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Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>Getting sad now. Adam has begun to call other people on their spelling/typing errors. Adam, you might want to check back through your own messages crowing about all the famous people you "have wrote to" before making any more such observations.<br /><br />And by the way, my collection is largely those beautiful low-grade cards you disparage-- which make me very happy. <br /><br />Why don't you try to find a board about vintage cards as investments. Maybe the PSA board would work for you (hint, hint)............

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Tim, I have wrote to baseball players using Jack Smallings autograph handbook. (www.smallingautographs.com) <br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>....is hardly groundbreaking news. Keep on collecting those PSA 4-10's and you may one day save enough money to purchase a round trip ticket from Des Moines to LaGuardia Airport in NYC, where you might just have enough left over for train rides to Greenwich and back to the airport. You'd probably have to get a connecting flight in Chicago, though, since I don't think Iowa has runways large enough to accomodate planes to fly you directly to the East Coast.<br /><br />Now let's hear about your $100,000 collection. What pre-war cards do you have in PSA 4 or better condition?<br />

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...are only available to people with incomes less than $100,000. So, where, pray tell, are you getting all this money to purchase your $1,000,000 collection?

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>I have already listed by PSA graded cards in an earlier post. I have only been collecting prewar for several months here's what I have. a dozen T-206's (including Crawford batting, Huggins port, rest commons, all chases' magie) Magie is corrected version though. 1941 Playball Mel Ott, 1934-1936 batter-ups of Hornsby and Cochrane. That's about all that I can think of right now, though. Without having to go through my cards and dig them out.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine <br /><br />ALL would grade vg, with the exception of Ott, he would probably grade ex/mt+<br />it's a real beauty

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Posted By: <b>Greg</b><p>There are no cowfields in Greenwich are there? Did George Foster sell you any of his old shoes? That should get you closer to your $1mil goal...then you can trade your collection to get that house you think is so great and rub elbows with neighbors who think you're a hayseed. You're making my day! Lets see some scans from that fabled "Iowa collection". To "talk" Mother Teresa and not "walk" Mother Teresa is a crime in CT.<br />GB

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I don't know whether I should just delete this thread or ask everyone to use their full names.....as per board policy. Any posts after this one, in this thread, really need to have some first and last names by them.....thanks

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>....and they made fun of my last name!

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Well, T-206 here is goes. I have been raised by my grandparents my entire life. My grandfather passed away Feb. of 2001 (diabetes) I have a GREAT disposable income, as I still live at home with my grandmother, and have minimal bills. (I pay water, cable, ADT home security, groceries, property taxes) My grandparents have lived in the same home since 1950. The house is paid for. The house wii be mine when my grandmother passes, which means I will NEVER have to buy a house or pay a mortage. (the house has NEVER been mortaged) I work 40-45 hours a week, as well.Hence, how I can afford to make these purchases.<br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine <br /><br />p.s. I also have custody of my daughter, as well. Partial apologies to Paul Mifsud, for calling him Paul MILFSTUD (I would not be complaining about that one though)

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I took care of that post....any other derogatory comments will be deleted as well. Anymore posts in this thread without first and last name will be deleted too....and I am about a click away from getting rid of this thread....I would have already but it's slightly amusing..... Thanks for your understanding.....

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Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>this thread is great! it's like a male soap opera (whatever that means)...<br /><br />to keep it on topic i would reiterate that alot of what people collect here are so scarce that even a G or VG item is considered high end, if they ever do come up.<br /><br />quannimir (low-end collector personified)

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>I may oust Mr. Mint, and offically have the title of "Longest Bashed Thread" Just because I think, PSA 1,2,3 are hardly worth collecting. Geez, have you guys have seen what these cards look like.(someone post me some scans of PSA 1,2,3)Would any of the major auction houses/auctions want them in there auctions? With the exception of The Ruth, or T-206 wagner.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Adam;<br /><br />You’re getting upset because you feel people are suggesting you collect stuff other than what you’re proud of right? I don’t blame you, you should be proud of what you have. As should each and every collector here. <br /><br />However Adam by saying how silly people are by purchasing low to mid-grade cards is just a nasty a thing to say, your basically telling them they don’t know how to collect which is very rude. I’m embarrassed about my collection compared to some of the collections here, I wouldn’t have the balls to throw down like you have, saying I have one of the top collections, regardless of what state I’m in. And the attitude and the way you have done it has taken away from your collection which is a shame, because I’m sure it’s very nice. <br /><br />Adam people buy items for the fun of it believe it or not. I bought a nice car a year or two ago, I will guarantee you I will lose money on the deal when all said and done. But I don’t care. I have a (Small) bass boat I sink money into all the time, because I enjoy fishing not because I plan on becoming a professional bass fisherman or selling the boat for a profit. People collect cards for the same reason. <br /><br />Be proud of your stuff man, but don’t tell everyone here how there wasting their fun money by doing something they love and enjoy. <br /><br />I may be too old to post on this topic as I turned 30 last year. I had most of my collection by the time I was 19, and before anyone throws down. I came from a regular working class family and collected with little or no budget. Three yrs ago I bought my first 2 cards that were over the 5k mark, and I felt every bit of the 5k. Do I have a good job now (yes) do I plan on spending more money (yes) will I retire a millionaire (No) well at least not from baseball cards. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>man this is a great thread - personally, let me add this - I have the greatest collection in the room in which I am currently typing.<br /><br />Adam - there are some very nice 1,2 and 3 grade cards if you search hard enough. Unfortunately I am out of town and cant post the scan, but I have an sgc 30 or 40 (cant remember now) e121 eddie collins with four of the sharpest corners you will ever see. It looks like like a 9 and likely would be if not for an imperceptible wrinkle across the back of the card. It is one of the many nice examples of a low grade card that I own.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Some of the stuff makes me LMAO which I really need today (having a back problem). <br /><br />Lemme see if I can recap: Adam, Jr. from IA who lives with his grammy and earns a bodacious enough living to put money into a Roth IRA has a few vintage cards and suddenly is enough of an investment guru to tell people who've been collecting for 10-20-30 or more years and who spend five figures per auction that only high grade slabbed stuff is worth investing in and that cards in low grade are worthless as investments. He then insists that this is true despite wave after wave of advanced collectors who collect these "worthless" items posting their contrary opinions and willingness to purchase those "worthless" items. <br /><br />Adam, Jr., three things you will learn over time: (1) There is always someone out there smarter and better funded than you, (2) It pays to keep an open mind, and (3) Try not to take yourself so seriously; if you blow a gasket before you're 50 it won't matter how much your portfolio is worth because you won't be able to spend it. <br /><br />Good luck on your quest to be a millionaire...Somehow, I think it's gonna be interesting

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Sorry Warshaw I did not go to law school, and I do make the deep, six-figures you make. (aren't you the attorney who defends Corporations? or is that Josh?) I had the pleasure to email Josh Krasner several days ago. I have a lot of respect for him) <br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine <br /><br />John (wonkaticket) Your post hit the nail on the head. THANK-YOU! Also, I checked out your web site,AWESOME cards. I LOVED the Anson N300!

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Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>I have enjoyed this thread thoroughly.<br /><br />The last paragraph of warshawlaw's post is the total and utter truth. <br /><br />D. Studebaker

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>"The last paragraph of Warshaw's post is the total and utter truth".<br /><br />Is that a fact, Mr. Studebaker, or your and Warshaw's opinions? PLEASE provide me, EVIDENCE that will support your claims.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>All I can say if I wanted to listen to children spout about asperations, I can listen to my own 15 year olds. Adam, Portfolio and money, will not make you happy. And bragging about what you will have, makes no one else happy. I'd stick to collecting and enjoying. Trust me, little things in life are what will make you happy, not a big house or a bankroll. You may not see it now, but 1 day you will. BTW, I totally enjoy my T206's in any condition. out<br><br>"I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

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Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>In the immortal words of Thomas Paine "Time makes more converts than reason" I think we ought to let time do it's job and leave Adam be. I don't think any amount of reasoning is going to convert this young fella.<br /><br />Adam, good luck in your quest to be a millionaire. I don't think that is an unworthy goal, but be careful how you tread on other people in your quest.<br /><br />Dan

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Boy, this is a funny thread but it really is reaching full maturity. My thoughts to all concerned:<br /><br />1) Youth is wasted on the young.<br /><br />2) Adam, we all appreciate your lofty goals. And most of us appreciate your relatively young age in our responses. I don't think you meant any ill will.<br /><br />3) Should your collection generate hundreds of thousands of dollars someday, you'll have no shot living in Greenwich, CT. The garages go for 500K and a decent size, 4000 square foot house costs between 2.5-3 million bucks. <br /><br />4) Being a millionaire by the time you are 50 will not necessarily make you rich. I was a millionaire by the age of 30. I'm 40 now and I don't feel rich. Things cost more than they used to. Remember when Dr. Evil threatened mayhem on the world unless he was paid "1...millllion dollars!" That was a joke in the movie referencing the falling value of the dollar over time. It was funny because it was true.<br /><br />5) Unless you have incredible luck, the chances of you making any serious, serious cash in life will rest in your day job. It's the day job that allows people to buy expensive cards. <br /><br />6) Adam, be nice and more sensitive to others concering their life choices and finances. There will always be someone richer than you and happier than you. You wouldn't want them ridiculing you. And money does not make the man. Trust me on this one: life is short and focusing just on money makes for a hollow, empty life.<br /><br />7) Don't treat baseball cards as a money-making venture. It takes away all the joy from the collecting much like betting on ball games takes away from the pure enjoyment of the sporting event. I started collecting cards as a small boy and I've just been blessed with twins. I'm more excited about giving them the actual cards I collected as a child than I am about giving them my top ten PSA registry sets from the 50s, each worth more than a new Corvette.<br /><br />Ok, those are the tips for the day. Now can we lock this thread?

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Thank-you, for your posts Mr.Lichtman and Mr. Bretta. I appreciate it.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Dear mr. Luckey,<br /><br />Please go ahead and lock this thread. I have already expressed enough angst, and voiced MY opinions concerning PSA 1,2,3, more than enough, already. Thank-you, to Mr. Bretta,and John Mc Daniel for you kind words and Mr. Lichtman, for your support, and belief in myself achieving my # 1 goal in life, To become a millionaire by age 50. To all I offended, an apology to all who were offended by my views. SORRY!<br /><br />best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I would lock it but I think you recovered fairly nicely AND I don't want to "not" ( I know a double negative ) let folks voice an opinion. I am 43 and boy do I remember being in my 20's. A whole lot of times I stuck my foot square in my mouth. I still do but less often. I remember saying things like you have said in this thread. Even though I am sure you meant no harm they just don't look (or sound) right. Becoming a millionaire by the time you are 50 is a nice goal. As pointed out the older you get the less that will matter. You don't need to believe me but trust me it's true. I work some long hours now (when I am not moderating) and my favorite thing in life is going home to my wife and 8 yr old. I told my wife I have to work late tonight and she was disappointed because my little 8 yr old girl didn't get to play with me last night and won't get to much tonight. That's what's important in life....at least to me....now if I could just find an oval framed D380, even in a 1 condition, I would be real happy. regards

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Dear Mr. Luckey, <br /><br />I understand perfectly well. I ended up in a cutody battle with my ex-girlfriend, which lasted 17 months. I were awarded the case on Feb.18,2005. I am now raising our two year old daughter, Abigail Charlotte Moraine. BELIEVE ME, I went through 17 months of pure hell. But if Abby didn't matter to me, I would not have fought like hell, for her in order to give her the life that she deserves. Despite the fact, it cost me 13K in attorneys' fees, it was very well worth it.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine <br />

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Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>1) Warren Buffett is smarter and more well funded than you are.<br /><br />2) If there is someone out there smarter then you, you have something left to learn and need an open mind to learn it.<br /><br />3) Article on workaholic scientists dying young; not that I am accusing you of being a scientist or an academic. <a href="http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-07/03/content_345190.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-07/03/content_345190.htm</a> <br /><br />On a positive note, thank heavens there is still so much for everyone to learn. If one knew everything, life would be pretty boring.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Rousseau</b><p>kinda reminds me of the scene in that Steve Martin movie where- flush with his new found wealth- he warns a waiter "And don't go bringing us any of that OLD wine! We want the NEW stuff!"<br /><br />I don't devote as much of my spare $$ to collecting as the majority here do, but I share an interest in old cards. Old, as in pre WW I. And I love seeing what people have to show, and hear about their collecting trials and tribulations, and learning about pre WW I players and the early history of the game from the cards people talk about. Since most of the threads here are devoted to pre WW I, I doubt there will be much of interest to you on this site, Adam.<br /><br />I've got some T206s that are in great condition- and I marvel at them, cause I think "How did this card stay in this great condition after all those years?" But what I most like thinking about when I look at them (and this is also the case for the ones that aren't in all that great shape)- is how some guy go this out of a tobacco pack nearly 100 years ago, and now here I am looking at it. What did he do for work? What did he do for leisure? What kind of car did he drive? What did the shop he bought the pack at look like? What made him set this aside- was it the first that he decided to hold onto? Did he go see Ty Cobb and Walter Johnson play? <br /><br />If my goal was to make as much money as I could in as little time as I could from investments, I'd invest in real estate. The $2,500 Babe Ruth cut signature card that you have might double in 10 years if you're lucky (they're becoming more and more common each year). A good piece of property in 10 years should get you much more than $2,500 more. Adam, you're going to inherit your grandmother's house? Rather than just waiting for that to fall into your lap, why don't you get rid of your cards and buy property- if accruing as much jack as possible is actually your goal. As I recall, Barry Halper had a job of some kind with the Yankees organization and got a lot of items autographed through that job. But it wouldn't surprise me that if he had put the time and financial resources he did into the hobby into real estate, he probably would've made a fortune on that- very likely a bigger fortune. From what I gather, he wasn't trying to do that- he was collecting the material cause he loved the history of it all- not cause he was thinking "CHA CHING". <br /><br />Buying cards for me is not about investment- it's about buying works of art and holding onto a piece of history. And that art will increase in value somewhat, but again- if investment was my primary goal even in buying art, I would buy paintings. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Mr. Rousseau, <br /><br />Thank-you, for your post. As I mentioned in the featured article, I DO NOT sell or trade any of my cards. I just can not do it right now. When I look at my cards , I think of my grandfather and I going to card shows,spending time together, and such. The way you feel about the T-206's is the same way I feel about our house. Five generations of my family has lived in this house. I think about the history of the home, as well. it's an older home. (built in 1886) EVERYTHING is original, and NOTHING has been restored. I absolutely LOVE IT! I have hopes of SOMEDAY finding N172's and N162's in the attic. I have not looked...YET (LOL) <br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I mostly litigate construction and real estate cases on behalf of cheated consumers. Lately because of the run-up in real estate prices I am doing a lot of neighbor dispute cases over boundaries--land is so expensive that people are expanding existing homes rather than buying new ones and that extra few feet is really getting to be important. Have gun, will travel. <br /><br />I second the views expressed here as to the importance of family. I wanted to be a millionaire by 40, retired at 50. Whoops! Once the baby came along I decided to be home for dinner by 6:00 every evening with my daughter and wife unless some A-hole judge refused to let me out of a settlement conference. I could earn more if I worked more hours but if I don't have the time enjoy my family and home, why bother?

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p><img src="http://home.insightbb.com/~scantland/10779Wagner_1_mk.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Adam, impressive collection for a 24 y.o., but at 24 I had a collection that would have put your's to shame. And it was almost all vintage cards. And no, I do not have that collection anymore. <br /><br />There really is no point in arguing over what is the best way to invest. Each person needs to decide what they are comfortable with. I haven't seen anything you've listed in your collection that warrants a $100k valuation. My insurance agent told be to insure my collection for $25k even though it might be worth $10k at most. Insured value and real value are two very different things.<br /><br />Just to give you an idea of what kind of money can be made on "crappy" cards, Since I returned to the hobby in 2002 I have maticulously tracked the purchase and sale price of every card I've owned. I currently have 208 cards in my collection, including the m101-5 Thorpe and 30 HOFers including Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Matty, Johnson and others. Most of my "commons" are players from tough sets like Old Mill, Contentnea, etc. Total cost to date, subtracting sales from purchases is $1489.36. Guess those beat up, crappy old cards aren't worth buying at all.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: <b>Anson Lytle</b><p>This is my thread that got hijacked so I'll chime in again. <br /><br />I won't jump in with "Here it goes" as it's starting to sound cliche.<br /><br />Adam, you have some nice stuff, no qualms about it. I can appreciate your opinion even though it's different than many on here, including myself. There's no harm in you chasing after higher graded stuff. I think that a lot of the experienced folks on here are trying to point out that PSA 3 T206 Wagners are a VERY solid investment as are PSA anything caramel Cobbs. Why? Because there are far fewer than any of the autographs that you own. If we all knew what the best LONG TERM investments were, we would have worked Wall Street 20 years ago. <br /><br />The truth of it is, people know a lot more about cards and other collectibles. The potential for the items we collect is a huge question mark. Many of us collect what we like because we can't afford to get lost in the guessing of it all. Beanie Babies were a great investment five years ago. Needless to say, there are a lot of people stuck with bins of stuffed beanbags rotting away under their beds.<br /><br />It's great that you're proud of your collection. We all are. I just hope that you don't feel that you need to boast about your collection to feel better about yourself. The value is in the person, not in what they own. Enjoy your collection for what it is, not for how much it impresses others. If it ends up being worth a lot someday, that's great. But be able to enjoy it even if it doesn't.<br /><br />BTW, I have the best looking SGC E101 Cobb you've ever seen!<br /><br />Anson

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p> What a great question!!! Who was the first to hold the T206's I now treasure so much. Did he trade with other collectors that enjoyed the HOBBY as much as we do. Did he have a favorite player that he was hoping to get? Was he asking his friends to save the cards for him? Did he carry his favorite in the inside pocket of his suit coat and pull it out at a ball game and show it to the guy sitting next to him? I will wonder these things every time I look at them. Out<br><br>"I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>The most shocking thing I've read on this thread is the fact that Adam spent only 13K on attorneys' fees during a 17 month litigation. Adam, here's another reason you should strongly consider avoiding Greenwich: it's close to NYC and lawyers like me. If I had my claws in you for 17 minutes -- not 17 months -- it would cost you 13K....<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Great Question, Joe. You are right, when we hold T-206's in our hands we are holding baseball history in our hands. I am holding something that my great-grandfather could have held. When I hold my T-206's, and my Batter-ups of Cochrane, and Hornsby I could be holding something that a war hero could have held in there hands. THAT is what I repect about our HOBBY. Joe, could you PLEASE post a scan of your E-101 Cobb? I would love to see it!<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />My ex-girlfriends' court appointed, legal aid attorney thought he were cocky a!@# also, I shredded him to pieces at our custody trial, which lasted two days. He had the nerve to come up to me, after the two day trial ended, extended his hand for me to shake it. I gave him my half smile, turned my back and walked away from him.leaving him with his hand extended, I would have done the same to you, as well.But he tried to portray me as something other than, a concerned father, who was concerned for his daughters'safety and well being.IT DID NOT WORK! <br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine<br /><br />13k for 17 minutes Jeff! I bet you live in a massive estate in the Hamptons, huh? Or the affluent Westchester county,

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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>Adam, That was Anson who had the Cobb, but if he would like to send it to me, ( I'll pay shipping) I will be happy to post of scan of it. HeeHee. Out<br><br>"I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I just read this roller coaster and was looking for more horrid scans of low graded cards to perhaps award a winner of some sort. Nasty 1's and 10's!<br /><br />The thread suddenly stopped and a 'mine is bigger' competition started and I can understand the early twenties. I started collecting at eight and Halper was my role model many, many years later and I still have visions of my own part of a Mastro catalog dedicated to my collection like Jeff Morey with my mug and a smiling image of me holding a game used Clemente All-Star bat. This of course is 2035. <br /><br />Touching tale of families as priorities on both Leon and Adam's part. I'm not there, not near but can imagine my collecting style changing once a little one is rolling around the carpet and I have to purchase bulk diapers instead of adding to my T206 collection. Nice turned thread direction.<br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>I stand corrected, ANSON, could you please post the scan of YOUR E-101 Cobb. I would love to see it. thanks!<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>Anson Lytle</b><p>It's not as nice as Lyle's 5 but it's mine and I love it!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1119576046.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Thank-you, Anson. Anyway you look at it, it's STILL a Cobb, in my book. I can understand your guys' point of view.I have a question, How does one determine a "value" for a PSA 1,2,3, when selling or buying? since there is no price guide pricing (that I know of)for low grade cards (i.e. PSA 1,2,3,'s) <br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>I'm just your basic owe about as much as I make type guy, but I love my cards.<br /><br />I also know that no amount of money can buy grace or class.<br /><br />I also know that when I'm in a hole I don't go looking for a bigger shovel.<br /><br />Go and make your money--whatever floats your boat. I'm just glad I got to post on a thread that discussed the Morraine collection--my life is now complete.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Lyle</b><p>That is a great looking Cobb and one of the rarest Carmel Cobbs there are...At last check , only ten have ever been graded by PSA with only five graded higher !

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Posted By: <b>Kenny Cole</b><p>First, let me say that I agree with the majority of people who have posted when it comes to the issue of the "value" of lower condition cards, whether they by PSA, GAI, SGC or (horrible of all horribles) RAW cards. I could say a lot more about that but I won't.<br /><br />In any event, those who believe that cards in PSA grades 1-3 have lots of potential down the road have now made that point, made it again, made it some more, and then re-emphasized it just to make sure that it wasn't missed. It is now sort of a piling-on situation. I think everyone who has read this thread gets it. <br /><br />At some point, hopefully in the near future, I suggest that Adam might want to re-examine some of his priorities. His posts make it appear that he may be missing out on some of the more important things in life. However, whether or not to do so is his decision. Ultimately, who cares? I suspect that his card buying habits are going to have a minimal effect, if any, on those of mine or anyone else. <br /><br />Kenny Cole

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Posted By: <b>Matthew Jackson</b><p>More of you need to listen to Adam M & get on the PSA4 or above bandwagon. Anything less is not worth having. Do not throw away your 3's and lower though, just forward them on to me <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Collect what you want (as long as it not something I want) & enjoy them. Simple as that. <br /><br />One of my beat-up 1's (recently traded it so it did have a little value!)<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/hotdogmj71/e902gibson.JPG" height=600 width=400><br /><br /><br /><br />and my very favorite 1, which in just a few months will be upgraded to a 2!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.viaboomimage.com/is.php?i=5307&img=picture_422.jpg" height=400 width=500 border="0">

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Posted By: <b>Scot</b><p> Adam,<br /> The PSA-1 York Caramel Gehrig you were refering to, is one of only three known to exsist, to date. Probabely a very good investment. Some cards don't come around any nicer than a VG grade or lower.

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>Leon --<br /><br />This post is great entertainment. Please don't lock it !!!

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p> It really amazes me how this thread started with some Fairly-<br /> ugly old cards encapsulated in plastic, to further preserve<br />their "ugliness", and has strayed essentially into a bashing<br /> contest of a Forum member.<br /> <br />

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have yet to see anything ugly on this post. <br /><br />While I didn't anticipate the thread heading in the direction that it did, I will remind you that it was the one board memeber who made the "loose" remark about low-grade cards. This board is a lot of things, one of them being an education tool. While some of the comments didn't approach it from a conservative, politically-correct tone, most addressed some ignorance regarding many of the things that we collect. <br /><br />There is more to vintage collecting than T206s, card slabbing, and auction houses. If you're going to jump in on someone's post like a barking dog and put people's collections down, be prepared for some feedback.<br /><br />Thanks to Leon for letting people bring foward their rebuttals.

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Adam,<br /><br />I can relate to your bringing up your daughter as a single-<br />parent. And, your hopes of retiring at age 50.<br /><br />I have done both. My wife an I were divorced amicably back in<br />1972 (no lawyers were involved to screw things up). She wanted<br />to go back to Maine after 7 years of marriage; you could call<br />it a "7-year itch". Both of us (500 miles apart) brought up<br />our daughter, Zoe.<br /><br />And, when Zoe married, I helped her bring up her son, Ron; when<br />his father died. So, I appreciate and admire you as a respon-<br />sible father. <br /><br />At 51, I retired from a very prestigious Electronics Communi-<br />cations Co. My conservative investments in real estate and<br />company stocks allowed me to retire at this relatively young<br />age.<br /><br />My sportscards collecting over the years is different than most<br />members of this Forum. I love the long-term challenge of com-<br />pleting BB card sets. I need not elaborate, but my collection<br />spans 1888 - 1967 (N162 Goodwins - 1967 Topps). And, the other<br />aspect of my collecting habit, that differ from most here, is<br />that I dislike the Grading Card phenomena. I think in the long<br />run it will prove to have had a negative impact on our hobby.<br />Already, I observe how it has had a diminishing effect on set<br />collectors, these past 10 years.<br /><br />God Bless you....Adam <br />

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Posted By: <b>Mark Tylicki</b><p>Adam – First and foremost, I envy you for having a daughter and being a father. Now that is truly admirable! Perhaps someday you’re dream will come true and posh neighborhoods await you. I sincerely wish you and Abigail the best of luck.<br /><br />You mention the beautiful home you live in. Cherish it with all your heart and value your grandparent’s hard work. I purchased mine with hard earned cash at the age of 23 without help of any kind. Approximately 30K worth of modern cards were sold to cover the down payment. Selling hundreds of ’92-‘97 Bowman rookie cards to do so was one of the best decisions I ever made. Go Vintage! <br /><br />My parents came to the states as immigrants from Poland in 1972. My father was a hard working cabbie, painter, auto mechanic, and tool machinist (Not all at once like the Jamaicans in Living Color but at different times - ha, ha). My mother busted her tail keeping the kids in line while learning English, cleaning toilets, and taking stupid Polish jokes right and left. I was out of the house at 18, experiencing life and all it's altered forms in Boulder, Colorado. I was accepted as a pre-medicine student but studying unfortunately became a pastime. Mistakes were made then and together we still make them today. That’s OK. (Gosh, that sounds like Stewart Smalley). Eventually, I earned a minor in Chemistry, a double major in Anthropology and Chicano Studies, followed by a MBA in 2001. Today, I’m managing SAP software projects and having FUN (forgive me for the caps Will). Yes, I’m very proud but it’s not because of my collection. I value my place amongst peers. The moral of this drunken story – well, we all have one.<br /><br />Study the marketplace, build friendships, and value education. Inherited wealth can easily be lost without book and/or street knowledge. In our world, spelling and proper grammar are more admirable skills than owning an autograph of Honus Wagner. We should not be less informed of our language than peoples abroad. It pisses me off when some foreigner knows more about our language/country than our own citizens. I’m proud to be an American – thank you Brian (warrior1978) and all who have served.<br /><br />Bla, bla, bla – it’s time to return to the subject of the thread. Like some of the other collectors on this board, I love my GOOD Hartnett as much as my PSA 9 Larry Doby. I believe both would be accepted by any auction house and command interest. In addition, dozens of collectors would love to own a GOOD E107 George Davis, a PR-FR Honey Boy Roush, or a ’36 WWG DiMaggio rookie card. Sorry guys but the wrinkled Bottomley RC is not for sale. I love these cards that you “would never own”. Please respect our collections. <br /><br />The stories behind a tattered collection of SGC 10s or complete NM-MT sets are equally passed on and shared by collectors. You might some day be fortunate enough to find an original Mayo Cut Plug hidden behind the walls of your vintage home (OK, not likely in Iowa but let’s pretend), partially eaten by a mouse but beautiful nonetheless. I acquired one of these from a construction worker in Maine. The Hugh Duffy was found while he was tearing down some walls. The story behind it was priceless. It was merely graded Authentic but any marketing guru could have made it the prize of a major auction with a carefully written story. Hugh was found amongst a mousetrap, an old penny, and dirt and grime with teeth marks and stains. I supplied a buyer with an incredible piece of American art in very poor condition that’s worthy of all the praise in the world. I’m positive it’s been the topic of plenty interesting conversations since. I now hope you understand how your posts were hurtful. Your apology is accepted and admired.<br /><br />I enjoy this board for the intelligent posts-the breadth of knowledge outside the hobby and within, and the camaraderie. There was a time when my first few posts on Net54 were rewarded with ridicule. For Pete’s sake (American expression that Poles don’t understand – help?), RustyWilly is a microcosm of our hobby. It’s about having fun. A gain here or there is a symptom of our addiction. Enjoying a thread this much is a reward.<br><br>------------------------------<br />MY COLLECTION: <a href="http://www.rustywilly.com/MYCOLLECTION.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.rustywilly.com/MYCOLLECTION.htm</a>

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Posted By: <b>RayB</b><p>Nice post Mark.<br /><br />For the record:<br /><br />T-206's are just plain old magical to me. I cant say I've had this feeling with any other card in my hand (save perhaps T-3 Turkey Reds)and I've been collecting for 35+ years. I just wish I had started my humble T-206 quest a lot sooner.<br />Seems to me that PSA 1,2,3 quality T-206 cards represent the way they ought to look. The warmth, the passion, and the magic of it's journey is right there for you to truly experience. The cards look and feel real. In a strange way, PSa 7,8 grade T-206's look too good, almost unreal. It's just the way I see it. The average collector (me, for instance), can only really aspire to this experience at the lowest of grade levels. I don't buy raw in this issue because I would like to know, at least, that my cards are authentic. Authenticity expectations are almost a pre-requisite of the internet commerce game we play so frequently today.<br />My humble set beginnings, about 35 cards so far can be found on the PSA Registry under "Dings, Divots, Creases & Stains". That about says it all. I think I have the lowest GPA amongst active acquirers currently registered; and I'm proud of it.<br />It's all about the fun...and the magic, anyway.<br />RayBShotz

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Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>For the love of Pete <br /> <br /> Meaning: I am frustrated with this situation. <br />Example: For the love of Pete, can we just pick a restaurant and stop searching? I am hungry. <br />Origin: This phrase and phrases like "for Pete's sake" are euphemisms for the phrases "for the love of God/Christ" or "for God's/ Christ's sake" and hail from a time when those phases were considered blasphemous. Nowadays phrases like "for the love of god" are commonly used, but the euphemisms are still used. <br />Why Pete? Most likely it is a reference to the catholic Saint Peter. <br /><br />Other phrases with similar origins are: "Zounds!" (archaic British slang), is a contraction of "christ's wounds", "oh my goodness" and "oh my gosh" for "oh my God", and "gosh darn it" for "God damn it" <br /><br />Thanks to Ron Akers<br /> <br />

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>Ted and Mark, I thank-you, both for the well wishes, the positive hope and the belief in myself to capture my goals and dreams in life.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>Jim Novotny</b><p>Ray<br />I was just admiring your collection the other day (I love the set name) as it looks quite similar to mine (Im #38 on the registry as of today). Being a new collector, and one with a family of 3 aspiring baseball/softball players, all I can really affort to go after are 1-3s. I truely enjoy my collection, especially my Frank Chance yellow portrait which I purchased from Lee. It was my first HOF vintage card and it graded a PSA 3MK -Thanks Lee. I look at my cards as others in this thread do, as a piece of history - little works of art that someone years ago cherished. I am also amazed that these cards can last as long as they have and still be in any sort of presentable condition. So until I win the lottery or until my son makes the majors, its low grade vintage for me.<br />Jim Novotny

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Anson,<br /><br />Do not mis-understand my comment. You initiated this thread and Adam Moraine<br />responded with some valid comments. In my collecting experience these past 30<br />years, I've seen a lot of factors which have impacted the value of BB cards.<br />In the late '70s when the economy was suffering (oil crises and high interest<br />rates), this hobby was just starting to develop as a serious collectible. At<br />the same time a lot of the Coin & Stamp dealers were coming into the BB card<br />market. And in 1980, the Phila. Inquirer's front page featured 3 - 1952 Topps<br />Mantles selling for $10,000. This, in a nutshell, is how things got "jump-<br />started" in this hobby. And, by 1982, these same Mantles were selling at only<br />$500 apiece!<br /><br />Before this, yes there were shows, and Beckett & Eckes had published their<br />first Price Guide; but the BB card hobby was not a real nationwide phenomena.<br />About 1985, the economy started improving (jobs were up, interest rates were<br />down). This hobby, and many other collectibles, started flourishing because <br />of the lower interest rates as investors were switching to better returns for<br />their money. By the end of the '80s this hobby was well established as a very<br />serious investment.<br /><br />Then in the early '90s the economy was weakening (and the 1994 BB strike) did<br />"soften up" the values of sportscards. It took a while as the economy started<br />improving and of course the growing popularity of auctions and the Grading<br />Service increased. But, make no mistake, if the economy goes sour (another<br />terrorist attack or whatever) these BB card values will fall. Hey, let's face<br />it, the cardboard that depicts our favorite BB players, or sets, really has<br />no intrinsic value.<br /><br />I shudder to think if I paid $5000 for an SGC 90 Cobb in 2005 and then falls<br />to $50 in 2010. In the mid '70s that is about what you would pay to get this<br />same Cobb.<br /><br />So, we have to consider Adam's first reponse to you as something to be taken<br />seriously, instead of an excuse to make personal attacks at him (or others).<br /><br />As for my "Fairly-Ugly" BB cards commentary, hey I have many of such cards in<br />in my collection.....you have to just lighten-up. I'm not trying to disparage<br />anyone on this Forum or their collection. So get that straight.<br /> <br /><br /><br /> <br />

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Always a possibiity with anything you buy. I have the Enron shares to prove it. There are only two guarantees in life: (1) death and taxes (2) anything I buy for big $$ on ebay will show up a week later for 1/2 the price. <br /><br />Don't take it so seriously; you only need money if you plan to live forever.

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>I'm not sure we read the same thread.<br /><br />Adam's first response, which you say we have to take seriously, was <br />"My personal opinion is that PSA 1's,2's,3's are not even worth the plastic holders they are slabbed in, much less the amount of money these "collectors" spend on them." Since the price of a holder is about a dollar or two, that comment is idiotic. Since Adam knows many on this board collect low grade specimens, it is also inflammatory. Why should any deference be given to such tripe?<br /><br />Next, we hear how the auction houses would never promote low grade cards as a source of "big bucks", as if such was the goal of these board members and that auction houses are the only way for money to be made in this hobby--two more fallacies.<br /><br />Onward and upward--we're told how he has the biggest collection in Iowa, he's got grandiose plans of greatness, that others who collect had their cards handed down to them or have "cushy jobs where they don't do squat" (as if there was no toil or sacrifice getting to where people are today), that he's going "to have the last laugh", going to throw it back in people's faces, etc. Oh yeah, he makes play on another board member's name, challenges another member's spelling, more blather about how successful he is, a martyr reference (why has this turned into a bash me fest?) and then his I've got it rough because I'm a single parent spiel.<br /><br />Sorry, kid needs to grow up and stop punkin. He contributed nothing to the thread but to spout how he has it all figured out. In re-reading much of the thread, I think he got off light--real light.<br />

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>I have put my sharp tongue away only because I now recognize who Adam J. Moraine really is, someone who deserve pity as opposed to ridicule. It started to feel like we were all explaining to a child that Santa doesn't exist. I'd rather let Adam think that Greenwich, CT is Eden, that his collection is worth 20 times more than it really is and that being a millionaire is a laudible "life goal."<br />

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>I think I spend too much time on the computer at work, but every message board I've ever run into has threads like this. It starts off innocent, then somebody trolls and people react to the troller and then other people with maternal istincts feel sorry for the troll and come to his defense. It makes you laugh, it makes you cry, etc. etc. In the end the trolls get the attention they want. I'm fairly new to this board, but this is one of the longest threads I've seen. That said, if anyone has any low grade pre-Castro Cuban cards they can't stand the ugliness of, I'll find them a good home.<br /><br />--Chad Johnson, owner of probably the weakest collections on this entire board unless you really like '87 Topps!

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I love 87' Topps but only in PSA 1,2,3's.<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/websize/image006.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>It is no big deal. It is a characteristic of being 24 (and three quarters).<br /><br />Some of them tho are in the MidEast and other undesireable pursuits, so that others can scoff at adults who have a hobby and do not consider that hobby as part of their portfolio.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>John, how on earth did that card only grade a 3???? It's beautiful.

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Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>Chad, I don't think you can place Adam in the "troll" category. He obviously has a love for baseball (ie his volunteer work at the Feller museum), he has been a board member for a long time, he has a nice collection going. IMO he's just a young guy with aspirations for a better life. He made some stupid remarks and he caught hell for them. He has since apologized. To pile on any further is just running up the score.<br /><br />PS. If you wanna see what a troll is visit some usenet newsgroups.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Thanks Jeff, I’ve passed on 6’s that didn’t look as good. I’ve been over it about 20 times with a loop (10x, 30x) spotless back, tiny ding lower right corner and a very tiny what looks like a line or wrinkle near his collar but is just a print line or surface imperfection not a crease. That’s all I can find you’re guess is as good as mine. <br /><br />Just another example of buy the card not the holder I guess. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>You're right about Troll being too harsh a term. I still think it was a kind of troll, but a mild one, for sure. I think we need a new word that could describe a 25% troll, 75% accidental foot in the mouth poster that's more humorous than anything else. A gnome? My thesaurus is woefully outdated when it comes to these situations. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> And yeah, I've seen some real sob's out there in cyber land. One good thing about the internet--it's confirmed what I've always suspected, that there are a lot of scary dudes out there in the shadows. <br /><br />--Chad

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Posted By: <b>Bob Rousseau</b><p>term I'd use for someone who ridiculed the collecting prefernces of 95% of the board here (you know, those people that dare to call themselves "collectors" even though they will pursue lower graded cards (I guess he was being polite by using the term "collectors" when less face it, anyone who collects lower grade cards (no matter what they are) is more of... a garbage man. If he's been around a long time, he must've noticed that "CHA CHING" as a goal was not going to get earn him many "attaboys" round here. I guess, at the very least, I would call such a person... in the wrong place.<br /><br />I'm not in the habit of insulting people- even in the 'anonymity' of cyberspace. But I also don't appreciate being insulted.<br /><br />Speaking of scary people out in the dark- I remember when I used to frequent the board a few years ago, there was that guy Doc something or other who used to brag about his purchases and collection (and how many women he could pick up at a massage parlor). I seem to recall he'd bought a bogus '52 Mantle in a PRO slab for a 'real' '52 Mantle price, and he was trying to resell it even though he knew it was bogus. <br /><br />But anyway- back to the cardboard...<br /><br />whew! that Huggins is a beauty...

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>Wow!!! That's got to be one of the nicest looking 3's out there. Is there just the slightest of paper pulls on the bottom right corner? I have a 34 Goudey Vaughn that presents itself like a 6 but it has the slightest of paper pulls on the top border that is very small not very detectable to the casual observer. The card was returned as a 4. I looked that card over very carefully and sure enough - there it was, the defect that lowered the grade... No big deal, the card presents very well. I'd say that Huggins presents much nicer. Is there anything at all on the back that might have reduced the grade on the card?

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>That Huggins is a beauty! <br /><br />Anyone ever crack open a slab only to resend it to that company (or another) and get a 'Big' difference? <br /><br />Massage Parlors and PRO labeled grading cards in the same story! Can't beat that!<br /><br />DJ<br />

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Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>I really am sorry for characterizing the apparent error in judgement of one person as typical of the behavior of persons in their twenties. Certainly that is not true as evidenced by the boards behavior - which encompasses several individuals of that vintage.<br /><br />Also, please do not think that persons of my vintage (a 60+ newbie) feel negatively about those with in some cases less experience and perhaps a bit more exuberance.<br /><br />I treasure the younger persons who have either the hobby or its potential as an investment vehicle at heart, because at one time I feared that the vintage market would die with the baby boomers. I am pleasantly surprised that there is continued interest in the old players.<br /><br />As Seth always says: even at current levels, you can not beat the value of these cards. So I sincerely welcome and value all younger participants in this hobby - but where are the girls?<br /><br />Comeon now, us oldtimers are represented, quite aptly, by Julie (our left fielder).

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Nowhere is Eden if you spend half the year indoors so you don't freeze off your cojones. Try La Jolla, Laguna Beach or Santa Barbara. Malibu doesn't suck either.

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Boxing!<br /><br />I spent some time in So-Cal. What the hell is this soy milk? This tofu? Are these women made of plastic? I think the mayor was Dolph Lundgren!<br /><br />I do miss Coronado Beach though! <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />The east is for me! I simply didn't understand my surroundings.<br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>Douglas D</b><p>I'd like to point out, as a resident of Santa Barbara, California, that it an incredible place to be. And, it's a hotbed of sports collecting. : ) <br /><br />Douglas

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p><font color="red">La Jolla, Laguna Beach or Santa Barbara. Malibu doesn't suck either.</font> <br /><br /><font color="blue">What about Rancho Santa Fe? I figure there will be a house for sale there soon if Randy "Duke" Cunningham gets his due.</font> <br /><br /><font color="red">What the hell is this soy milk?</font> <br /><br /><font color="blue">It's a white hued tofu based beverage</font><br /><br /><font color="red">This tofu?</font> <br /><br /><font color="blue">It's seemingly taseteless soy based protein sold in blocks that are soft, firm, very firm and textured This stuff is purchased by the women of dow chemical (aka plastic women).</font><br /><br /><font color="red">Are these women made of plastic?</font> <br /><br /><font color="blue">Oh, but the plastic is so strategically placed.</font><br /><br /><font color="red">I think the mayor was Dolph Lundgren!</font><br /><br /><font color="blue">Not in Southern California - maybe the middle or northern end. As a state we wouldn't settle for less than the greatest movie actors as governor (Reagan and Arnold - BOTH!!!!)</font><br /><br /><font color="red">I do miss Coronado Beach though!</font> <br /><br /><font color="blue">You can't touch a house in Coronado for under $750K or so. You could settle for a condo and be a wanna-be Coronadan. The Coronado beach is a good place to park your rear for an afternoon but the real fun is in PB, OB and even IB (not to mention many other sandy strips of land). You could sell an awful nice collection of cards and put a down payment on a home if you really wanted to get out of collecting cardboard.</font><br /><br /> <br />Sorry to get off topic. Now back on topic (sort of) - If I had a PSA1 T206 Wagner I'd trade it for a down payment on nice home in LaJolla (must be near the beach).

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>I didn't want to join in, but I would appreciate it if folks like Dred and Warshaw would keep their loose traps shut. SoCal is a hole. Pit. Armpit of America. Move to Greenwich. Hell move to New Haven. Just get out of here so I can move from IB up north to La Jolla. <br /><br />On cards, there will be a lot of PSA 1 extremely rare hot dog cards going up for sale in a couple of years when my wife finds that house for only a million in La Jolla or Coronado.

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Posted By: <b>Adam J. Moraine</b><p>One again, thanks Ted Z. I do not consider myself a gnome or a troll. Kind of harsh, borderline brutal. Have I surpassed Mr. Mint, as "most bshed thread"yet?<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>You did not initiate this thread, but you certainly "sparked"<br />it. These posts have exceeded the Mr. Mint thread by at least<br />30 at this point. In fact this thread sets the record for the<br />number of responses this year.

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Posted By: <b>Anson</b><p>Ted, I'm not sure how the table turned where I'm the one with the forked tongue and the negaitve slant.<br /><br />I started this post to look at the large margin of difference between PSA 1 graded cards. Although there are pieces of Adam's posts that I can appreciate, he is the one that decided to take the confontational approach. I didn't insult him or resort to name calling. However, as we beat the dead horse again, I explained some of the misconceptions about what many of us like to collect. I appreciate the fact that you're sticking up for the odd man out on this thread, but don't paint me to be the jackhole on the board. <br /><br />I'm still chuckling about the 87' topps PSA 1,2, and 3 comment. I personally like to see them majorly trimmed and altered where they're ungradable.<br /><br />I may be poor now but I hope to be good to very good soon.

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>and cheaper too...

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Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>Yes, Southern California is a pit. I'd highly advise that people not move here, let alone visit this sun baked bastion of the epitome of hell. It has lousy weather, ugly women and there are no worth while baseball card shows.....<br /><br />Sorry for getting off topic... I enjoyed the portion of this thread that dealt with the disparaging differences in cards graded SGC10, PSA1 or GAI1. The reference to a PSA1 card with a qualifier was great. Why put a qualifier on the lowest of the low....?