For any of us with foreign names, this isn’t much of a feat. I’d argue that my signature works in a dozen or so different languages. Now if you want to talk about using different writing systems, then that’s a bit more exciting.

Exactly. His cursive sig works in many languages. His Japanese writing is a different system.

I couldn't agree more. The hen scratching that so many stars call their autograph demonstrates their pumped up egos. Compare the Otani sample to, say, Charlie Gehringer.

Agreed. In Ohtani’s case his autograph in Japanese is way more legible and he actually writes out each character. It was only when he started doing his autograph in English that it became a mess, probably because he was just copying the sloppy way everyone else was doing it.

Sadaharu Oh’s approach was way different, his autograph in English is easier to read than his Japanese one. Times have changed.

It would be one thing if they lived in an era where they're at the park signing and occasionally at shows/events, but when you're signing 1000s of cards on contract many times a year we're no longer in an era where your autograph can expected be a work of art.

Andre Dawson's autograph might look a lot different if at age 20 he signed a few thousand cards a year for many different card companies.

In a way, the card and memorabilia industry ruined autographs.

Not baseball, but here's John Cena signing some autographs..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j8F3_rKCU8

That's nuts. Puts things into perspective a bit.

Wow, that brings up an interesting question from this gaijin (had to look that one up). Is there a loose 'script' way of writing Japanese characters? The way an autograph in English doesn't comply with what each letter 'should' look like? That sorta thing?

Wasn't it not that long ago that Mike Trout limited cards were going vertical? What happened to those cards?

Shohei is Showtime. He's definitely an anomaly being a two way player and being effective in both disciplines. He hasn't been good enough to win a Cy Young award, but he's done pretty good on the mound.

He has almost 7 MLB seasons under his belt, of which only 4 are considered full seasons (including the current season).

What happens if Shohei hurts himself this year on in the next year or two and is laid up and no longer the same player he is today (let's hope that doesn't happen). What will the card prices be then.

Truly, how many people would pay that kind of money for a card? I'm guessing it's got to be a relatively low number. That's a lot of cash that you would only hope is someone's chump change and not part of their kids college fund or their retirement fund.

Personally, I'd rather spend my money on some nice 19th century material or other vintage cards.

There is, but it doesn’t get used much in autographs.

Ichiro is a good example. His name is formally written in kanji characters as 一郎 and is a fairly common first name. But when his name is written in Japanese they always used the simplified katakana characters as イチロー.

But his signature in Japanese is just a huge mess of squiggly lines and I can’t tell which version he is trying to write.

Regarding autographs, I have a baseball that Ozzie Smith autographed for me in person, 40 years ago, while I was leaning over the railing at Shea Stadium during warm ups. His signature was exactly the same as the ones I'm seeing today on his recently graded, hand-signed cards. I'm going to suspend any natural cynicism and say that there are some guys who still do things the right way, and they may not be the guys who made the most money playing baseball.

Sounds like Mr. Ohtani was monitoring this forum and saw people talking smack about him...

Walk off grand slams that put you in the 40-40 club sure are a good way to silence critics.

Fastest ever to join the 40-40 club too, but here he’s viewed as not doing it the right way.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...in-player-poll

The cited article in The Athletic is behind a paywall, but the above from last year was telling to me. Basically, 45% of surveyed MLB players would build a team around Ohtani. Judge was a distance second with around 14% of the vote.

Seems like Ohtani is a player's player, inasmuch as he is a fan favorite.

Go shine his shoes then with the MLB Network shoeshine boys Mr. Hipster. You all can hype him together while Judge has slugs batting behind him and the glorious one has two MVP's protecting him. BTW without the DH where would he play this season since you are Mr. Know It All and marvelous also.

It's pretty difficult to overrate the greatest talent that the game has ever seen.

At this point, they could probably put him at shortstop and the dude would win a gold glove lol

i think just his base rookies, ungraded or PSA9 or below*

**I think there are ALOT OF SALTY people that dont want to believe someone is better than Ruth...... their letting the logic get in the way....

differnt eras yes, but Ruth basically stopped pitching pretty early, and to be fair wasnt facing the worlds best competition

Thank you.

Exactly

with a rehabing UCL and likely getting to 45/45

with a shot at 50/50 or 45/50

based on 100 replies...maybe it was CORRECT location... LOL

So what are his ungraded base rookies selling for these days? And what do you think they’re worth? Not being an Ohtani collector, I’m not familiar with the details here. I’m guessing that you think his PSA 10 rookies are not undervalued?

If you really think they’re undervalued, the obvious answer is to start buying and keep buying until you drive up the price to what you think they are worth.

I would be very hesitant to buy anything Ohtani. The guy is objectively the best or second best player in baseball but will apparently have an odd amount of detractors.

It's been awhile since there was a card in this thread, here are a few

I'm perfectly willing to concede the 20th century to Ruth, but so far I think Ohtani will be hard to beat in the 21st century. Comparing today's game with 1924 is more difficult than the most biased Ruthies and/or Ohtanies are willing to admit.

I don’t think you’ll lose money buying Ohtani cards but I wouldn’t say he’s undervalued in the Ernie Banks sense.

I think you’d do well buying Aaron Judge too. It’s like watching an authentic Bonds up there.

Judge is freaking amazing! HR#50

I sure like that Pujols card you slipped in there!

There's a pretty wide gap between what Judge is doing and what Bonds did.

I agree. Judge is an authentic player. His production is real.

Judge is a Beast!

what is a stolen base value versus the best
 

40 steals now is like 25 in the past? Ohtani amazing player but no way its the same 40 steals now than it was in the past....pitchers could hold ball for 15 secs and throw to first, bases are bigger... etc.

I was wondering the same thing. But then I thought that it is quite possible that SB attempts are down significantly from the prime Rickey Henderson years, given that advanced analytics have taken over many aspects of the game. And those analytics have seemingly devalued the stolen base. So you've got to be a much more sure-footed base stealer before the manager will give you a green light to run today.

As an aside, one of the things that analytics has made less fun about baseball are reducing the frequency of things like stolen bases, hit-and-run plays, and suicide squeezes.

Agree that analytics has taken fun things about small ball, like bunts and stolen bases, from the game. Stolen bases are probably down also due to the fact that the pitcher is getting the ball to the plate faster than in the past and catcher can probably throw it a bit faster to second too.

He's probably the most recognizable name of any active baseball player in the world, is considered the best player the last few years by anyone who isn't a Yankees fan, outsells pretty much every other veteran player and the player he is most often compared to is the one and only Babe Ruth. How can he possibly be undervalued? He doesn't need to get more pumped up hype to make money off his cards.

This is definitely an issue, I don’t understand it personally but it is an obvious situation. The guy could turn water to wine and a bunch would jump his case for something.

I think it has a lot to do with language barrier and him not being a common public figure out there and doing talk shows and such. The same was common with Miguel Cabrera in his prime. He really had little interest in learning English and he didn’t care to deal with the public off the field. Judge has bit of that “all-American kid” aura and like Jeter he will get fans just for that.

I've heard that argument made before but when I think of Jeter I mostly think of a stone. The guy didn't say a lot, didn't reveal a lot about himself, and wasn't really out there bringing attention to himself either.

Trout doesn't put himself out there either. I don't think it has anything to do with language. It's personality.

Agree Ohtani will be hard to beat as the best player in the 21st Century if he stays healthy as a hitter. If he doesn’t pitch there is no reason to think he stays at DH. He is a phenomenal athlete and could easily learn to play a position once he is allowed to throw again.

I think he pitches again. If he has say 5 more seasons as a pitcher and hitter and pitches like he did before - his value is so far above the next guy you simply cannot compare. We are witnessing an all-timer and really should enjoy it as long as we can. Unlikely we live to see another player like him.

Some crusty old heads who don’t want their guy’s unique place taken away. But if you are not making an effort to watch Ohtani play, you are missing out. He is elite at pitching and hitting, and there only been one other player with that ability in MLB history. He is not dabbling into pitching, it’s not a circus sideshow. He is the real deal from both sides. Enjoy it while it lasts, don’t miss out.

Regardless of what Ohtani does going forward on the field, his most enduring legacy will likely be to change what Americans and Japanese think is possible with respect to baseball athletes. He's changed the paradigm.

I hope to see a lot of Ohtani wannabes come through the youth / HS / minor league ranks.

Hard disagree about discounting Ohtani’s SB numbers like that.

When Canseco was the first to go 40-40 you had guys like Rickey, Tim Raines and Vince Coleman routinely stealing 90 to 100 bases a year or more. Canseco’s 40 wasn’t even good enough to crack the top 10 back then, while Ohtani is currently 2nd in MLB.

Keep an eye out for Roki Sasaki as the next big thing coming from Japan. Who knows what will happen but he has been something else for his age.

One further bit of statistical perspective: Only three players (minimum 500 plate appearances) have finished a season with an OPS+ above 230: Barry Bonds (2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004), Babe Ruth (1920, 1921 and 1923) and Ted Williams (1941 and 1957). Ohtani currently sits at 175.

Oh, and Greg is right. on both points: "[1] He's probably the most recognizable name of any active baseball player in the world, is considered the best player the last few years by anyone who isn't a Yankees fan, outsells pretty much every other veteran player and the player he is most often compared to is the one and only Babe Ruth. How can he possibly be undervalued? [2] He doesn't need to get more pumped up hype to make money off his cards."

I am not into the modern stuff and therefore not an expert but his cards are not in short supply in any grade (and if they were it would be a manufactured rarity) and therefore not seeing that the cards are undervalued. I suppose as he continues to dominate in MLB, the prices will rise but not sure there is a single person alive who is not aware of his stature in baseball.

Personally I would still take a Williams, Aaron, Mays, etc rookie over an Ohtani.

Coincidentally, Judge's OPS+ was 230 before the start of today's game. I can't comment on card prices or quality of autographs, but I am glad to be able to witness two amazing seasons taking place in the same year.

Ohtani is amazing but before anyone starts comparing him to Ruth or waxes too poetic about his place in the pantheon, keep in mind his batting WAR is 26 and his pitching WAR is 15 for a total of 41.

Judge's WAR, just hitting, is over 50.

Deep breath. He has a long ways to go yet.

Well, I'm not convinced that aggregating Ohtani's hitting and pitching WAR to date is the best way to evaluate his place in modern baseball history.

Ohtani is analogous to a track and field athlete who wins the gold medal in both the 100 meter dash and the javelin in the 2028 Olympics. You only have to do that once to be in the Olympic pantheon.

There's also a pretty wide gap between what Bonds did before he every even started taking steroids and what Judge is doing now.

Ohtanis value to a franchise is worth more than the sum of the parts.

I agree. Judge is much better.

Why? Surely it isn't because he creates one extra roster spot. How much value does the last player on a team add?

I agree it's amazing, but isn't the ultimate question in baseball, what's his value?

Disclaimer: I am not interested no back-and-forth cause I not that smart ,
But off the field there’s jersey sales , ticket sales , television viewership , luxury boxes etc .
.. Admittedly I don’t watch Dodgers games because of Ohtani I just to see Mike Schildt and the Padres beat them

Ohtani is the largest presence in the two largest baseball markets in the world. I don't see how anyone could question why it's valuable for a franchise to have that player on their team.

Sure, but franchise economics and baseball are two different things and I thought we were discussing baseball.

I thought that what's you meant by his value. He's about to win his third MVP. I didn't think his value on the field was in question.

It's not at all in question. The issue is how great is that value in overall context. People speak of him as though he's possibly the best player ever. With a combined 41 WAR, that seems way premature to me.

We always need they hype. It is what drives almost everything in life and absolutely everything in our hobby and baseball in general. Nobody ever lives up to the hype and Mike Trout is about over so they had to move on.:D

The list of three time MVPs is small and aside from Trout, who is active, and Bonds and Arod who had their own issues we're familiar with, the rest of the list were first ballot HOFers. Good company to be in.

I agree he's unlikely to hit major milestones like 500 homers or 3,000 hits, or 300 wins / 5,000 strike outs, but I think most modern pitchers will also struggle to reach those milestones and most modern hitters won't win three MVPs.

He’s about to win his third MVP and he’s just entering his prime. He’s poised to be at least a 45-45 player during the year he’s rehabbing from Tommy John surgery. Oh and he’s an ace pitcher and the best two way player since Babe Ruth. Yes, he’s one of the greatest players in the past 50 years.

Agree

I would argue he's in the middle of his prime (28 - 32 for most baseball players) otherwise I would agree.

When it comes to the Dodgers, I'm more of a box score follower, but I couldn't help but see the footage from the 10-hour wait to get into Dodger Stadium for...the bobblehead day featuring Ohtani...and his puppy? Who "threw" out the first pitch. With Ohtani as the catcher.

Can you imagine Nolan Ryan out there on the mound with a puppy? Or Ichiro?

Ohtani is like the dorkiest dude, but people absolutely love him. Maybe it's because he's so dorky that they love him. He's like the anti-celebrity sportsman.

And, to add to the dork factor, it seems like he's also a card collector -- perhaps from his NPB days. (Which suggests he's a collector of Japanese cards.)

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ard-deal-topps

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40514044786...mis&media=COPY

Sharing with no additional commentary.

I'll add some commentary:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2024-TOPPS-....m43663.l10137

That's some expensive orange on the bottom.

Yes, no doubt. Topps Now cards were kind of cool -- and some of them still have great photos and commemorate noteworthy events -- but let's just say I've become quite cynical about the vast majority of them.

There are a lot of base cards printed, but you should do OK from a population standpoint if you stick with rookie auto's, early topps golds and blacks for low number, and topps (super short prints) or opening day (short print) photo variations.

I generally like the Topps Heritage cards. I thought this Ohtani, numbered to "only" 999, was fairly inexpensive but then again I don't know the market.

Cool card Peter! Absolutely, there are still good options.

These are my favorite Ohtanis. The 2023 Topps Now WBC is anything but rare, but I think it's an awesome photo. I like the 2013 BBM because it depicts Ohtani before he started squatting 500 for reps.

43/43

A month to go

LOVE seeing an Ohtani thread on here, he's the only modern player I PC. Here are a couple of my favorites.
https://www.heavy45s.com/ohtani202306_copy_768x1189.jpg
https://www.heavy45s.com/ohtani202305_copy_768x1180.jpg

These are very nice cards. The autos look a lot better than his more recent ones, which someone else pointed out look really lazily done.

Separately, I just learned that the 2013 BBM Rookie Edition #42 was Ohtani's first Japanese card (a batting version and a pitching version). Issued in February 2013.

https://japanesebaseballcards.blogsp...hronology.html

I bought the heritage purple refractor in psa 10 when the cards dropped a couple years back.i think it was a tad more than a hundred, it’s a really cool card and and has jumped to the 700 category now. Big fan of Heritage.

ohtani
 

I didnt see anyone say championships will be an issue if you want to be an all timer...we heard this about trout..

i know he was on the angels, but the dodgers are one of the top contenders this year..

So glad I picked up this bad boy a few years ago. The sky’s the limit with Ohtani and I think his numbered rookie autos are a tremendous investment.Attachment 633399


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If Ohtani hits .083 in the postseason, people will bring it up.

Ohtani is having a decent game today.

One home run away from a 50/50 season.:eek:

EDIT: Just hit HR #50.