Damn, apparently Rickey is crashing Baseball Reference right now. Never seen that before.

Add that to his accomplishments. ;)

Ummm... Bench is universally regarded as the greatest Catcher of all time.

No one would make that claim for Henderson as an outfielder. Nobody in his/her right mind would rank Henderson above Aaron, Mays, Ruth, Musial, Mantle, DiMaggio, Williams, Cobb, Clemente and many others. Ridiculous argument.

I think you’re underrating just how great Rickey really was. Again, yes, WAR is not everything, but he put up one more than Mantle, 16 more than Clemente and a whole bunch more than DiMaggio, although of course Joe had military service time.

You might not rank Rickey above those guys based on other factors, and that’s fine, but it’s not ridiculous or crazy to say he was better.

Mark, I highly value your opinion in many areas of the hobby, but with Rickey it's like 'apples to oranges' in regards to most other top tier HOF'ers. Rickey's game is only really historically comparable to Cobb from your list and Rickey bettered Cobb in a few key categories.....SB's, runs and walks. Rickey isn't the same type of player as the other guys listed. His game was speed and disruption on the base paths, with some sneaky power mixed in. Just my 2 cents. RIP Rickey!

When MLB chose their all-time team in 1969, Joe DiMaggio was chosen as the greatest living player. I don't agree, but anyone else who would have had that honor bestowed on them, would have kept referring to it also.

Henderson hit . 279/ .401/ .419 OPS+ 127. 60th all-time in OBP, but his other stats are mediocre compared to those players. He wasn't an outstanding defensive player. He is the greatest base stealer of all-time, but behind all those guys mentioned on all-time lists.

WPA seems like a decent measuring stick. Rickey is ranked #16, behind most of the top-tier greats mentioned (Ruth, Williams, Mays, Aaron, Mantle, Musial and Cobb) but ahead of DiMaggio and Clemente.

Nice tribute to Henderson on The Ringer site.

https://theringer.com/2024/12/22/mlb...land-athletics

Thanks for posting. Interesting stat showing that he is the all-time leader in stolen bases both under age 30 and age 30+ and that no one else is in the top 18 on both lists.

I heard that Rickey had the highest WAR since 1940 of any player other than A-Rod and Bonds. No steroid accusations with Rickey.

Another fun Rickey stat..... he had a slightly higher success rate at stealing 3rd base than 2nd base (it was roughly 81% vs. 80.5%). Not sure if he ever successfully tried stealing home?

Stole home 4 times in 9 attempts.

Rickey's very last stolen base was fittingly, him beating a pick-off attempt at 44 years old. :D:D

https://youtu.be/7HAcJ-qQfi8?si=OJsfut8PJgce3f63


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Love this quote from Maury Wills:

After Maury Wills stole 104 bases in 1962, he said, “I don’t see how I can ever come close again. The physical beating I took is more than I want to endure.” Rickey reached 100 three times in four years.

Not true:

Top Catchers - Bleacher Report

Greatest Catchers - MLB

"Right mind"? "Ridiculous"? If you're not trying to provoke hostility, you might think twice before using inflammatory terms.

:rolleyes:

I wonder if that's generally true? Logically, one could posit that the much better lead/jump one can get off second base offsets the shorter throwing distance. But i don't know.

I am not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen a statistically based argument that Berra was better than Bench. That argument always feels driven by nostalgia/romantic notions about intangibles etc.

Yeah, I wish he'd just stayed with the Oakland Athletics through at least the 2002 season and then perhaps closed out his career in the other League with the New York Mets or somebody. Clearly he didn't need the money, e.g. not cashing his $1 million bonus cheque from the Yankees. Playing musical chairs invariably detracts from a player's legacy.

Still, these records are something with which it's nearly impossible to argue:

Career Runs - 2295
Career Stolen Bases - 1406 (50% ahead of Lou Brock in second place)
Career Unintentional Walks - 2129

Single Season Stolen Bases - 130

Here's a good write-up of Ricky's achievements;

Man of Steal - FOX Sports

I like the one where he had zero At-Bats in a game yet stole five bases and four runs.

:cool:

I'd rate Johnny Bench well ahead of Yogi Berra as well. But Perezfan said "universal". My underlying objection was to Perezfan's extreme choice of words when responding to my post.

;)

I stay away from "the greatest ever" statements and discussions because it's purely subjective; opinion based. In Rickey Henderson's case, there is no argument. When it comes to base stealing, he's hands down the greatest ever. And base stealing would appear to be a lost art in today's game.

It's generally easier to steal 3rd.

Fun fact: the year Rickey stole 130 bases, he had just 7 steals in Sept/Oct.

Lost art? 24 players with 30 or more steals this season.

2024 MLB season
In 2024, MLB players stole 3,617 bases, the highest total in 109 years. This was due to new rules that made base stealing easier, such as limiting pickoff attempts and increasing the size of bases.

Improved success rate
Since the 1980s, MLB teams have had a stolen base success rate of at least 70% for 15 consecutive seasons.

Still a strategic play
Stealing a base is a strategic play that requires focus, speed, and confidence. While teams may not be stealing as often, they have become more efficient on the basepaths.

Players still steal bases
Some players, like Jose Altuve, are still stealing bases at a high level.