Points taken. Sounds good. Frank Thomas and Bagwell are comps I think.

Quan brought up Mike Scott, I'll start my own thread on that one day. That 1986 Cy Young year, whoa...Cheers

Look at those per 162. Look at that OPS+. Look at the era context. To claim that at his best, as has been repeatedly claimed, Trout's ceiling is to be roughly equal to Jeff Bagwell is utterly and completely devoid of a mathematical basis.

B.J. Surhoff has more hits than Jeff Bagwell. He's better than Bagwell. Tom Brown scored more runs than Jeff Bagwell, he's better. Adam Dunn ended up with more home runs than Bagwell, he's better. A reasonable person would see how ridiculous and illogical those arguments are and be cognizant that while playing time matters, it is not everything, and it is almost completely irrelevant when one is basing it not on career value but on their upside performance ceiling.

A reasonable argument could probably be had if we looked at if Trout's 85.2 WAR vs. Bagels 79.9 is a good standard, has Trout up to today actually produced more value in his much shorter career? But that take isn't hot enough, evidently.

Can't wait to see what the next ridiculous argument based on an absurd bias is. Maybe we can debate if Ted Simmons was better than Johnny Bench because he accumulated a bit more in raw traditionals over a longer time.

At 31, Trout is a 10 time All Star with 3 MVP awards. At 31, Jeff Bagwell was a 4 time All Star with 1 MVP award. It seems cut and dry to me.

Probably the same guy who compared Bobby Grich to Derek Jeter.

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Best 5 seasonal totals...

Bagwell Runs Trout
152................. 129
143................. 123
126....................115
124....................110
111....................109

HR
48........................39
43........................39
40........................32
37.........................32
37.........................28

RBI

135.......................111
132.......................104
130........................100
126........................97
120........................90

Wins v Replacement Player %
8.2...........................10.5
7.7...........................10.5
7.5............................9.9
7.4............................9.6
6.3............................8.9


Bagwell played 15 seasons and Trout has played 13.


Trout is 31 and Ohtani is 28. Do you guys concede that Ohtani is better than Trout from the eye test? I don't see Ohtani catching Trout in what you guys call "counting stats."

Check out Ty Cobb's home run totals.

Can anyone give a coherent argument that Runs, RBI's and HR's over a career or season is NOT a counting stat?

Some of this crap is just absolutely ridiculous lol

If you enjoy betting

What would the over/under be on the # of times Trout Plays in the Playoffs/