What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>will watson</b><p>oh, and to the people who argue that there are many ungraded high end sets and singles in private collections....<br /><br />true, there probably are. but it won't matter at all unless they come up for sale. and most collectors (i'm making an assumption here) will probably hold on to their raw collections for many years to come. if they never see the light of day, they might as well not exist. of course if these guys decide to grade their cards and flood the market, the high grade/low pop values will plummet.<br /><br />i must ask: what would happen if everyone holding their E107's decided to cash in and sell? the market would become flooded (relatively, of course) and E107's would significantly decrease in price. on of the reasons those cards are so damn rare is because most are tucked away in private collections. <br /><br />same with high grade/low pops

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Hello,<br /><br />I would like to know what he paid for the Wagner, not to see how much Hal or his collection is/might be worth but to see what the market says a Wagner is worth. I wont ask, however, because my Mother taught me it is rude to do such a thing!<br /><br />I wish there were a Registry where certain high profile cards (like the Wagner) were listed, who the owner and previous owners were and how much it sold for each time it traded hands.<br /><br />There is a certain car that I like (1938 Talbot-Lago) of which only 9 or so were made and they have both the Serial numbers and the previous owners listed, if known.

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>Will-<br /><br />There are millions of dollars of vintage [pre-war] cards that come up for sale every year. Rob Lifson and Mastro seem to handle a few million a piece in pre-war cards.<br /><br />I think your analysis about E107s is slightly incorrect. If <i>any</i> set had all the owners sell, of course supply would be saturated. That being said - I think there is sufficient demand out there for E107s relative to supply to not worry about relative price decreases. The same cannot be said for other vintage pre-war sets. There are frankly less E107s out there than there are any of the T-206 "toughies".<br /><br />There is sufficient liquidity in the market. As prices rise, and some collectors age - some decide to sell. Where else can such vintage treasures be unearthed every 3 months in Mastro and annually by Lifson and others? <br /><br />If you believe in the free market - and generally believe that there are few out there hoarding any specific card or set - they you would have to believe that prices as they are today are "in line" with where they should be. In that context, a VG E107 card is often worth more than a NM T-206 counterpart. The same can be said for numerous vintage sets that are not named T-206 or Cracker Jack.<br /><br />~ms

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>Al Crisafulli</b><p>I think that somewhere, there is somebody who has a monster collection that's been buying things privately for years and years, and none of us geniuses have any idea who it is - but HE/SHE has the most valuable collection out there.<br /><br />But in terms of known quantities, there are five guys that are being mentioned over and over again - however, I think we owe a look at the collection of the gentleman who has the largest presence on the SGC registry, as in my opinion, it ranks right up there with any of the people that have been mentioned in this thread.<br /><br />-Al

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>tobacco-r-us</b><p>The 1952 Topps Mantle closed at today? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Marc and others,<br /><br />If you have better estimates for set values I will update the above information--pass along the information. I'm sure some will love the updated data.<br /><br />On the request of one of the board members, I am going to put out a regular vintage card graded price update and the value of different collectors pre-war sets. This is done as a result of one of my attackers demands that I do not talk about pricing and values of collections. I am also taking requests so I can up with a comprehensive list of things we do not want him to talk about--ought to be a lengthy list.<br /><br />Jim

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Can I just get something off my chest -- I really dislike PSA. I have a genuine distate for the PSA product and label. I don't like the little red paper insert and I do not like the semi-transparent holders (do not get me started on the occasional plastic baggy). I also do not like that little PSA logo found in the corner. From their crap holders, to their inconsistent grading, to the people who live in the Matrix of the PSA Set Registry (there are no cards worth owning that are not already PSA graded), it is all just so evil and pretentious. <br /><br />And I think that's basically my problem. When I read a post about the value and good will that PSA brings to the world it makes me have to run from the room screaming before I mash my keyboard into my computer monitor. They are precisely what you would not want from a grading company if you were going to start one tomorrow from scratch. This is the most obvious thing in the collecting world -- the white elephant in the corner. And yet, because they have critical market share, it's like the big corporate monopoly that continues to keep steamrolling. But how anyone can continue to get behind such a vision is really beyond me.<br /><br />The problem is that there are people out there who have spent millions of dollars on the PSA product, that got too deeply invested in PSA before SGC started and before the real problems with PSA began to arise. These people cannot afford to get their cards out of PSA -- or at least, it would be very costly to get such a valuable collection out of PSA. So it stays there, perched at the top of a PSA set registry somewhere for all the world to see and marvel at. <br /><br />Only I don't marvel. All I can think of is that when I sent my 40 PSA graded T206 cards in to SGC for crossover status, only 30 made the cut. The other 10? Well, there was a trimmed card and a number of PSA 5's amd 6's that actually had creases that didn't get crossed over either. I hadn't seen the creases until SGC put a big black circle around them (through a plastic sheet of course). Trouble is, PSA didn't see them either -- or didn't care.<br /><br />So, when I see a PSA set registry, the first thing that comes to my mind is, "I wonder which 25% of those cards were trimmed or have creases." I can't escape it. <br /><br />And that is why I do not ascribe any certain value to a PSA collection. And that is why I do not buy PSA cards without having them immediately crossed over into an SGC holder.<br />

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Uh oh. As if this thread were not already long and controversial enough, I think we are now going to have the PSA vs. SGC debate for the tenth time at least.

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>T206 Collector,<br /><br />Interesting....and when I see cards not graded I say I wonder how many times that has been submitted and was rejected for grading and who is going to be the sucker that will actually buy the card.<br /><br />I agree that SGC is a better grading company than PSA. In fact I would rate PSA 3rd behind GAI. My friend Dave Forman has done a first class job since he took over.<br /><br />Where you are missing something is why collectors with large graded card collections don't switch companies.<br /><br />I would represent that collectors with large PSA graded card collections could cross their collections over to GAI for a nominal price. The publicity alone would be worth it for GAI. But with some exceptions(Dmitri for one and one of Marshall's sets) they haven't.<br /><br />Jim

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>Jim, I'm surprised by your comments about GAI. Let me ask a question to help see what you mean: do you think the average 1934 Goudey card in a GAI 8 holder is roughly equal to an average 1934 card in a PSA 8 holder?

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Cmoking,<br /><br />No I don't. It is at a discount.<br /><br />What I am saying is GAI would likely do a PSA/GAI conversion of a major collector's collection at a nominal price due to the publicity value.<br /><br />Jim

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Hey guys,<br />Let's reel this thread back in. When it jumps to the top and then you pull up the 80 posts and see it has nothing to do with the original topic, it can be frustrating....not that I necessarily want to go back to this original topic.......thanks a lot

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Cmoking,<br /><br />Per Leon, I think you ought to start another thread on this one. It is an interesting topic and I will answer on a separate thread.<br /><br />Jim

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Are you measuring the value in dollars???<br /><br /><br />I kinda like to think of the history of the little pieces of paper. I like a Johnson T206 with a pin-hole... did a kid see Johnson pitch?? Did his cigarette smoking uncle take him to the game and buy him that card?? The value is more than what a catalog, or eBay, or a registry indicates.<br /><br />I enjoy holding a card in my hand that is contemporary with when a player played... so I'm slightly annoyed that my only Connie Mack card is an E96, after his playing days. The value isn't "what I could sell it for", it is the enjoyment I get from possession, from sharing it with others on occasion, from the sense of history... I can look at the Mack card, and a T206 of Mr. McGraw, and I imagine this big long complicated family tree of managerial skill and style. Frisch played for McGraw. Durocher played for Frisch. Westrum played for Durocher. It isn't accidental, this baseball knowledge and skill. <br /><br />So quantify the value in dollars if you must. I wouldn't sell my M116 Tillie Shafer card for ten times book value. Wasn't he fine bench help for Mr. McGraw in 1912!<br /><br />As for plastic, it is not a tomb. These guys in plastic are not dead. A few years ago I added a hack saw to my collecting tools. I try to not buy cards in plastic prisons, but occasionally I do. And I carefully consider each little guy's charges, deem them wrongfully convicted, then free them from their prison. Screw the population counts! Free the innocent!<br /><br />Frank.

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>Al Crisafulli</b><p>Yep. I do. I also like raw.<br /><br />I can see a value in doing a graded set, and I can see a value in keeping a set raw. I have both.<br /><br />There are, in my opinion, a few primary reasons why people who have sets graded with PSA choose to keep them that way:<br /><br />1) They like them, OR<br />2) They think that the PSA slab makes the card more liquid, OR<br />3) They appreciate the third-party condition assessment, and want to stick with the market leader, OR<br />4) They realize that if they crossed their PSA sets, a large portion of the grades would drop and they would be out a lot of money.<br /><br />At the same time, there are, in my opinion, a few primary reasons why people who HATE grading prefer to keep their sets raw:<br /><br />1) They like them OR<br />2) They think that the slab takes all the fun and passion out of the hobby, and turns a great hobby into a commodities exchange, OR<br />3) The fact that a "3" can have sharp corners and a clean surface, and another "3" can look like it got hit by a truck is awfully frustrating OR<br />4) They realize that if they put their cards in holders, many of their "Near Mint" cards would find themselves in EX holders, and they would be out a lot of money.<br /><br />Personally, I could not care less who has the most valuable collection, and I even regret making my prior post about the SGC guy. The reality is that it really doesn't matter - I learned a long time ago that there's always someone out there who is richer, bigger, stronger, faster, better. Rather than looking around, I prefer to look forward.<br /><br />For the record, I have seen Jim Crandell's card collection. It is assembled and displayed with a passion and a love for the hobby that is matched by very few people that I've run across in the hobby. There are items in it that would shock you if you heard what they were, and I think those items speak volumes about his love for this hobby - but Jim's collection is Jim's business, and it's not my place to discuss it here or anywhere else. However, I will beg to differ with anyone who insinuates that Jim is not as passionate about collecting as anyone else, and I will be right. <br /><br />At the same time, I have seen many others who collect pre-war beaters - or modern ones, for that matter - who know as much and care as much about the hobby as anyone. Regardless of what anyone says, there are tons of high-grade raw cards out there, and raw collections sell for top dollar all the time. In terms of the liquidity of the rare prewar stuff, all you had to do was take a look at Tik & Tik or Scott Brockelman's tables in Chicago to see exactly how strong the market is for that type of stuff.<br /><br />What this discussion ALWAYS comes down to, in my opinion, is the part of human nature that causes people to think that THEIR way is the RIGHT way. It is so strong in this hobby that it creates enemies of people, it gets people kicked off message boards, and it causes arguments that will never, ever end.<br /><br />Ask Charlie Merkel and Keith Olbermann which of their collections are more valuable. I'll bet that both of them have the same response: "Who cares?" <br /><br />-Al

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>Al Crisafulli</b><p>Sorry, Leon, I didn't see your post until after my lengthy rant was over.<br /><br />I hate hijacking threads.<br /><br />-Al

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>RC McKenzie</b><p>Howdy, Jim. We don't have class systems in America. From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations as they say.. <br /><br />I wanted to go on record that I have outbid Larry Fritsch on ebay before. It was for some scrubby card and I think I was 3rd underbidder and he was fifth.

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p><i>All I can think of is that when I sent my 40 PSA graded T206 cards in to SGC for crossover status, only 30 made the cut. The other 10? Well, there was a trimmed card and a number of PSA 5's amd 6's that actually had creases that didn't get crossed over either. I hadn't seen the creases until SGC put a big black circle around them (through a plastic sheet of course). Trouble is, PSA didn't see them either -- or didn't care.</i><br /><br />But the point is, you didn't see them either. So I guess your beef with PSA is that they charge to miss creases, whereas you don't. So I am left wondering two things -- 1. How is it you purchased these card, looked at them (maybe even submitted them) and missed the creases? and 2. Why does it matter? If you were happy with your cards when you bought them, why should you be any less happy because PSA or SGC said the same or said something else? In fact, aren't you falling into the same $ trap that people claim Jim is in when you get upset because one third-party evaluates your cards to be more or less "valuable" than does another?<br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>To whomever asked what do I collect. literally it is a little bit of everything vintage since I am trying to acquire one card over every major leaguer that appeared on a card from 1908-45. The only modern cards I have in my collection are my childhood 1971 and 1972 Topps sets. I do buy the occasion pack of new cards just to take care of the occasional jones to open a pack, but that's it.<br /><br />I work 10 hour shifts that generally boring, so I get a lot of time to think which can be good or bad. I realized, as someone else pointed out, that not one person asked Hal how much payed and I can't recall the last time someone made a post bragging about how much they spent (usually what a great deal they got) or how valueable a card is.<br /><br />What impresses people here is knowledge and the advancement of that knowledge. When is the last time someone on the CU board made an announcement that they discoved an uncatalogued card or could prove that the date of issue of a set was wrong? These are things that impress people around here. Hell, I've got a collection that would rank dead last on your beloved registry, but I am pretty sure I've contributed far more to hobby in the past year in the form of uncatalogued cards and new variations than everyone combined on the registry.<br /><br />The people at the top of the registry have impressive collections, but what have they really contributed to the hobby besides ever increasing prices? This board is about knowledge, not $$$.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.<br /><br />My contribution to this useful and informative thread that has added so much to the hobby. <br /><br />-Ryan

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>tobacco-r-us</b><p>It's a comedy release.<br /><br />I can't see how anyone can take this thread serious. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

What is the most valuable vintage sportscard collection worth
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Here's the deal. I politely asked to get back on topic. Ya'll didn't. Start a new damn thread. I still think it was fine to talk about this subject if that's what a participant wants to talk about. It was interesting. As for grading companies and values between them (and ungraded) that is not the subject here...This one's done. Thanks......