Here's the timeline according to ESPN:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ara-theft-line

Essentially, it says Mizuhara was lying to everyone at the beginning, through the team meeting after Game 1 against the Padres.

All communications between Shohei Ohtani and anyone else, had to go through Mizuhara, since he was the only interpreter around.

Even during the meeting, Shohei didn't know what was being said, since it was all in English.

After the meeting, Shohei asked someone what had been said.

It was at that point, that a different interpreter was brought in.

Shohei said he didn't recognize any of the things Mizuhara had said.

That's when Shohei's team came out with their side of things, regarding it being a theft, and Mizuhara was fired.

Steve

Where is the contradiction? Both statements are true. Just because I retired from gambling professionally to pursue a career in data science doesn't mean I suddenly stopped gambling altogether. I still gamble regularly. In fact I just gambled this week. Played a poker tournament. Made the final table.

I don't know him at all. Never met him and don't know anyone who has. But I know degenerate gamblers. They can't help themselves. A degenerate gambler isn't capable of signing the type of contract that he signed with the Dodgers. They don't make prudent decisions. They don't carry themselves with poise. They bathe themselves in shame and it's written all over their faces. Ohtani carries himself with honor. A degenerate gambling addiction is a coping mechanism for someone who is clinically depressed. Ohtani is the polar opposite of someone like that. You don't have to know him personally to observe these traits or to learn about the types of decisions he makes in life that preclude him from someone who fits the degenerate gambling profile. Most of them are also alcoholics.

Again, I'm not saying he doesn't gamble to some extent. I have no idea if he does or not. I'm just saying he's not a degenerate if so. You're free to disagree all you want. I don't really care. I'm just sharing my opinion and I'm confident in my reads of people.

From that article it is still clear that there isn’t a criminal investigation being conducted by any known law enforcement agency.

Still doesn’t seem like the central question has been answered: did anyone steal anything from anyone?

$4.5 million dollars is a lot of cash, plus all that wire fraud if the wires weren't from Ohtani himself. Seems like someone would have an interest if a crime occurred.

The issue is whether he gambled or not, not whether he is a "degenerate" gambler, as you acknowledge. So why is that even relevant? And clinical depression is not necessarily obvious from public demeanor either.

Face it. The interp had a dick job and pissed it all away due to greed. Maybe if he cuts Manfred's grass for the next 100 years he'll get a pass?

Not sure if this has been said yet… But did the interpreter work for Ohtani or the ball club? If Ohtani, then he could just 1099 him for all that money and take that off his adjustable gross, could he not? It wouldn’t be a criminal act if Ohtani didn’t file charges and would look good for the Japanese code or something along those lines.

I'm pretty sure he was employed by the Dodgers since everything I've read talked about hom being fired by the Dodgers.

This is correct. He was paid by the Dodgers...over 300K a year the guy was making. I think it is standard practice that the team covers the cost of an interpreter.

My understanding is that he has been with Ohtani since before his time with the Angels (?) so I'm sure Ohtani's deal was $2 mil a year + Mizuhara + etc.

According to the ESPN article, Mizuhara got around $85K per year from the Dodgers.

The next question I'd ask is this:

How could all of this affect Shohei's contract with the Dodgers?

Meaning, how much did the two sides rely on Mizuhara as the interpreter? Is Shohei fully aware of all the details in the contract?

If Mizuhara pulled any shenanigans in the negotiation of the contract, what will happen to it?

Steve

Per an ESPN article yesterday:

Mizuhara had a contract with the Los Angeles Angels when Ohtani played there and signed with the Dodgers this offseason. Mizuhara confirmed to ESPN he has been paid between $300,000 and $500,000 annually.

I would think that Ohtani's agents and lawyers were more involved with the contract negotiations than his interpreter would have been.

How do you file an income tax return when you aren't sure if you pulled in $300k or almost twice that?

.

His salary probably varies depending on various factors, from year to year. Mine does.

My mistake.

I went back and looked at the ESPN timeline, and it says that according to Mizuhara, he was paid around $85K by the Angels in 2021/22, and by then, he had lost over $1M.

By the end of 2022 Mizuhara had lost over $1 million. His debt then ballooned to $4 million by early 2023. He started gambling in 2021, when he first met the bookie.

So, between "the end of 2022", and "early 2023", his debt went from over $1M, to $4M! Remember, this was when he was making around (according to him), $85K per year. This guy was a complete mess!

Steve

Because he would have to be a true degenerate gambler to have placed any wagers that would jeopardize his baseball career.

No, I don't think so. Perhaps the skills that gave me an edge in gambling (mathematics & statistics) also helped me to analyze the sports card market, but I can't think of anything directly from that world that is particularly helpful here.

One thing that doesn't add up though, knowing how the underworlds of the sports betting world operate, is that there is no bookie on the planet that is going to extend a line of credit to someone for up to $4 million when they only make $300-500k per year, let alone $85k. So they must have felt confident that they would be receiving the money one way or another.

Travis, thanks for sharing this. Never heard of degenerate gambler, so I looked it up. Definitely opened my eyes.

https://gamblerspro.com/degenerate-gambler-are-you-one/

I've been collecting cards and sports memorabilia for 45 years, before recently selling everything off. At no point did I ever have the urge to spend money I didn't have, just to get that item I really wanted. It's just not in me.

I now know my Son is a degenerate gambler. I assume it started when he worked at a Casino right after high school. He worked there for a couple of years, but was later fired and banned from the Casino (I assume he stole from them). He had numerous jobs in which he stole from his employers to support his gambling habit. One business fired him for theft, then rehired him (owner was a friend of his mother), then he stole from them again. His only interaction with me over the last 15 years was when he was looking for money. He wasn't a good liar, so I didn't fall for his stories. I wouldn't hear from him for years at at time.

After not hearing from him for the past two years, he reached out to me. He told me that he was arrested for stealing from his employer and that they pressed charges (none of the other business filed charges, they just fired him). He said he was facing jail time and it scared him to death because he has a 6 year old son. I was able to check and verify that he was telling me the truth. He told me how he was going through counseling and how much he has learned from it, blah blah blah. Well, being that I was a legal officer in the military for 25 years, and I have seen many young Sailors turn themselves around after getting into trouble, I let my guard down. I believed and trusted him. I was proud of him for turning a corner to better his life. He was very convincing. He played me for about a month, before working his magic to get money out of me. I guess the father in me wanted to believe in him, more than I should have. He had a debt that he needed taken care, so I wanted to help him, so he could continue to get himself out of debt. Well, once he got the money (not a loan), he again pressed for money a few weeks later. That's when I knew he didn't learn a thing. Possible jail didn't scare him. When he wasn't going to get any more money from me, he got angry and turned back into his old nasty, hateful self again.

It's truly difficult for me to understand the mindset they have. But the above article did help somewhat. It's truly sad to see my Son ruin his life over gambling. And he's not even good at it.

Thanks, Tony

I confess.

I'm a degenerate collector.:eek:

Heartbreaking story Tony, thank you for sharing. Gambling is a particularly nasty addiction that not only ruins the life of the gambler but also has devastating effects of those around him as your story so poignantly points out.

I believe the consequences of major league sports embracing gambling will only produce more stories like that of your son in the years to come.

Phil,

Thanks! What’s more frustrating is that he’s to the point where I can’t help him anymore. He only lashes out and says very nasty and hateful things. I have to continue to watch him spiral his life out of control. He’s owes $20,000 in back child support and just continues to dig himself in a deeper hole. My worry and fear is that if he goes too deep down the hole, and he feels he has no way out, he will end his life. My worst nightmare! Before gambling, he was a great kid with a good heart.

Welcome to the group!


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I know from personal experience the torment Japanese go through trying to learn foreign languages; still, I think, Ohtani would have been better served if had started an intensive English course when he decided to jump baseball countries.
If he could handle simple press conference questions in English, without the need for a interpreter with whom he formed an intimate relationship, I wonder if this situation would have arisen.

Or just a degenerate. :eek:

Apparently Ohtani is going to speak to the media on Monday. Should be interesting to hear what he has to say.

Man, I hope to God it's his interpreter telling us what he's 'saying'!!!!!!!! :D

Ex-degenerate!!!

They'll have to bring in a pinch-interpreter for the guy they benched.


It's got all the makings of a great SNL skit.


Interpreter saying someting completely different than what Ohtani is saying.


John Belushi as Ohtani.

Given that few of on here understand Japanese I am not sure we will be able to determine if his statement is genuine/authentic, etc but I think it is probably a good sign that he is making the statement and suggests innocence on his part.

Even if he is guilty I assume MLB would find a way to look the other way given his importance in the game. At first I heard the IRS and FBI were conducting their own investigations. Does anyone know if this is accurate?

So the more I read the more, the odd progression of the story actually seems to make sense.

As weird as the story is, along with the weird change in the story very early on; It actually makes perfect sense. The first statement by Ohtani's reps WAS TRANSLATED BY THE INTERPRETER. When Ohtani found out that what was said was NOT the truth, the story changed TO THE TRUTH almost immediately and they realized that he'd been robbed. That's what made it seem like the story oddly changed almost immediately, because they caught the thief lying about the problem and realized that he stole the money and then issued a fabricated statement that made it seem like the money was actually given to him.

Also, people say, Ohtani had to give him permission to wire the money, but as a business owner who receives wires all the time, I can tell you that many banks allow wires to be sent completely online and all you need is the bank log in and account # information, which a man who was "like a brother" to Ohtani certainly could've finagled access to.

Finally Ohtani is vociferously anti-gambling. He refuses to go to casinos with teammates etc. There's almost no chance he is somehow gambling and blaming the interpreter.

Love that you're a multi game guy in Poker. Nice 4th place in the O8 tourney! Since I'm an East Coast old fart I'm a Seven Stud specialist who became a decent Hold 'em player. We likely walked right past each other at the WSOP somewhere along the line.

Online wires are typically limited as to how much you can send even for very high net worth clients. Even if in this case the wire was not limited from Ohtani's account, the wire would require log in info to a bank account, which most people would not hand off even to a best friend, third party verification (typically a multi digit numeric code that is texted to the account holder's cellphone). Lastly I cannot imagine any banking institution not also requiring verbal confirmation with the account holder that the wire was authorized and that would include asking for other personal info to verify the person they are speaking with is the account holder.

If Mizuhara had all of that info on Ohtani, then Ohtani's people had better examine his bank accounts for additional possible other transactions that Mizuhara helped himself to. They have known one another since 2013.

I love seven card stud. Such a great underappreciated game. When I play, I usually like to play mixed games. Stud, Omaha, HORSE mix, 8-game, stuff like that. I play a fair amount of holdem too, but that's just because that's what most people want to play. I rarely play tournaments though. I'm primarily a cash game player.

I'm sorry to hear about your son's struggle with his gambling addiction. I've witnessed similar behavior from numerous friends over the years as well. It's more common than most people realize, and as you're currently experiencing, it can tear apart families. If I can offer any advice, the most important thing to remember is that this truly is like a disease. It's actually a cognitive disorder. It's similar to an adrenaline junkie. It's not just about getting money, it's about the dopamine rush that they experience when they win. He physically can't help himself. There are free programs out there that can help though, if he's willing to put in the work. The best thing you can do as a father is to have an open and honest conversation with him. Read more about the disease and tell him you're trying to understanding what he's going through and that you want to be there to support him. But you also have to tell him that because of his addiction, you have to draw a hard line in the sand when it comes to money, and make it clear that he won't be getting any from you. But be sure he knows that you love him, that you understand what he's going through, and that you're there for support. Take him fishing, if that's your thing. Get him away from that environment, and encourage him to find help. People in his position often feel immense shame. They get down on themselves because they think they've failed everyone who placed their trust in them, and they lose hope. They lose friends over borrowing money. I have several friends from my former life as a professional gambler who owe me money. I know they'll never pay me back, and I'm at peace with it. I had dinner with one of my friends who owed me money after a couple of years of not seeing or talking with each other, and the shame was written all over his face the moment I saw him. He couldn't even look me in the eye. We were good friends too. I knew he couldn't afford to pay me back and that I'd never see that money, but I didn't care. He was hoping I would just avoid the topic, but I told him right out of the gate that I didn't care about the money and that I wanted him to keep it and that I just wanted to catch up on life. I told him I didn't want him to carry that burden anymore. His eyes welled up with tears. He's not someone who experiences forgiveness or empathy from others very often. Any amount of love, empathy, forgiveness, and patience that you can give to your son will go a long way. Make sure he knows that you understand what he's going through and that you refuse to let it ruin your relationship.

Travis, thank you very much for the advice. Much appreciated! Sorry everyone for injecting my personal life into this thread.

No need to apologize.

We all have fun with our kids driving us nuts sometimes. But this definitely gives us perspective to count our many blessings, because it could always be worse.

Report now is that Ohtani will read a prepared statement sometime this afternoon and take no questions so seems unlikely there will be many answers to the questions that are still out there about what happened.

Ohtani said he's not a gambler and the money sent to the bookie wasn't because of his betting, he said he doesn't gamble.

If he was tied to gambling but didn't bet on baseball and came clean about it, then things would just go away after a while. He has more to lose by lying than telling the truth (unless he bet on baseball). Things would come back 10x worse if he were caught in a lie.

I believe him.

Let the season begin!

100% agree, Ohtani strikes me as someone who has great integrity and would be the last person to bet on baseball. Alas, American media needs meat for the grinder and salacious story>truth is more important.

Go Giants!

It already did in South Korea. We already have two teams (Dodgers and Padres) that can no longer win all 162 games this year.


Brian

Not to be a cynic, but one of the reasons I believe Ohtani's version of events is that a guy who is making at least $50 million per year in endorsements and who has a $700 million contract in place (with probably expectations of something north of $500 million even a couple of years ago) isn't going to get into debt for $4.5 million with some dodgy bookie in California.

If he's a closet gambler, I'm sure he would have ways to get his fix from trusted sources in Japan, where he is more likely to have his privacy protected and respected.

well
 

maybe a pachinko in the house?

Of course, the poker game with the most strategic elements is strip.

Anyone see the video of Pete Rose saying he sure wish he'd have had an interpreter hahahaha!

Pete Rose is always happy to make light of his actions and even lie about them. He’s a piece of shit of a human being. Ohtani is not.

Wow. You are probably right, but I am impressed you can speak of Ohtani with such certainty, when his public exposure has been so shielded.


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I lived in Japan 7 years. I learned to speak Japanese good enough to moonlight first as a bartender and later as a cab driver, and finally as a teacher of English to newly hired Japanese employees. I found learning Japanese to be fairly easy (it can be a difficult language), and it made it easy and fun to be a gaijin (foreigner). Maybe Ohtani could learn some English, the way Ichiro Suzuki did, with all of millions of dollars.

"I am impressed you can speak of Ohtani with such certainty, when his public exposure has been so shielded"

I agree with this. How anybody can have a meaningful opinion about somebody they have never met, have never heard speak (excepting those who understand Japanese), and whose personal life is essentially unknown, seems odd.

I have no reason to doubt Ohtani's version of events, but I would point out that we have two versions of events: One that existed before the lawyers got involved and one that emerged after the lawyers got involved. The first one implicated Ohtani in a crime that baseball might not be able to ignore. The second one didn't.

It is also plausible that the cooperation of the interpreter in any scenario preferred by the lawyers could easily be purchased for a lot less than $700M. If this was an NBA player accused of an impropriety and a witness changed their story in a way that exonerated the player, would anybody doubt the witness had been "bought off"?

That's true, but only one we've heard directly from the horse's mouth.

I frankly think that the about-face on the story was so abrupt, awkward, and suspicion-inducing, that I cannot imagine that any proper law firm would have advocated for that strategy.

One thing is for sure. If Ohtani retires and plays for the Wizards for a year and a half before returning to baseball we know he was guilty.:eek::D

Ok this is the best reply in this entirely odd chain...you win hands down my friend. :D:D:D:D

+1

2024

Can anyone explain yet how this relates at all to Pete Rose? Ohtani is not even accused, in anybody’s version of events, of betting on any baseball games whatsoever.

Every time read $4.5 mil, my mind thinks what cards I’d have bought lol

Not the same, but Pete Rose, as identified in a previous post and as seen in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY3K6YOCuk4

kind of links Ohtani to his gambling behavior when he says "Back in the 70's and 80's, if I had an interpreter, I would be scot free."

Mind you, this is Pete Rose's logic.


Brian

Got it, thank you

Just an ex/retired player's opinion/thoughts on the matter. He's not buying Ohtani is innocent.

Ex-MLB all-star doubts Shohei Ohtani’s innocence in gambling scandal
https://torontosun.com/sports/baseba...mbling-scandal

Well if Pete Rose implied it, then it must be true. Case closed.

If I'm in charge of the music at an Ohtani road game, every time he comes to the plate I'm playing this....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hx4gdlfamo

Cute. But if I were the commissioner of baseball, I would ban stuff like this.

A few years ago while the Braves were playing the Blue Jays the Braves played "Beat It" while Reese McGuire was walking to the batters box.

Had to Google that. That was great. Hopefully someone has the balls to do it to Ohtani.

https://bluejaysnation.com/news/watc...laying-beat-it

I am so sick of pussyfooting around with elitist BS.

If Ohtani wants to maintain good PR, do the following:

LEARN HOW TO SPEAK ENGLISH WHILE COLLECTING HALF A BILLION DOLLARS!

Fix the PR disaster with his first Dodger Stadium home run ball. 2 signed hats, a signed bat and a signed ball instead of the HR ball, and a threat from the Dodgers that they would refuse to authenticate the ball? Fuck the Dodgers! I hope Ohtani blows up in their fat faces.

From what I read, it does sound like Dodgers security did not treat the people who had the home run ball fairly. However, I saw that someone from Heritage said the ball would be worth $100,000. I don't follow memorabilia prices. Does that seem reasonable to anyone who does? It seems like a lot more than I would have expected.

I think it might sell for more right now just because Ohtani is in the news and him being on the Dodgers is a new thing. But the ball isn't a real milestone home run and I would highly doubt the valuation in an auction that didn't happen today.

I also think it's interesting that Ohtani has once again failed to tell the truth about even an innocuous circumstance like meeting a fan.

The entire situation surrounding Ohtani this year has been a mess. At this point, I don't think we'd ever find out the truth about the betting scandal/interpreter scandal. A part of me wants to clear Ohtani of wrong doing, but the cynical other part of me, believes that Ippei was the fall guy. And the end of the day the MLB would not want to lose their Golden Goose, even if he bet on games.

Whoever handles his PR should be launched into the sun, they've done a terrible job. As a side note, I believe Ohtani does speak English, but is more comfortable speaking through an interpreter. There's nothing wrong with that, and while I do respect his privacy, Celebrities now aren't afforded the privacy they once were. Especially ones of his caliber. He's for all intents and purposes, the face of the MLB.

Ohtani speaks through an interpreter for the same reason I'd use one if I were playing in a Spanish speaking nation: I understand what you're saying but I'm not comfortable speaking the language on television or being ridiculed for my accent or small grammatical errors or whatever.

The entire situation surrounding Ohtani this year has been a mess. At this point, I don't think we'd ever find out the truth about the betting scandal/interpreter scandal. A part of me wants to clear Ohtani of wrong doing, but the cynical other part of me, believes that Ippei was the fall guy. And the end of the day the MLB would not want to lose their Golden Goose, even if he bet on games.

Whoever handles his PR should be launched into the sun, they've done a terrible job. As a side note, I believe Ohtani does speak English, but is more comfortable speaking through an interpreter. There's nothing wrong with that, and while I do respect his privacy, Celebrities now aren't afforded the privacy they once were. Especially ones of his caliber. He's for all intents and purposes, the face of the MLB.

He seems to understand it and can speak English when he wants to - https://www.newsweek.com/video-shohe...mments-1609029

I would think this makes it less and less plausible he had no idea what his interpreter was saying in his public statements on the issue though.

I have met several pro athletes from other countries that play the I don't speak English card. It lets them not have to do interviews or interact with the bat shit crazy fans wanting autographs and pictures as much.

Ive met people who were born in the US and have lived here their entire lives who will selectively use the "I dont speak English" escape. I would too if I knew any other language well enough to pass.

Just heard on ESPN the amount is now 16 million

The story I read also claims that the interpreter was able to steal this insane amount of money by simply turning off the notifications that would have alerted Ohtani to the transactions.

I don't know who is expected to believe that. I guess maybe if you're a person who's never had a personal bank account you might believe it's that easy to steal millions of dollars from someone undetected.

But does a person who has a personal bank account and makes withdrawals from ATMs believe that? This one doesn't.

I can't really understand why anyone would believe banking regulations and security measures are so lax that simply turning off a notification will give you unrestricted access to someone's account. I access my account from new and multiple devices when necessary. I receive a security verification code each and every time. This code goes to both my phone and e-mail address. I highly doubt Ohtani has one single device he uses for his banking and that he would not receive personal notifications each and every time his account was accessed from a new device. He'd have to notice the notifications were turned off every time he expected to receive that code and couldn't access his own account.

Perhaps a stupid question, but

If Ippei made something like $300K-$500K from the ball team and Ohtani per year, it is realistic that he would even be able to rack up $16M of gambling debt? Obviously an illegal bookie is not really regulated, but I would think that, you know, after the first million of debt they would stop taking your bets and that for such large scale clients they would make sure you have some ability to actually pay. It does not make sense to me that they would allow such massively impossible debt without a guarantee or some contact with Ohtani. Surely the bookie knows the translator doesn't have that kind of cash himself.

duplicate post -

update just now -

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/f...th-bank-fraud/

Feds found Mizuhara embezzled over 16 million from Ohtani. He is in the process of taking a plea deal now.

"The U.S. Attorney's Office has obtained recordings of telephone calls in which Mizuhara allegedly spoke to bank employees and falsely claimed to be Ohtani, including providing biographical information, in order to ensure the bank would approve the wire transfers. Estrada also alleged that Mizuhara denied anyone else access to Ohtani's bank account, including his agent, accountant and financial advisor."

This is definitely an outline of how to not trust people explicitly, and understand you need to have checkers for the checkers when your finances are such that 16 million can go missing and it's not noticed. Imagine a situation like Elon, where if you did not have an army of accountants a literal half billion could walk away and you may not notice for a year. Certainly is a different life than I can understand, but I feel for the guy. I hope this pushes him to focus on building his english and being a bit more safe.