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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>he's pretty cute, too...<br /><br />Yeah, it's painful to think that people with a lot of dough might care just as much, if not more, about collecting cardboard than us less fortunate people. Truth...<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p> there are more collectors who do not have a lot of money,who collect cards hoping to turn a quick buck and don't give a hoot about the game. the collectors who have plenty of money do not need to make money on cards.they have plenty of money. of course there are some with tons of cash, but believe me there are a lot of collectibles that rich folks desire for social status then 100 year old pieces of cardboard. most, if not all the high end collectors who post here love their cards as much as i love mine.

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Posted By: <b>Al Crisafulli</b><p>Hal, I am still new here and I don't know you, but CONGRATULATIONS on an amazing card. What a dynamite thing to have in any collection. It is a beautiful, beautiful card.<br /><br />In terms of the multimillionaire thing, well, like the subject line says: who cares? If a multimillionaire likes to horde cards and can't tell you their history, who cares? If a guy making $15K likes to spend ten bucks a month on 1991 Upper Deck, who cares?<br /><br />Does it really matter to anyone - besides the individual collector - what someone's motivation is for liking what they like? It still baffles me why people get so riled up over people's motivations for collecting what they collect.<br /><br />If I were a multimillionaire, I'd buy a Wagner. And I'd be able to tell you a lot about the card. I'd also buy a nice car, and I'd love it. And I can't change an air filter. Not sure what that says about me, but apparently it says something very important.<br /><br />-Al<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Mike Pugeda</b><p>ditto what Al said

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Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>

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Posted By: <b>Zach</b><p>your's is nice an all but.....<br /><a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1753/wagy3ss.jpg" border="0" width="395" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" /></a>

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p>Al which side are agreeing or disagreeing with? Looks like you jumped from one side to the other and then went to the outside and said both sides were wrong in disagreeing with each other.Hard to be wrong when you take all 3 sides so im agreeing with Al whether hes saying im wrong or right.<br /><br />In all honesty,i know a collector(not personally but thru someone else) who makes as much as anyone on the board and bought cards because he was basically talked into it.He doesnt directly buy cards,he actually has someone do all his buying.I dont think you can call that passion and im pretty sure if you asked him to name something about the player on the card he wouldnt be able to tell you anything past what the card obviously points out.If you call buying as many cards as he wants a passion then no one could possibly collect cards and not be passionate about them.<br /><br />Basically if you make up your own definitions to help your own story then you can always be right so im not saying anything else about it in this thread or continuing to read the thread because its gotten ridiculous.Refer back to my car analogy if you have any questions of what i mean because thats the best i can explain it. I'll never believe that percentage wise more than 4 out of 5 people who have lots of money and collect cards really do it because they love baseball

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Hal, I like your's better than the Psa-8. It shows more character!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted By: <b>Al Crisafulli</b><p>Hi John:<br /><br />No, I'm not jumping from side to side, maybe I'm just not being clear. That happens to me sometimes.<br /><br />I do not think a passion for baseball is a prerequisite for collecting baseball cards. Frankly, I do not think there is ANY prerequisite for collecting baseball cards, other than to have the means to get the cards you decide to collect.<br /><br />I'm not going to begrudge a millionaire who decides to start a collection to add to his belongings the right to do it, and I'm not going to grumble about his reasons. I don't care if someone collects shiny cards, reprints, PSA-8s, SGC-92s, raw cards, 19th century cards, or Charlie's Angels cards. This is a really big hobby. We all collect for different reasons, and mine are no more right than anyone else's.<br /><br />I hope that made more sense than my last post.<br /><br />But this thread is about Hal's Wagner, and I'm sorry I participated in its hijacking. Congratulations again, Hal!<br /><br />-Al

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Posted By: <b>WP</b><p>Jim,<br /> You are sadly mistaken to think that Charlie Mekkel Marshall Fogel and Don L have the best card collections. My votes go to Keith Olberman Mark Macrae and Richard Masson just to name a few. Marshall and Charlie for the most part have a bunch of mainstream sets in plastic no nineteenth century and no e or t cards to speak of.<br /> Congrats hal that is a great card and looks like a high end one if there is such a thing.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Wally, you have to remember that collections like Macrae's and other's that are unslabbed don't really exist in the eyes of Jim. If it isn't in the population report, then it can't possibly be real. This would ruin his investment in high grade low pop cards if they did.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Let me be the first to say that there are DEFINITELY a lot of guys out there who spend MORE than I do on cards every year... and who DEFINITELY love the hobby as much or more than I do. <br /><br />In fact, if not for those pioneers, I would probably have never had the guts to spend so heavily on cards, regardless of how much I love them.<br /><br />My only hope...<br /><br />is that someday THOSE guys will find a way to SHARE their collections with all of us via the internet.<br /><br />They could EASILY put their best and rarest items up for display on a website and they would NEVER have to disclose anywhere WHO owns the cards or WHO owns the website. They could just register it through one of the anonymous holding companies.<br /><br />Think how GREAT it would be if we DID know EVERYTHING that is out there in all of those mysterious cellars and attics!!!<br /><br />I know that I get a JOY out of visiting everyone ELSE'S collections on the web, like Leon, JC, Andy, etc.<br /><br />SO...<br /><br />I am hoping that more of the big time collectors will follow my lead and SHOW the World their cool stuff.<br /><br />If they want to remain anonymous, then that is perfectly fine... but at least let us know what is out there and what it looks like!!!<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>WP,<br /><br />If you define best as having a lot of older cool cards as most on this board would do you are right. If you define it as monetary value of their collection you are mistake. Don has the best T206 set in existence, Charlie has the best 1933 Goudey, Don has the best M116 set. But I guess you are defining these as mainstream.<br /><br />Jim

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>I thought he was clear the first time. He is saying, I think, that it's a big world and people shouldn't worry so much about what other people are doing and why.

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Posted By: <b>WP</b><p>Actually I was thinking value. The best 33 Goudey set 500k? 700k? Have you seen the prices on E107s Old Judges Baltimore news just to name a few things? Large groupings of theses cards could easily fetch into the millions now.

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>Collectors show you what they have; investors tell you what they're worth. <br /><br />I don't find it bragging or boasting when someone shows a beautiful, high-end card;I love being able to see this kind of stuff. It's when I'm reminded of the amount of money spent and the value of the card that I get put off.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Mark Evans</b><p>Congrats, Hal, from one board member to another. Hope to meet you at a "National." Mark

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>to show people, but the shrink kept asking "How much did you pay for that?" or "How much is your collection worth?" so I stopped. Really bugged me.

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Posted By: <b>steve k</b><p>Outstanding! Big congrats on getting the Holy Grail <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Damian Grammont</b><p>Congrats Mr. Lewis<br /><br />Wow, i just wanted to thank you and everyone else on the boards that share there collections with everyone. It is so fun look see these rare/old cards. Though i won't ever get anything like these i still have my "Wagner" from when i was younger, 84' Donruss Mattingly <br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />not quite as rare.<br /><br />Congrats and Thank you all again<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>Great job Hal, enjoy!

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Posted By: <b>Paul Arpasi</b><p>Your my hero and I don't really even know you. It was John Glenn, but, now its you. Best wishes.<br /><br />Paul

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Posted By: <b>Robert</b><p>at least Hal's card i s not trimmed...

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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I've been out of town and missed the big news.<br /><br />Huge congrats to you Hal. What a great card! I am really happy that you decided to go for it.<br /><br />As for the millionare thing, I know a few of the real big collectors out there and I can garuntee they are all passionate about the cards and the hobby. Some are regular posters here. Others are regular lurkers. Others are probably unaware of this site. It is ridiculous to presume that because somebody has a lot of money and can afford to buy cards many others cannot that they are necessarily less passionate about the cards or the hobby. That is simply nonsensical.<br /><br />JimB

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Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>But it appears that most are ignoring his response and enjoying the opportunity to climb their soapboxes, so here it is again.<br /><br />John's post:<br /><br />&lt;&lt;Not to put words in James mouth, Peter,but the people he was referring to are probably not the same people you think its unfair to say that about.He didnt say all the others nor do i believe he meant it that way because its obvious theres other people with money who dont collect just for profit.Just like any other large hobby theres people who buy only for social status among collectors or for profit and dont know a thing about the players theyre collecting.Its obvious by looking at Hal's site hes not one of those people and thats what he was probably trying to say.<br /><br />I wouldnt try to make an issue over it in a thread that obviously wasnt meant for that purpose&gt;&gt;

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Posted By: <b>ockday</b><p>Beautiful card...congrats and good luck!<br />Now what happened to that guy who kept saying that SGC 10's or PSA 1's were never going to be worth buying?<br /><br />Alan

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Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>i've been out of pocket for several days and just now got to smile happily when<br />checking out the forum and seeing Hal's acquisition.<br />thanks, Hal; i'm mighty happy to see a fellow floridian with such<br />a grand find and top drawer collection.<br /><br />all the best<br /><br />barry arnold

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Posted By: <b>pete</b><p>i make a "meesly" $50k a year and if i had $91,000 in the bank i'd buy that card...after reading all those posts, i dont see where "multi-millionaire" made a difference on a $90k purchase...i envy you hal!<br /><br />one question, will honus be displayed in your home or laying flat in a security box in a bank?

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Pete:<br /><br />Alas, it will be in the safe deposit box.<br /><br />And while $91,000 would have bought the card in 2003... it would not in 2005.<br /><br />I definitely should have bought it back then. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>What? You aren't going to crack it out and hold it - if only for a moment. This is a serious part of card collecting history that you have been seperated from for far too long. Why self impose a continuation of your sentence?<br /><br />It is not like you are likely to damage it so severely that it will never regrade - heck, a card with your pedigree does not even need grading.

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Posted By: <b>Jerry Spillman</b><p>BMW Sportscards is offering to sell this T206 Wagner card through Naxcom.Com. Is this correct?<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=bmw_cards" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=bmw_cards</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.naxcom.com/book.do?bookID=1343981" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.naxcom.com/book.do?bookID=1343981</a><br />

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Posted By: <b>MW</b><p>Jerry,<br /><br />That's incorrect. Your link to Naxcom shows an SGC 10 T206 Honus Wagner but it's a buy order on Naxcom, not a sell order.

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Well Hal I hope you don't fall off your pedestal now that you have crossed that purist line and mentioned something about the cost of the card.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>All I said was that it "cost more than a breadbox."<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Well in Hal's defense, both times in this thread he merely made reference to the cost/value of the card but never said how much he paid.

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>"And while $91,000 would have bought the card in 2003... it would not in 2005."<br /><br />Is that not a statement about the card's cost? <br />

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Yes... and that statement is about as vague as "it's bigger than a breadbox."<br /><br />Considering that FIVE T206 Wagners have sold for more than $91,000 since 2003...<br /><br />I didn't think that my statement was telling anybody anything that they didn't already know.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Again, much like his statement above, <b>Unfortunately for me... this was NOT one of those cards that have depreciated since Dec. 2003.</B>, it does not say how much he spent which would be a true posting violation.<br /> <br />

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>My point was not to criticize Hal. On the infamous locked thread, I complemented him for having both passion and a keen sense of values, and I stand by that. My real point is that it seems people have a double standard here, Jim Crandall starts a post about card values and people jump on him like he is the antichrist because supposedly the "true collectors" here couldn't care less what cards cost or are worth, but Hal makes statements concerning the cost of the Wagner yet noone noone seems to mind.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Well, I've been away all summer and just got back today. Looks like Hal picked up a great card while I was gone (I thought the hobby stopped when I left for vacation) so let me congratulate you too. I once owned a poor condition Wagner - the one Leland's sold recently with the upper left corner missing. I bought it in 1986 for $8250 and sold it less than two years later for about $18K. Should I have kept it a little longer? I guess so.

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Agreed. Jim was beaten to a pulp for no reason at all for merely placing actual numbers in his posts. Jim clearly did not deserve to be mistreated like. Jim does not share Hal's God-like status on this board probably because his collection is not old enough.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Let me be the first to agree with Greg and say that Jim should not have been ripped for posting about dollars. The board is for everyone and should be open to all topics.<br /><br />And... as a newly appointed God...<br /><br />I forgive all of those who ripped Jim.<br /><br /><img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>except of course the reprint and cut-out purveyors. <br /><br />How long till you pry Leon's T231 away, Hal?

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Adam:<br /><br />It would be cheaper for me to start a national petition to remove Home Run Baker from the HOF...<br /><br />than it would be for me to purchase Leon's "FAN CIGS" Home Run Baker card!!

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>He said "God-like," without a Josh Gibson you don't get official status as a deity.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Thank you guys--I know how to fight back and I certainly will if it is allowed...but one thing I won't do again is do nothing while those two or three guys take pot shots at me(without even knowing who I am). <br /><br />I suspect I won't get an apology though.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>The only issue I ever had with what you were saying Jim was using the word "existence".....because if you don't know of every card in existence you just can't say that and be correct. If you were to say the best "graded" set in existence then that would be fine. I don't even say there's only 2 T231's....or 1 T231 speciman.....I always say "known" when talking about this stuff.....I think it's more technically correct that way...And yes I took a little flack for letting that other thread go but I gotta call it like I see it.....So far I have never deleted a post about me just about other people. Folks SHOULD be able to fight back.....and speak their minds....

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Barry, your Wagner sounds like same Wagner I was offer in 1982. Sadly, I was just a poor kid fresh out of high school on a meager military salary, so I couldn't afford the $4k price tag. Lord knows I tried to scrape up the cash, but came up short, so I bought a complete set of t201s in really great shape as a consolation prize along with some other assorted t-cards and Goudeys. I can honestly say that had I been able to purchase that card, I wouldn't have sold it along with the rest of my collection in 1991.<br /><br />Jim, don't worry, you won't be getting any apology from me. And once again, you make the comical statement about people passing judgement on you without knowing you, yet you have done that with me and several others. Pot...kettle...black...mean anything to ya?<br /><br />You have shown me that you don't care for anything beyond the slab and value of card. That may work for you and your friends, but that doesn't mean I, or anyone else has to like it. Just keep collecting the way that makes you happy, that's what it's all about.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Not to go too much more OT but the board has a tendency to embrace the gang mentality and attack members only when they are in a group. Jim posted nothing that warranted his being slammed. People do not have to like what he collects and that he even endorses PSA or the concept of grading but he is a fellow collector and above all a human being. Having a different opinion can be expressed without the virtual spitting in someone's face.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jay- it probably is, because it's a very easy card to document. Only one known Wagner has that particular corner problem.<br /> And for Hal, who proclaimed himself God- that's already my position. Could I at least be elected vice-God?

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Greg, I and several other memebers have found Jim to be very condecending, to say the least. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Hal,<br /><br />I feel so sorry for you. Some eagle eyed fellow thinks your card has corner problems. I see no problems whatsoever with that card. But if you see faults or problems, let me know... I could find space in a cigar box for that card.<br /><br />Just trying to help out,<br /><br />Frank.

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />I have never found Jim to be that way but I recognize that we all do not have the same experiences in life. It is none of my business what you and the others feel Jim has done that characterizes him as condescending but I don't see you and the others attacking other posters who repeatedly come off in that fashion.<br /><br />Greg

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>My full name is Halley B. Lewis.<br /><br />This is why there are hymns sung about me...as "Hallelujiah" is Hebrew for "Halley Lewis."<br /><br /><img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Likewise, the Lord's Prayer begins with a reference to me:<br /><br />"Our Father, who art in heaven, Halley B. thy name..."<br /><br /><img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />YES, I AM VERY RELIGIOUS, AND GOD KNOWS THAT I AM ONLY JOKING!!! No need to make any cracks about blasphemy. <br /><br />I know God, I have met God... and I, sir, am no God.

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>Ok, that was very insightful... I'll never be able to say the Lord's prayer again without thinking of Honus Wagner...<br /><br /><br /><br />Fred- this question was a party foul <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Does anyone know what the Hal he is talking about? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I think Hal a few more beers into the weekend than I am already.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />I and several members have found you to be a real jerk.<br /><br />What a freakin attitude.

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Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>Leon and Brian<br /><br />Is this what we mean by no personal atacks?

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Posted By: <b>rodney king</b><p>NO!!!!! Slap fights are just more fun than reading about another obscure old card like the one Hal got. As far as I can tell, it is just another low-grade card not worth slabbing (hey, that Adam is out of here and someone had to say it) <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>bkasel</b><p>Can I join in?<br /><br />I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.<br /><br />Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!<br /><br />Thanks for all the bickering, and name calling, I think I will watch the Holy Grail tonight.<br /><br />Hal, your Wagner is beautiful. Congratulations on a job well done!<br /><br />Bill <br />"The beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad, so I had one more for dessert"

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>That kid was a horse's patoot if ever there was one.

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Posted By: <b>Damian</b><p>Father Cavanaugh: Son, in 35 years of religious study, I have only come up with two hard incontrovertible facts: there is a God, and I'm not Him.<br /><br />neither is Hal apparently<br /><br />he is one of the card collecting gods though<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>R. Cook</b><p>So you're still wondering why so many people don't even care to post here?<br /><br /><br />Hal, exquisite card - congrats!<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>pete</b><p>hal, would you ever consider doing a "walk-through-re-slab" with any grading company just to hold it??? i'd pay the fee to be there....<br />pete-

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>..to hold what?

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>"So you're still wondering why so many people don't even care to post here?" WHAT? <br />Leon, is this true? <br />People fear posting here?<br /><br />People, we aren't always going to get along. When you get together with your family for the holidays, isn't there that one relative you dread being around? Both Jay and Jim are adults and active members of this Board. They can fend for themselves. There are some "ugly" Collecting Forums out there where the moderator dude doesn't keep a close eye on the situation and things get out of control. <br /><br />Jim isn't quite a "Moraine" (it's now a verb), but I see where people on this Board can find offense in his beliefs and how he states things. <br /><br />DJ<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jim; <br /> <br />On several occasions I have asked questions or posted a different view, which may conflict with your view. I have even disagreed with you on several occasions, that is the nature and purpose of a discussion board (to discuss things). <br /><br />My views or thoughts about you as a person was my opinion, I came to this conclusion after reading many of your posts, could I be wrong I hope so. If I have come to the wrong conclusion about you I’m sorry, but the more I see from you the more I tend to validate my original opinion of you. <br /><br />Have I taken some shots at you? Yes I have. Do I feel sorry? No, you have made several off the cuff comments and statements towards people myself included that were rude, wrong and just plain silly. Yet those people aren’t crying the blues or having a select group of people throwing candle light vigils for them. It’s a 2-way street Jim you can post what ever you like, but don’t get you feelings hurt when people disagree with you. <br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>For the record everyone knows that Hal is not a God! Everyone knows that Hal is a collecting super computer with enormous last second ebay outbidding power! <br /><br />“Everything seems to be working fine Dr. Wagner” <br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/websize/hal%20copy.jpg"><br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Hey guys,<br />If it isn't about Hal's card then let's don't post it in this thread from this post on out. Really ya'll do need to take the personal stuff to emails....thanks...btw, nice card Hal....

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Sorry Leon...<br /><br />I started all of this when I opened the Pod Bay doors.<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Gene Palmer</b><p>Congratulations Hal.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Dawson</b><p>Now THAT is a beautiful card! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Congratulations Hal!!!!!!<br /><br /><br />Steve<br />