LOL, it isn't that it can't be easily done. It is having access to the equipment to do it without others knowing. You saying how impossible this is. Is like saying what ever you do for a job is impossible to do because we don't have the technology to do it.

Also I have posted pics of counterfeit cards in PSA slabs multiple times but nonbelievers like you seem to ignore those posts.:)

Is there anyone that truly believes PSA never slabbed a fake? They absolutely have. Like that Cracker Jack Mack that was beyond hilarious, and others that are less embarrassing. There are lots of fakes, that is not the argument anyone has been making. No one can produce an example of a very good one.


How about you post the evidence and names you claimed to have in PM, but demanded I give you a list of any crimes myself and everyone I know has ever or I think has ever committed in order to get this evidence from you? :). Just post your evidence. If you cannot provide evidence, you are not going to convince anyone reasonable.

Posting about PMs on the forum, nice. Not only is that a POS move I believe it is against the few rules we have.

I have resolved myself to the fact that I am not capable to detect the better card doctoring alterations. Yes, I stay away from narrow boarders, and anything that looks suspicious to me, but honestly that's about my limit. Congrats to those who have a better eye.

End of the day, I have faith PSA/SGC can do a better job than me at detecting doctoring. So, if I choose to stay in the hobby and make purchases, I have to accept the odds of alterations and forge ahead. So any card of significant value I will buy already graded and scrutinize the card with my own eye and knowledge - that's the best I can do.

Uhhh...

I made a statement in another thread, in a different area of the forum:

The knowledge you guys have with respect to cards is insane. I have seen and read all of your complaints about the grading companies. Most would seem to be legitimate complaints.

Thus I asked: why doesn't someone on this forum buy some slabs and flips, and starting grading cards right here?

Any of the legalese can be answered by the attorneys who regularly post in these threads.

I was then informed that someone once did that very thing; someone named Bob who is no longer with us (RIP).

I highly doubt that any fakery would get past the knowledge base of this forum. Likewise, I believe cards would receive an honest grade, good or bad.

Think about it.

This might even convince someone like me, the advocate and champion of raw, to have some cards graded.

I do not see any rule that I cannot mention a PM related to a thread, only that I can't post a transcript without approval. The POS move is asking for a folder of incriminating material on everyone I have ever known in exchange for this evidence you allegedly have but refuse to disclose otherwise :rolleyes:.

For the 50th time, where is the evidence for your claims of these easy fakes? Just post it instead of bizarre trade proposals or obfuscating and pretending people are arguing that PSA has never slabbed a fake or whatever phony straw man excuse you'll invent next. Just sop bullshitting and post it. It's such an easy way to prove your case.

Same.

Not only is it too much of a gamble for me at that price point, but I'd be skeptical of someone selling a raw card in that range when they could easily have it graded and secure higher value and avoid any headaches. There are certainly times when a raw might intrigue me (estate sale, etc.), but without a compelling justification to ease my mind, I'd walk away.

And neither would the TPGs consistently. That's a real tough scenario when an alteration is (almost) undetectable.

I have considered it.
Designing my own slab and just going for it,or doing certificates like they do with Stamps.

My problem is hopeless disorganization. I'd probably end up with a highly variable turnaround time because I'd forget the backlog and do whatever came in today.

I also don't have what would be needed financially to maintain a database, especially with stuff people want today like QR codes.

That was probably me.

Theres an advantage older collectors have that seldom gets mentioned.
I "found" it a few years ago when we were discussing pretty much the same thing, and it was mentioned that experience handling the cards was important.
But I realized that when I was starting, lots of dealers at shows had stacks of low end Goudeys or pretty much any of the more common sets simply out on the table usually rubber banded.
So you could literally pick up and go through a few hundred at any show.

I also realized I hadn't seen that since the mid 80's. Yes there were stacks of cards, but fewer that were just loose. some were in pages, then sleeves, and toploaders, screwdowns, then grading came along.
not many collectors, or for that matter dealers have physically handled a lot of anything prewar outside some sort of holder.


As to it being easy, the level of difficulty would depend on the skill of the person doing it. I was around it and did some of the actual work occasionally for a bit over 2 years. With a bit of practice, and the equipment, yes, I could do a decent job of a Goudey. But I would have to spend maybe 5K on printing equipment, and practice a bit. And while the paper wouldn't be impossible it's not something I can just go pick up at Michaels.
A small print shop would have an easier time, the hard part is the color separations. Most counterfeits of modern cards that were done in the 80's failed because they made halftones of areas like border lines that were never halftones. A skilled small print shop could do it quicker.

I'm positive I've seen a convincing fake of an early 50's card, but being just a regular customer I wasn't in the know about who was shopping it around.

I don't know where it is, but I have one fake Goudey. The cardstock is right or very close, and it passed with a poor ebay scan. In hand though the printing is obviously done on a computer printer.

Bottom line is that while it's not hard for someone who knows how, it's not easy for someone who doesn't.

The only way I can think of to prove that is to setup a small print shop, and make a fake or two.... And that's not happening, I'd much rather spend the 5K i don't have on cards or stamps or bikes or beer, or ...... pretty much anything that wouldn't be likely to get me arrested.

The bold part is what I think most can't comprehend. My favorite response is "if it can be done make me a 1952 Mickey Mantle". LOL, it is always a 52 Mantle.

Nothing against anyone that works in a print shop but it is just another simple job pretty much a anyone with half a brain can do. My great Uncle owned a print shop my whole life that employed between 20-30 people until he sold it around 10 years ago. Score had a plant close so many friends and family worked there the entire time it was open. Two of my best friends have worked in print shops their entire adult life. I know enough about the subject I know what is possible. I never once said there is a big ring of counterfeiters pumping out cards. I have repeatedly said how easily it WOULD be to do.

Update, it is now 49 percent yes, 32 percent no, and 18 percent maybe.

Our group might have a better idea on Goudey's than some other groups.

.

Yes, I would buy a raw Goudey Ruth but it would need to be discounted or have amazing eye appeal. There are enough of them around that buyers can be choosers.
If it's an extremely rare card I'm not as picky.

From a reputable dealer here, who would back it up?

Absolutely.

54 years of collecting and the fact I care nothing about TPG so yes..... All day long.

54 years of collecting?!! Dan, did you dad give you wax packs to open in your playpen? :D

I would... If the price were appropriate

I wouldn't. First question is why the dealer hasn't graded it themselves. By keeping such a big card raw they are leaving money on the table. That's not in their self-interest so it would make me think something shady is going on.

Second, I don't have a ton of experience handling raw Goudeys. It's never been a set I've been into. As mentioned above, stacks of raw Goudeys aren't really around at shows anymore. While I do my best to educate myself, I'd be concerned that a good fake would fool me.

I paid $500 for 1933 Goudey Ruth and Gehrig in 1988. Paid another $500 for 1934-39 Harridge OAL Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb signed ball. This was at Chanute Air Force Base. Used $1000 of reenlistment bonus cash (well, a check I cashed) to buy the baseball stuff. The remaining $13,500 (yes, the government took out tax) bought a new 1988 Ford Mustang LX hatchback with 302 V8 and 5 speed manual. Put 326,000 miles on the Mustang. Still have the cards and the ball. So yes, as I said earlier on in this old thread and was typically ignored, I would and did buy a raw Ruth. Even though I have made bad decisions in life, like selling valuable cards for a fraction of their worth because I was desperate, I didn't sell these. And I won't ever sell them.

Dan's about the same age I am, except I didn't keep any cards from childhood or have Pops for a dad!
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