Most of the fractional companies are either gone or doing very little nowadays and hate to tell you this but the companies doing shiny stuff are hear to stay.

Here, here!

So wait, only dealer/corp fees pay the bills? What about all the attendees paying to get in?

I truly believe the NSCC got a good deal to stay in Rosemont and use that facility, bottom line. And I don't expect the National to be outside of Chicago/that venue in the next 10 years.

And I think staying in Rosemont is a great answer. And the people voting agree. Until the 2nd part of this post changes, folks we ain't moving. Period, end of sentence.

As of a couple years ago, here's how collectors feel (or at least the net54 community).

https://i.postimg.cc/jd3PbDtB/NSCCpoll.jpg

Collector Preference on Locations of The National

Doesn't matter, the dealers/corp sponsors have spoken.

The National in Chicago won't be hurting for attendees any time soon. And the 59 votes in that poll aren't moving the needle.

The reality is that the Stephens is sooooo much cheaper than other venues, the location is convenient for so many amenaties, and the dealers prefer it. So it would take a major drop in attendance to change their minds. And frankly, if you've been to the last few Nationals, you'd know attendance isn't an issue. The place is bursting at the seams in every venue.

I keep thinking that - At Some Point - they will give St. Louis another shot but not holding my breath.

Someone in threads noted that the last St. Louis National was 1995???

If so - Then that's the last time I attended the National - I have zero desire to go to Chicago......

Ditto. I haven't been since 2019, the last few years due to work and family issues (a trial in 2023 and a family thing last year), and I am very much looking forward to hanging with my fellow card fiends. As for cards, I will be happy if I can knock off the last several cards in some condition-sensitive pet projects that aren't rare but that I am picky about and would like to see in hand before I buy. But I am also not adverse to finding a great, rare card.

Incredibly shortsighted thinking, and an easy way to cook the golden goose. If it is held in Chicago in perpetuity, attendees will eventually discover the same dealers with the same stuff year after year, then attendance will decline and the show will lose relevance.

I doubt it; ComiCon is in San Diego every year and it is doing just fine. My friends who attend it like the predictability of it.

Most dealers turn over their inventories regularly, so seeing the same stale museum pieces is not a big threat for 95% of the attendees.

I do miss the local dealers who used to fill out the show, but the days of there being space for them is long past. With the entrenched seniority system the locals aren't getting tables anyway. I advocate a full lottery system, but that ain't happening, so this is a non-issue.

I like Rosemont as a permanent location given the other choices. Cleveland and AC are logistical disasters for anyone coming by air. I don't think there is an easier to reach and easier to get around place for the show than Rosemont, other than perhaps NYC, and that isn't realistic due to cost.

Consider me part of the 5%, but I'm not there for cards. I couldn't pick up a single thing the last few times I attended. Prior to that, I may have found a handful of very low-value items from dealers who must have won the lottery to set up, as they were never known to me before and never heard from since. I always attended in hopes of spending more, and on better quality material, but from a vintage autograph perspective, it was always the same sellers with the same stuff.

With all the extra dealers who came in 2023 as the entire show floor was used and then some, I find it harder to believe that you found nothing for your collection that year.

Agree.

Stopped attending after 2018 due to it having been a waste of time and resources for several years running. You have to cut your losses at some point.

The National should move around the country to give everyone a chance to attend:

Chicago
New York
Atlanta
Atlantic City
LA
Richmond
Charlotte
Miami
Santa Fe
New Orleans
Seattle


You get the idea.

In a perfect world, I wholeheartedly agree. But what we have heard over and over is that the economics just don't work.

If the Chicago location is very cheap for dealers compared to other places, I get it. The people who man the booths have to be able to turn a profit.

Unfortunately that might be the reality of it. But I don't like it. Chicago multiple years in a row is boring.





QUOTE=Vintagedeputy;2501148]The National should move around the country to give everyone a chance to attend:

Chicago
New York
Atlanta
Atlantic City
LA
Richmond
Charlotte
Miami
Santa Fe
New Orleans
Seattle


You get the idea.[/QUOTE]

Chicago, as a place, is a great city and metropolis. Absolutely no bad feeling towards Chicagoland, but the specific area surrounding the convention center is an absolute snooze fest. Before there was an app for everything, I recall spending 45 minutes just driving around aimlessly looking for a decent Mom & Pop diner one morning. There was nothing around for miles. Just nothing. Residential. I think all I found was a Hardees, which is clearly the culinary opposite of the end goal of my quest. Absolutely nothing to do, either, unless you still have energy left over to drive a fair distance in who knows what kind of traffic. I have heard that this has been improved within the hotel/convention center complex, but hanging out around there would not be my idea of a good time. The only thing I want to do when in that area is leave as soon as possible.

I remember working a show in Schaumburg years ago. It's too bad that the venue is too small for a National, as it was much cheerier and in better repair. There was more to do in that area, too. Better food and enjoyable bars.

I'd be good with that list. We can add some nice locations up north once we've annexed Canada.

As a longtime National Dealer(since 1997) who does admittedly fly in and not drive, Chicago(Rosemont) is hands down the easiest venue to get to. Five minutes from O'Hare and once in your hotel room, you are connected directly to the convention center(others are down the street but easily walkable). And, there are dozens of restaurants within walking distance. No need for rental car or Uber, etc.

Edited to say, IT WAS Insufferably hot for the first two days of the last National and it is said they have replaced the AC system components at fault and should be much more comfortable this time around.

Not funny. Not appreciated.

It wasn't my idea!

Take that shit someplace else.

I can't tell if you're an American who wants to annex Canada and is upset that I'm kidding about it, or a Canadian who is upset about the idea. Either way, lighten up.

Tensions are high right now, and I don't need this bullshit on a baseball card forum.

Humor can relieve tension. It's how some of us deal with a chaotic and insane world. Are you actually taking the concept seriously?

I am telling you one last time. Zip it. Your comments are not funny. "Lighten up"?! We are not here for this. Some of us are here to try to escape this. Go find someplace else for your "humor".

+1

You can zip it. There is humor all over this board, including about current events. You are taking things way too seriously

You're making light of my country being overtaken by yours. I take that very personally.

That isn't happening and it isn't going to happen. Every Canadian friend I have is laughing about it because it's such a ridiculously stupid concept. But seriously, even though you have been a dick about it, I do apologize if I offended you.

Can you shut the fuck up with your politics? For once?

As Mike Krukow would say: “None chance”.

I'm not talking politics and I apologized to the guy, even though he was the one being rude. How about you STFU, you miserable, idiotic shithead.

For reasons like this conversation
 

Political Talk is actually prohibited on Net 54.

Regards
Rich

It wasn't politics. It was a joke about something absurd in the news that is so laughable you can't help but joke about it. Some people just need to lighten up.

Or, perhaps, some people need to be more informed of what's actually going on in the world around them. By saying it was not political and brushing it off as my needing to lighten up, you are only displaying your lack of understanding of the gravity of what is about to befall this world, America most assuredly included.

It's no laughing matter. As Canadians, we take the shambles created by your "president" very seriously. If you currently don't share in these feelings, just give it time. You will.

For the record, I have been on this forum nearly 20 years and have never reacted so strongly to anything posted by anyone. I've always tried to be kind and diplomatic around here, but the wrong person was provoked at the wrong time.

My personal apologies to everyone else for taking the bait and for engaging in this political talk. Perhaps it may serve to help some people understand just how people in my country are feeling as of today. I can say with supreme confidence that I speak for practically every Canadian. There are no Canadians "laughing at the joke" as described. We no longer consider it a joke. We're completely fed up, but not by Americans in general. We wish to remain as close as we historically have been. I happen to love the USA and have enjoyed my travels all over your nation far more than driving through my own, not to mention my countless friends there. This was not our choice and not our doing.

Nope, not being overly dramatic here. :rolleyes:

I'll check back with you in 4 years, when nothing you claim will befall this world has happened.

In my experience which is dated, McComick is brutal when it comes to union regulations and oversight. Many years ago I knew a vendor who had a jam in his trade booth. He used a pocket knife to unjam it and was fined for use of a tool by a non-union member.

Maybe you should stick to legal comments instead of trying to egg on someone who clearly is upset. If you don't care about how he feels, have some class and keep it to yourself.

Take your own advice and butt out. He doesn't need egging on. He did that himself.

I've had enough of people jumping all over other people for making jokes. If you don't think it's funny, don't laugh. But this trend in our society to silence others because it hurts our feelings is disgusting. I get he's upset (even if I think it's a result of fearmongering). But that's no excuse to respond the way he did. I'll defend someone's right to make a passing joke every time. It was quite clear the poster meant no harm by that joke, and didn't deserve to be attacked by a drama queen. I firmly believe in what used to be an American principle, "I may not like what you have to say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it."

But I've said my peace. I won't be commenting on this again.

I am not fearmongering. You do not know how all of the political turmoil caused by one man and his influencers has personally affected my business or life. And no, I have no intention of expanding on this personal information just to prove myself to two people on an internet forum.

Free speech is a great thing and allows people to say what they want without fear of reprisal from the government. But it also comes with the responsibility to realize when enough is enough. To keep going on something when someone has clearly shown they don't find it funny starts to become bullying. We don't tolerate it in our schools with our kids. We shouldn't tolerate it here, either.

I hope that whatever problems you’re experiencing in your business and life will be short lived.

I will respond to this because it's important. The only person bullying anyone here was dodgerfan bullying a person who made an innocent joke, not even directed at him. The response by dodgerfan was over the top and uncalled for. Telling him to calm down is not bullying him, no matter how you want to spin it.

Me too. And I thank you and the others who understand that people are being affected very negatively, even if they themselves haven't experienced any issues yet.

I also wish you the best, and hope the negative things you experience are short lived. But that's no excuse for the way you came at that fellow forum member.

ok, now I'm done. ;)

Far be it from me to condone BillyCoxDodger's approach, but at some point, we all need to be willing to turn down the temperature rather than feel the need to respond in kind.

I've long been a firm believer in the proverb: "A soft answer turneth away wrath."

And if that means that we leave something unsaid, or an online posting without a rebuttal, I'm hopeful that posterity will forgive us for letting it go.

I tried to keep it succinct and polite. That wasn't accepted. But, enough is enough.

Some people think the trend of saying hurtful things without consequences is disgusting. It gets even better when those "funny joke" people seriously consider themselves victims.

And of course you will continue to comment, shitheads always do.

Funny how you told me to butt out but you had no problem jumping into the conversation to comment on what someone else had said.

Thank you. I'm glad somebody gets where I was coming from. I have ZERO interest in "talking politics" on this board. It's against the rules and when it does happen it always ends in incivility. I honestly thought it was a funny comment, yes it was referencing something said by a politician, but politics-adjacent posts like that happen on here all the time. If it had occurred to me that anyone would have actually been triggered by it I wouldn't have posted it.

Yeah, so back to the issue at hand, I agree that summer in Chicago feels fraught with danger, at least to someone whose summers are basically just 90 days of hot, dry and sunny. Nothing was as unnerving for me as those damn cicadas in the trees one year. That noise, WTF? Sounded like an electrical system shorting out. Then I found one of the damn things--martian-looking cockroaches with red eyes. And they are telling me that there are thousands of them in the trees that I am walking under?? Ugh, almost as repulsive as mimes, clowns and SF Giants and Padres fans.

The cicadas were more scared of you than you of them.

Yep, and then they sleep for 17 years.

Never been to the National in Chicago, but it's hard for me to imagine the location of the venue being worse than Cleveland.

Cleveland the venue itself was fine (mostly) once you finally got there (the WiFi sucked) - but it's like an old airport hangar in the middle of nowhere. No close hotels for decent prices, no food within walking distance. (The food trucks inside were ok, but pricey). We stayed the suburb over in Independence, and ubered to the show each day. I wouldn't have wanted to have driven myself.

Don't know until I see it, but I would imagine I'd be a lot more willing to accept a run down venue that was more convenient to the amenities than just randomly enough space in the middle of nowhere.

I for one am not taking the concept seriously. It's simply silliness incarnate. If Canada falls apart, it won't be due to the United States. It will be due to our own grievous mismanagement of our finances/affairs/country.

What I find galling though is the hypocrisy of so many Canadians and particularly the sports fans who have for the last few decades embraced the NFL, NCAA sports, all the American imports/aliens playing as mercenaries for the Toronto Blue Jays and Toronto Raptors and American sports in general while showing a complete lack of interest in the CFL and Canadian university sports. Now all of a sudden these fellows have become Canadian nationalists? Where the hell were they the last forty years when the Toronto Argonauts, Montréal Alouettes and every Canadian university including my beloved alma mater the University of Western Ontario could barely give tickets away?

Of course there's also the women who've been hanging on every word, every scene, every designer dress from the Oscars in Hollywood, U.S.A. for the last eighty years.

And then there are those "Canadians" who can't wait to flee to Florida in the winter months rather than taking pride in and revelling in our sub-Arctic weather. Some even go so far as to wear positively nauseating "My Canada includes Florida!" T-shirts.

:mad:

So only now do these people discover their Canadian roots? A bit late for that methinks.

:rolleyes:

I disagree. Although I collect all kinds of kid stuff from my formative years, I'm most assuredly a full adult in every other way. As such I don't require any protection from words. In fact I'm pretty sure I can give at least as good as I get.

;)

National
 

What does the Browns possibly building a dome in Brook Park do for Cleveland National? It is near the IX Center. Would be more dining and hotels closer to the venue?

National
 

My streak continues, I can really make a thread go cold.

I think it was the over-reaction of a couple posters, especially a particularly vulgar one, that quieted the room.

You sir, are a genuine dummy.

Nothing. Cleveland just isn't the right place given the other options.

What's even more ironic (and annoying) is that fifty years ago every self-respecting Canadian beer drinker absolutely sneered at American near beers which were dismissed as piss water. Now Budweiser, Coors Lite, Bud Light, etc. rank at or very near the top of the list of best selling Canadian beers. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, these products are now brewed in Canada. But so what? Like I say, anyone who's been quaffing American branded suds for decades is certainly not in any moral position to suddenly espouse Canadian nationalism.

:rolleyes:

convention centers
 

Ok I will try to bring this back on topic as I have done conventions in every city mentioned just about. Although I have not made it to a national in recent years I have done shows in all the venues mentioned.

For the people that just suggest any city the problems are vast
-Convention center is too small
-Not enough hotels near by
-Not enough places to eat near by
-No easy access

These are huge reason why Boston will never be chosen for instance. It is crazy expensive and the convention centers are too small and near nothing but water.

I do NY Comic Con every year at the Javits center, no union issues.
I have done shows in both Chicago locations though its been a few years, no union issues
I did shows in Indy its too small of a location now

At this point it seems the show really could only fit in a few places
Chicago
New York
Atlantic City
Baltimore
Orlando
Anaheim
San Diego

I don't believe any other city has the combined aspects above to make it work.

Honestly, I don't understand why Baltimore is never an option, plenty of convention center space and hotels. Places to eat in walking distance and the inner harbor and the Orioles are right there.

Anyway just my 2 cents from doing conventions for the last 25 years or so.

James G

When the NSCC was held in Baltimore in 2010 and 2012 (I may have the years slightly off) the square footage was barely in the acceptable range at the time for the NSCC and since the show has grown since then, probably not big enough now.

I will also say I agree 100 percent in Baltimore was a great location for the NSCC and hopefully we can get back there some day

Rich

Baltimore is not an option anymore. The convention center could use every inch of space and not even be half of what is needed.

I do yearly trips to San Diego for a large event in their convention center.

Sign me up for a show there. Would be incredible.

Hotels and restaurants are everywhere and the airport is right there.

Additional point to ponder, I have heard the NSCC does not get charged for the event spaces they use. Not sure if that's true or not but have heard that from multiple sources over the years.

Yes, SD is perfect in every way. I've been saying that on these threads for countless years, and it just falls on deaf ears. Net54 has had at least a dozen threads in the past, just like this one.

So what's the point when no one cares or even listens? Total waste of time and energy to lobby for anything west of the Mississippi. You could offer them all free air, food and hotel, but it still won't happen.

That is not true on an annual basis.

One year I think Atlantic City did not charge them and the dealers got a small break on the table fee as well as I remember.

But, I'm sure The Stephens Center is cheaper than the other venues so that might well figure into the equation.

However, dealers do choose from the options given by the management team so they are not picking it every year due to cost savings on their end but for all the other reasons mentioned time and time again.

That might do it to get the votes to San Diego. Free everything for the vendors.

There are many locations/venues that can't host the National for one reason or another:

Some venues are too small and/or don't have enough hotel rooms
Some venues are not convenient to airports
Some venues/cities the union stuff too expensive and/or other legal issues
Some venues charge too much for having events in their building
Some venues/cities are not good baseball and/or sports towns
Some venues don't want it scheduled too far in the future.
etc,... etc,... etc,...

After all of this analysis, it turns out Chicago, Cleveland, and Atlantic City are the only ones that check all the boxes with the National committee, BUT after the Atlantic City and Cleveland recent experiences, those two venues are probably now history and this is why Chicago is left standing. So, fortunately or unfortunately, the National will be at the Stephens Convention Center until the end of time.

The problem with the near O'Hare Airport location in Chicago is that it's a hell's half acre away from anything else that might be of interest in Chicago including Wrigley Field and Comiskey Park.

:(

If you are mobile, it's a short walk to the train station to go to the places you mentioned on a train. And many people use Uber, Lyft or other ways to get to and fro. Plus, tons of stuff to do IN the area of the NSCC.

Rich

Mobile is an understatement. I've walked from Wrigley Field back to my hotel (the Palmer House?) in the Loop.

;)