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Seriously though, this is horsesh**. I don't see E-bay authenticity doing anything but passing that right through. Denying your return and making you wait 6 weeks to get pay pal involved. AND I wouldn't buy Squat from Memory Lane again if I was you. In fact, I'd probably not buy a thing for a month or 2 and dream of selling it all. Anything less than them demanding the card back with egg on their face is not acceptable, IMHO. In fact I just signed up at "Thanks for the memories", LOL...never to bid on a thing.:eek: Thanks for the "memories" we hardly knew ya:mad: |
[QUOTE=Stonepony;2413635][QUOTE=Snowman;2413573]No, they don't. I don't understand how this turned into a discussion about them doctoring scans or photoshopping images or anything like that. There is no reason to come to that conclusion. They're scanning cards and failing to disclose creases that don't show up in the scans. They're not doctoring images.
How do you explain these images? Every scan I take shows everything. How is their scanner filtering that out ya think?..."Contrast" :D |
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I will agree with a post above that in todays market. Good descriptions and hi res images should save auction houses time on the phone, and having graphic artists on the payroll. |
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I'll pass, they won't miss my revenue |
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The second part of my post was on auction houses (ANY) and how they they should use Hi Res images. Its rare I ever do business with PWCC for many reasons. Glad you’ve had success with PWCC Snowman. Maybe you know Brent personally or might even be an investor. |
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The FBI investigation turned out to be a nothing burger. Zero charges were filed. Just as I, very loudly, predicted would be the case. |
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That said, PWCC was just one branch of a much larger investigation. And no charges were brought against any one person or entity, despite a copious amount of evidence having been handed over to the FBI and multiple subpoenas having been issued. Regardless, PWCC is under new ownership anyhow, so whatever Brent was up to really isn't relevant anymore IMO. |
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If Mastro popped up with an AH tomorrow , and he had great "stuff", it would all sell for market value. |
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I rarely ever scan cards. I simply take a photo with my iphone with the card under a good light source, and they turn out super - showing all the flaws, creases, etc.
The before and after receipt photos are amazing. The creases seem to be so bad they would show up with an old Kodak disposable. Sorry for everyone's loss, and that is what it is, a loss. |
I think you will get your money back and this was probably some unintentional screwup. Cautionary tale though for how much difference scan settings can make.
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My bet would be on this conclusion. I have firsthand experience on buying a currency in NM-MT and it having a good sized indention in it, after in person inspection. I was told the large type scanner the company used didn't pick it up. It was a quick refund...
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My guess is whoever wrote the description did not have the card in hand. I imagine with many auction houses -- and especially for lots that are middle or lower tier -- the short description is based on the scan the writer is given rather a firsthand review of the card.
In any case, I'd be very surprised if the auction house doesn't allow a refund or offer a workable solution for both parties. As an aside, the main writer for this auction house knows every aspect of the hobby inside and out. He wouldn't be deceitful about the condition of the card, and I'm confident the same is true of the auction house overall. Best to allow them the full opportunity to make this right. |
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Well, I have good news to report. I received a check from Memory Lane for a full refund on the Goudey Gehrig plus $100 to cover return shipping.
It came as a bit of a surprise though, as I did not receive a follow up phone call or an email response regarding the card after they received it back in hand. They just sent out a check. But I'm OK with that. At least they made it right in the end. |
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We'll see, going forward, if they try the same stunt? |
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I am glad it worked out.
I am in no way excusing selling that card with that scan, but scans are tricky. I try to scan every card I buy and sometimes the same setting on the same scanner produces very different results with different cards. Creases are especially dicey; sometimes they show up, sometimes not. If I sell a card with a crease online I try to mention the crease even if I can see it, but I am one guy doing all the tasks. The writers at ML might not have had the card in hand, just the scan, when writing it up. When you are scanning large numbers of cards for sale and have a scanner setting down, odds are you are not looking at every scan the way a collector would, and if your work flow is broken up in a manner that leaves the card in the vault and circulates images, this sort of thing can happen as a 'garbage in, garbage out' situation. Now, if ML relists with the same deceptive scans, we veer into the realm of intentionality. As far as remedying the situation, it doesn't help that most AHs' idea of customer service is that once the card is delivered, service is over. I think it more likely than not that had Snowman not started shit-posting Memory Lane on boards like this, he would still be arguing for a refund. |
I believe Memory Lane is reputable and will do the right thing.
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(They already did.) . |
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This was like a 2K card with an obviously bad scan, not a major sale. I have no doubt ML would have refunded the money once they got the card and confirmed the error/bad scan, regardless of Travis bringing it up here, as the mistake was that clear.
You guys can't really think that ML is in the business of ripping people off for a thousand or two thousand bucks? If anything, and I don't speak for ML -- they surely could have been pissed about this being outed before they were given the chance to rectify it. I don't blame Travis for doing so, it's a hobby issue and he's certainly allowed. But the negative backlash occurred before they had the chance to make things right and they're not the auction house known for misleading scans. They could be a bit pissed. No auction house is perfect and shit can happen with so many lots. In this hobby, if an error is fixed painlessly, we should celebrate it. |
Celebrate it...
Here ya go. Note the shoes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M Quote:
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Very smart, business move memory lane good job. No need to address anything send out the check make it right and move on. Good job.
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Despite the impressive numbers PWCC did on eBay, they represented a immaterial amount of eBay's bottom line. With that said, I am sure eBay did not want PWCC taking their sales to their own site but if that was a violation of the agreement PWCC had with eBay, namely they will not compete, and then they went ahead and competed, why can't eBay simply steer clear of a potential libel suit and just say, PWCC violated terms and boot them? Anyway, glad you got made whole by ML. Great to hear that they did the right thing. I still contend it was a complete oversight. |
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& Oil's well, that ends well Travis! |
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That is just the beauty of this board. So many people with different opinions. Some support card restoration and some call it alteration. TJ I am sorry to hear about your issues with the Gehrig. I know you have a great collection and eye for detail. I agree the pics are made to look better than what you got. Glad things were made whole. |
The card is up again in their new action: https://memorylaneinc.com/site//bids...rities-auction
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brianp(arker)-beme |
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Probably not the best choice by the house but my take away from this is that if the scan of the Gehrig is so misleading what does that imply about the other scans for the other cards they auction? Not sure we would know if they are getting a lot of returns unless we compare prior auction sales to the current auction. |
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Who runs Memory Lane these days?
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The description states creasing and wrinkles. I don't expect an AH with such a huge auction to make sure each and every scan used settings designed to fully convey each card's flaws. Especially for a lower end lot. Rather, if I saw a description of a PSA 1 that stated wrinkles and creasing-- knowing how 1s are graded and knowing how scans do not always show surface issues the way an angled camera photo does-- I would simply ask the AH about the card, perhaps request an additional image.
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And for them to relist the same card again, after all of this, is ridiculous. |
In my own collecting experience, I've seen enough scans at various auctions of lower grade cards to know that a scan can more often than not fail to present the full picture. In reality, I would imagine an AH simply scans each lot and moves onto the next scan, rather than scanning a card and pausing to evaluate whether the scan adequately showcases all the card's flaws, and then re-scanning or adjusting settings to accomplish that. I'd therefore simply put some onus on myself as a shopper if I was interested in the item, and call or email the AH to ask for some more details or images.
So yes, it could be any range of creases or wrinkles and learning the precise degree of wear would matter a great deal; I'd choose direct communication with the AH about the lot as the best route to obtaining that information. |
I sent them the scan of the card that shows the wrinkles and creases and asked them to replace it with the current image in their auction. Let's see if they do the right thing!
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Well if it's perfectly alright not to disclose alterations, I don't see the problem. Why would it be held to a higher standard of disclosure? Plus, the description says it is creased even, exceeding the standard :rolleyes:
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Gehrig Goudey
FYI, I have just been informed by the Memory Lane office that a high-resolution scan will be posted to the website within the next 24 hours revealing the horizontal wrinkles.
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This card was returned to the house for that exact reason and they did not take the time to make any effort? As I asked earlier, what else is hidden in their scans on other lots? Also, if this card is not worth their time putting more effort into then what is their threshold for value where they are a bit more conscientious? They did refund the buyer, to their credit, but I think they have an all sales final policy like most houses. Burden is on them, imo. |
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As a reminder, the previous description from when I won it read, "Soiling and wear are evident on the front, but nothing takes away from the pinstriped Gehrig central image. Clear verso." I'll be curious to see what the hammer price is this time around. The one I won sold for $3763. |
Memory Lane Gehrig expectation vs reality
They have added the additional photos. Most notably:
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[QUOTE=4815162342;2426417]They have added the additional photos. /QUOTE]
Claws like those could scratch the slab! Brian |
Memory Lane Gehrig expectation vs reality
Really wish we could now remove “Memory Lane” & “Gehrig” (Replace with “Auction House”) from the title as this is an ongoing issue with the majority of auction houses.
Note: I’m happy Snowman’s issue was resolved & looking forward to the hammer price of the re-listing. Personally, I wish the topic of image / scan manipulation would get more attention. Same for lack of detail in descriptions. Here’s an example. This SGC 2.5 1968 Topps 3-D Test Roberto Clemente card was sold in 2017 by PWCC via eBay. Nice pics & description. Plus, this card is really condition sensitive (plastic was used & degrades over decades) so when buying online, an accurate listing is important. E.g. cracks & discoloration will only worsen over time and i know from owning a graded mint on card kenner star wars vinyl cape jawa that i consigned w/ Hake's last yr (it developed 2 small discoloration spots sometime between 2020 and 2023 that Hake's perfectly disclosed in their July 2023 auction ) https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1500138 This exact card sold again last month via Goldin. While they mentioned the front discoloration was faint (it isn’t) , there was no mention of be back crease / wrinkle. I get it though. The final price wouldn’t have been so high if the pics didn’t have the settings configured as it (e.g. brightness). https://goldin.co/item/1968-topps-3-...-good-2-5sowtt https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3a9cf06fb3.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...25c160d342.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2d6e573694.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6454946ba3.jpg |
Precisely, TJ. Given how scans can not always tell the full picture (in either direction— either overstating or understating a card's flaws), if one is really very interested in a card at auction it can only be helpful to be a proactive buyer and inquire, ask for more images, etc.
We'd all love to collect/buy cards in some ideal reality where every AH takes a beat to make sure each and every lot description and image accurately presents the card as it is in hand— but it is doubtful that will ever be the standard or reality. Wanting AH's to operate in that ideal fashion makes all the sense in the world yet expecting it can lead to frustration and disappointment. So one way to try and mitigate those headaches is to be proactive. |
Watch for this card again after Kurt's Card Care gets his hands on it.;)
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If the AH doesn't do right to Travis due to their blatant misrepresentation, then they truly need to get blasted by those who condemn such an obvious injustice. Whoever did the description and omitted the obvious creases should get the sack.
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You might’ve missed a post or two. They refunded him and relisted the card with an accurate description and then posted representative photos. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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There's been a new development in this saga with Memory Lane. In response to me posting this thread, they have revoked my bidding privileges. Clearly, they'd like to make a statement. If you criticize them publicly, they will punish you.
Thanks for showing your true colors Memory Lane. GFY. |
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Sorry to hear this is how Memory Lane decided to treat you after their obvious misrepresentation of the card in question. Facts: Memory Lane lists a card in their auction that doesn't show the obvious multiple creases and wrinkles. Travis receives the card, sees the multiple creases and wrinkles, requests a refund, sends the card back, receives a refund without any communication or at least a minimum "regret any inconvenience." Memory Lane then relists the image of the same card again, is aware of this thread, adds a new image of the card showing the creases and wrinkles, then bans Travis from bidding because he shared his story. Oh sure, Travis is the bad guy in this scenario. Shame on you Travis :rolleyes: My generation, we didn't have the internet or social media. This is what people do today, and I think it's a good thing. My generation, when situations like this occurred, the business always did right by the customer. Businesses cared about what people thought about their business. It was their reputation on the line. Memory Lanes lack of professionalism and maturity is evident in this situation. Oh, and by the way, great job Memory Lane, you now have one less customer. |
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i still think if someone feels that didnt get an accurate card and it cost them a few k, and a refund was not first given, i dont think they would care if prevented from bidding again as long as they got their money back |
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