing to gain by exposing these cards. If they are real, he can't very well buy them up and then sell them on his website. He's doing us a service and his volunteering to go out on a limb and give his best opinion on these cards shouldn't be met with half assed attacks. If he does end up being wrong about this, he'll be the first to admit it. I'll bet Ty Cobbs to Jack Barrys he isn't, tho. --Chad

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: Mike CampbellI vowed to move on from the Polars, maybe I can help here. I have a list sent to me of all cards in this set so far discovered. Below find a list of all cards known as of Oct. 7 of this year. I am told there are a few duplicates, but not many. This list was sent to me, so please don't hold me respondsible for it's contents. I am passing on what I was told. I am also told, none have been found since the initial find. So, if 20 Ruths all of a sudden show up, then I guess we have an answer. But since I was told emphatically that this is it, and they are real, if anyone ever starts spotting pails of these, then we will know. So here goes. J. C. Mendez > > > > M. Dihigo > > > > > > > > O. Miñoso > > > > > > > > Armando Marsans > > > > > > > > Isidro Fabre > > > > > > > > Antonio Susine > > > > > > > > Adolfo Luque > > > > > > > > Yoyo Diaz > > > > > > > > Jacinto Calvo > > > > > > > > E. Antonio Palmero > > > > > > > > Manuel "Patato" Cueto > > > > > > > > C. Marrero > > > > > > > > Fermin Guerra > > > > > > > > Julio E. Gonzalez > > > > > > > > Lazaro Salazar > > > > > > > > Agapito Mayor > > > > > > > > Babe Ruth > > > > > > > > S. Paige > > > > > > > > O. Charleston > > > > > > > > M. Ott > > > > > > > > L. Grove > > > > > > > > T. Cobb > > > > > > > > M. Irving > > > > > > > > Frank Robinson > > > > > > > > B. McKechnie > > > > > > > > Ted Williams > > > > > > > > M. Cochrane > > > > > > > > L. Waner > > > > > > > > Jimmie Foxx > > > > > > > > Frank Chance > > > > > > > > Nap. Lajoie > > > > > > > > Fred Lindstron > > > > > > > > G. Sisler > > > > > > > > B. Feller > > > > > > > > F. McGlunity > > > > > > > > W. Keeler > > > > > > > > B. Dickey > > > > > > > > F. Frisch > > > > > > > > E. Combs > > > > > > > > C. Hubbell > > > > > > > > Waite Hoyt > > > > > > > > Red Ruffing > > > > > > > > George Kelly > > > > > > > > L. Gomez > > > > > > > > T. Sewell > > > > > > > > T. Jackson > > > > > > > > C. Mathewson > > > > > > > > G. C. Alexander > > > > > > > > L. Appling > > > > > > > > R. Maranville > > > > > > > > Bucky Harris > > > > > > > > L. Boudreau > > > > > > > > H. Manush > > > > > > > > F. Jacobs > > > > > > > > R. Roberts > > > > > > > > G. Hartnett > > > > > > > > J. Sewell > > > > > > > > B. Wallace > > > > > > > > W. Johnson > > > > > > > > M. Carey > > > > > > > > H. Hooper > > > > > > > > S. Rice > > > > > > > > Ralph Kiner > > > > > > > > A. Simmons > > > > > > > > J. Gibson > > > > > > > > H. Heilmann > > > > > > > > C. Klein > > > > > > > > E. Collins > > > > > > > > P. W. Reese > > > > > > > > D. Vance > > > > > > > > G. Goslin > > > > > > > > P. Traynor > > > > > > > > K. Cuyler > > > > > > > > J. Cronin > > > > > > > > D. Bancroft > > > > > > > > Z. Wheat > > > > > > > > J. Medwick > > > > > > > > C. Hafey > > > > > > > > R. Marquard > > > > > > > > E. Rixey > > > > > > > > R. Ferrell > > > > > > > > M. Brown > > > > > > > > R. Faber > > > >

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: Mike CampbellBy the way Jay, I believe we are both Minnesotans. Nice weather huh?

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: jay behrensyeah, at least the freezing rain stopped. Jay I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: sagardCome on guys. Minnesota isn't bad right now. The outdoor rinks have ice, it's not 10 below. Life is good. I said it on the first thread. Whoever is selling these cards is likely leaving tens of thousands dollars on the table by not trying to get SGC/PSA or GAI to authenticate these items. That to me is telling.

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: Harry KressCan SGC/PSA/GAI authenticate Cuban cards better than Ryan? I don't think so

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: jay behrensIf my experinece with SGC as far as trying to get uncatalogued cards slabs is any indicator, they aren't going to do it unless someone like Ryan and few other experts step forward and say the cards legit. I can't speak to an experience with PSA or GAI, but I doubt they are going to readily slab an unknown issue. Hell, PSA has a hard enough time properly IDing known issues. Jay I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: Rob Yet here is where the buyer had taken the trouble to have the cards viewed by experts on old paper & printing who say they are from that era. This makes for a convincing case they were made in that era. If the seller was out to scam someone, then he didn't make a lot of money for his efforts. It's most unlikely the seller'd anticipate someone taking the trouble to having them examined in a manner where as much or more was spent verifying the authenticity of the card than what the cards sold for. I was made to believe it's probable that these are vintage prototypes, given the political events in Cuba in 1959, that the "Polar" was done in different ways on the card fronts, the eclectic selection of subjects is consistent with earlier Cuban issues as to suggest authenticity. Now, having said all of that, perhaps the buyer posting on this board is working in collusion with the seller, that there is a long line off BS about the cards origins, paper tested ect. Then I would agree with Ryan here as to motive, they are hoping to make the big money from deep pocketed vintage baseball card buyers later. It's hard to tell the card thickness from the scans, but the card appears to be on a thinner stock. I would expect a thicker cardboard used in the late 1950's era. The font of the printing on the back suggests pre WWII, a mistake someone trying to concote an elaborate fake would make. These are the reasons I did not bid on the cards, I focused on the card appearance, not the rationale used by Ryan. If this is a scam, then it's a scam being played at a level far above the jokers baking Dover reprints being sold to suckers on Ebay. Now, if I had those cards and was convinced they were real, heres the route I would take: I would compile a checklist and get them included in the SCD catalog, have a press release about "Newly Discovered" cards in hobby publications, exhibiting the cards at major card shows, and do other things to build the value of the cards. Then I would consign to an auction house were the final price comes from the last bid, not a designated time as with Ebay, unacceptable as a seller of something that rarity (although quite nice for the sniping bidder).

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: mike campbellI am the buyer of one card. That hardly puts me in collusion with the seller. The seller and I have exchanged a few e mails. Contrary to what it may appear in here, I do not have to time to concoct a scheme to defraud anyone. Let alone one of this magnitude. I mean really...as an earlier post of mine states, Jay Behrens, whom everyone in here knows, lives near me. He is welcome to come to my home, and see that I do not have horns, cloven hoofs, and a tail. I retired at 51, from a Bank Corp, in Minnesota that Jay is more than familiar with, then formed my own investment firm. Why do I feel like I need to prove myself, and justify everything I do ? Jay can stop in and check out my pre war collection, any time. My wife and children would welcome him, as would I. I speak of him, because everyone else lives far away from the arctic circle.. And I will say this for the very last time, I couldn't care less whether they are real or fake. I have no vested interest in this. I bought a freakin' card, and tryed to find out a little about it, and contribute something to the hobby. I will never do that again.

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: David VarghaBut Mike, Isn't it true that you investment banker types have pitchforks? DavidVargha@hotmail.com

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: jay behrensDavid, you are wrong about the pitch fork. They've just sold their soul to the devil. The pitchfork is extra :-p Jay I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: fkwOnly 16 of the 83 (known/listed) players look to be Cuban players. While 67 of the 83 players are American Baseball Stars and/or Hall of Famers. You have a Frank Robinson (played 1956-1976) and a Wee Willie Keeler (played 1892-1910) in the same set????. Then you have big name, potentially big $$ cards, like Dihigo, Ruth, Paige, Charleston, Cobb, Williams, and Gibson in this group. To me a Keeler, Marsans, or Charleston made no earlier than mid 1956 looses some of its demand. Weird <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Frank

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: davidthe player selection always worries me, and i was waiting for others to confirm my suspicions. keeler seems to be out of place and there are scant cuban league players except for several very high profile players toss in some minor american HOF and it just doesnt seem right. i would like to see pictures of all the cards also if possible to see what the picture selection is for all of the cards. what team is frank robinson shown with for instance? additionally the apparent lack of continuity of the design should also be troublesome, even for a proof set. also, why would a proof set have advertising on the back>?

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: barrysloateNot being an expert on Cuban cards, but having some experience with them, I've sat back and watched this thread unfold. However, after seeing the checklist I do have some questions about the merit of this set. Let's assume they are real for a moment: it is still a mishmash of players from all different eras with no rhyme or reason as to why they were grouped together. It is reminiscent of the 1960-61 Fleer sets that commemorate players whose careers have long past. I think a distinction has to be made between fine period sets such as Billiken and Aguilitas and this concoction that honors players deceased, living, current, and retired. And that's assuming they are real. Even in the best of circumstances it does not strike me as a very significant set.

Cuban "Polar" Cards

Posted By: mike campbellNo I don't use a pitchfork, I use a 42 ounce Louisville Slugger. By the way, if anyone hasn't had a chance to tour through their factory in Louisville, it is quite interesting. I was through there recently. And yes, I too noticed the disparity in players, and time periods. But again, just reporting what I found out. I am not the judge here. But I do agree, it is an odd assortment of players. When I added that list, I knew controversy would ensue. No more Polar messages from me.