I vote: no comps allowed in BST threads. If a buyer negotiates via PM/email, then the seller can use their comps to justify the price via the private PM/email, but not in the thread. This would make the rules simple.

I'd vote not to "over legislate" the B/S/T. If someone posts misleading comps, so be it. As a seller you will develop an unseemly reputation and likely also be called out by a member or two. Expect it. Mod's allow it to happen. Of course forum etiquette still applies.

And that's the thing, if you're going to post ridiculous comps from say, 2021, then you invite others to call out your unscrupulous behavior. Don't get mad when they do. Most understand ~Buyer Beware~

I’m ok with this, I know m off a lot of times with pricing.


Perhaps other areas also not only pricing and sales. Education is how we grow!

i'd like someone to tell me my price is too low...as this has been my issue in the past...so I could raise it!!!

Lol me too. It took me a while to figure out that having everything I list sell within an hour isn’t necessarily a good thing.

I would tell you. After I posted/PMed you I would take it and then received it in the mail.;):D

There was a T206 BST thread in which the seller drastically under-priced a Titus. That discussion became a bit...spirited.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ighlight=titus

So, the door does swing both ways. In either case, the end result seems similar.

Haha! Nice ben! Its the stuff that sells in minutes or less! Either super desirable or underpriced!!

This pair is relatively pertinent to the thread. You just have to switch the focus of the first one to selling rather than trading...

483. Mathematricks (or Laughtermath)
The purposeful use of only outlier data by someone trying to convince you that the card he is offering in a trade is equal to the high value card of yours he’s looking to score.

519. Fool’s Sold
Adding a new post to your own thread (that everyone is now forced to read) to declare that the card has been sold, instead of simply editing the title to reflect this fact.

That portrait of Honus Wagner never showed up in any auction I've seen. I recall over the course of 3-4 years there were repeated representations that it was off to auction and how we would all regret the staggering selling price it would score.

FWIW, I listed a card several months ago and unintentionally understated the graded pop. (I had not accounted for cards with this particular back that have been graded without a note regarding the back variation.) I received feedback in a subsequent post, and really appreciated the opportunity to learn and correct my listing.

pricing
 

and it could turn into a real mess, allowing guys to comment/counter/ rip apart/ piss off people with stuff like -

Yea, dude...but its not the exact same card

That was 2 years ago, prices have come down

That player/ card is no longer red hot

Your friggin insane asking that much

etc, etc

Now , believe me...their are probably loads of members that would love to fire back a post to a seller whos " looking for as much as he could get " ... but it would be messy

It would be incredibly entertaining ..no doubt ...but could lead to one of those 500-1000 post responses ! LOL

Agree 100%. The buyer should do their homework.

I like this idea.

There seems to be a pretty good consensus that "Buyer should do their homework."

I guess everyone's cool when they are ripped off and are the victim of fraud.

"Hey, that car you just bought with the representation that the odometer was never messed with. Sorry. I just signed that. It's total bullshit. Buy, hey, you're cool with that, right?"

"That seller's disclosure for the house you bought? Yeah, I sort of lied on a good deal of that. That white stuff in the basement actually is asbestos. And the roof wasn't replaced in 2007. Ooopsie!"

"That card was actually trimmed. A few AHs told me that. And no I didn't feel a need to tell you that."

Same here. It’s incumbent on us as fellow members to call out any inaccuracies or misleading statements and to protect our fellow board members. Not our job to critique pricing absent anything misleading though.

I can believe you prior to a certain date but as someone who worked for the largest mortgage lender in the country and now works for the largest government sponsored mortgage investor in the country, I can assure you that if there is now the slightest proven impropriety the appraiser and appraisal is gone forever. The Wild West of appraisal is long gone. Now, you more than likely would forced to use the first appraisal in even if the second comes in a million higher unless you can prove error in the first by negligence. Trust me, it’s not easy.

Groucho Marx sang something like this in one of the Marx Brothers films, no?

Phil aka Tere1071

If you're a seller bothered by someone posting comps that make your post look bad, you deserve to get called out.

Yep, seems like we have a lot of sellers among us. Reminds me of the first time that I went on BST when I joined the board. I priced things way too low in a fear of not offending the royalty on this board. One guy buys a card from me for a very below market fair price. He then comes back to me on PM and tells me that the card was diamond cut - but in an effort not to ruin my reputation on the board in the case that he outs me (even though there was a large picture of the 58 Mantlet card that he could make me a fair judgement on), he tells me that I n=eed to refund $25 - half of the very fair $50 price that many people came on and asked for - but I honored the price to him because he was he first one to ask - and I refund him. Even though I told him to tear the card in half and I would send him $50, he told me that it was for his PC and he was just a bit offended that the card was not as described. I am sure that he would be quick to share comps with me on a $400 or $500 card. But because I didn't want to get a reputation as a bad seller on this site, I sent him a paypal for $25. So, let's make sure that every dealer and flipper on this site gets the absolute benefit of the doubt - lest we out someone for trying to get rid of some cards yet, I think his name was something like MLBtraderumors. You can go ahead and out me for a card that was fairly shared and if you thought it was a diamond cut, then you should not have bought it. But sure, let's go ahead and make sure that everyone is taken advantage by the sharps. I have tried to be a good citizen on this board. I know that I overpay when I buy and sell at a loss when I sell - but that guy tried to take advantage of me. SO, if there are any rules in BST that keep that sort of behavior from happening, then count me in on it. Does it protect a buyer in the case that it is an outright lie on the comps? Ok, well good for the buyer. Too many people have been taking advantage of too many people here - starting with the guy who was going to out me for selling him a diamond cut 58 mantle for $50 in 2014 and asking for $25 back - what a loser. Next time, I will insist that you tear the card in two and I will send you back $50 plus shipping. I am sure that I can buy and sell you and if you think that you getting an extra $25 from me makes you a winner then good for you. By the way - I am not shipping to Canada and I am glad that you couldn't weasel and extra $10 out of the price of my 48 Bowman Berra. If you would like to respond personally, then good for you. I would be happy to settle this face to face. But, your threat of outing me for selling you a diamond cut 58 Mantle with perfect images - you already got your $25 back and I will be just fine.

I've never understood why there is a written or unwritten rule of not allowing people to comment. The only reason I have found that sellers do not want this is so they can inflate prices and/or hide information and do not want to be questioned.

Any comment should be easily defensible/explained by a seller or you should not be selling. What are you so afraid of?

I have sold cards before on FB and if someone comments, I just explain- "I am pricing this for X, yes it is 10% above comps. I look at the VCP sales and my card is clearly better because of X,Y,X.. thus that is my price. feel free to make an offer"

tru this

Staying the Same
 

In case anyone didn't surmise the end result of this thread. The BST rule of no interference is staying in place. As the RULES state, if there is any fraud or factually incorrect information in a BST thread, it can still be posted about. Just like before.
I think it would be a shitshow if we allowed the interference we are speaking of, and I don't want to babysit the BST 24 hours a day.

and a card
.

Agree and thanks Leon.

No, but that's why YOU need to look into things like proper pricing. Unless you're volunteering to be the BST police.

I know enough about cars to get a feel for if the stated mileage is probably a bit "off" plus there's Carfax...Or I just don't care, one I owned was surprisingly listed as 217,000 on the title, but the odometer didn't work. At that point it's not like it mattered.

who would buy a house without an inspection? Maybe a flipper who knew what he was doing? We had an inspection and there were very few things pointed out that I didn't already know, and they were trivial. And yes, we had asbestos, and I knew that before the inspection. Plus the roof hasn't been replaced ever. But this type of slate can go 200 years or more....

If you can't spot trimming maybe buy commons until you can?

Amazingly, there are even laws against making fraudulent misrepresentations in commercial negotiations. Since the 1700s. Imagine that!

We bought the house in 2009 or 2010
 

It was after the "appraisal reform". As mentioned in my post, the only reason there were 2 appraisals, I submitted applications with 2 different lenders. Each did their own appraisal. These were supposed "professionals". The price of the house was $535K. The $420K appraisal was a joke - I was very well versed with the market at the time and expected a 480-520 appraisal. The 420 was the appraiser used by a bank with whom I had a relationship for 20+ years. The 520 was from a recommended mortgage broker who I never even met. The bank ended up apologizing and refunding all my application fees. Just saying - anytime subjectivity is involved - grossly different opinions/outcomes are possible.

As much as the grading companies and many collectors would love it to be as objective and easy as an 8 is an 8 is an 8, it is just not reality.

easy fix
 

Seller just has to put- 'Please note that in addition to the past sales I cited, there may be additional auctions that sold a similar card that may of been less or more than I cited within the same time frame'

Or how about a seller just puts a price? Whatever they want, 10x more than the going price or 10x less. When I go to a card show, all I want is the asking price from the dealer, not a justification of his price. If I have questions, I'll ask. As long as they don't misrepresent the card, we're good.

This makes perfect sense but can get out of hand. I would suppose the moderator would step in if that occurred.

On another note, if you are selling your house and the bank for the buyer says there are not enough comps to certify that your asking price is reasonable, wouldn't you either a) find all you could to support your asking price ahead of time, or b) request the opportunity to prove them wrong? Generally speaking, you are looking for what benefits you and not the buyer. The buyer has the option to back out (if the contract allows) if they do not like the results, or accept your hard work looking for comps and request a review or go to another bank.

It has been said "caveat emptor" and that is true so therefore buyers should do their homework and be sure of what they are buying. To allow a group of others to interject their "thoughts" when they disagree what the asking price is seems inappropriate and should not be the norm. Again, it is said, the value is what the one willing to purchase believes what the value is, or is willing to accept what is asked because they want it for reasons unknown.

After reading a lot of good comments, there is a strong/good reason to not allow comps:

Comp was based on a card of the same grade. However, as indicated in other threads, an 8 isn't an 8 isn't an 8. The comps used may be for stellar examples of the card while the card being sold may be one of those 8-ish cards that should probably be a 6 or 7. Maybe the centering on the comps were perfect which led to a higher overall sale price. Even if the comp was for a 4, there are nice 4s and some ugly 4s (and we've all seen that before).

Comp was based on a different time frame when the irrational exuberance was in abundance.

Not my call.

A lot of people are missing (purposely ignoring?) the basic question being asked. Should some INTERFERENCE be allowed? It has nothing to do with sc*mbags trying to screw over people. That is rightfully called out by everyone all the time, as it should always be. It's about people messing with someone's FT/FS posts just to be an ass. That's what opening this metaphorical door will lead to. Case in point, some contrarian will probably jump in to argue that my use of the word 'metaphorical' here was improper.

Can o' frickin' worms!!!

IMHO, require LTB or WTB in BST titles. WTTF also OK. Keeps it simple. I click a post w/o WTB or LTB, I GTFO PDQ. Finally, just keep the sales posts simple with good clear images; otherwise TLDR.

What do you think a poll would show about requiring WTB, LTB, WTTF, in thread titles?

Even if it is more want it, than not, it would have to be managed :cool:

the one that throws me is NFT (not for trade), I read that as non fungible token sometimes.

.

Personally feel that if acceptable for members to post current market valuation data or information to another member's B/S/T post, then it should be perfectly acceptable for members to "out" auctions.

I realize "outing" behavior is very unpopular among members and that many might not see any relationship between the question posed by Leon here and "outing". But IMHO both behaviors are related.

That said, am I one to intentionally out auctions? No !!!

As someone who has never sold anything on this website I agree with this 100%

I think this is it, a seller has a card and it's theirs to try to sell it at any price they want just as the buyer can accept it at a price they want. If either is too far off of what the true value is most likely a deal won't be made. With comps I see it as people will use VCP if it's in their favor or cherry pick a sale or use eBay comps or go last 4 sales which happens to have the 4th sale as an abnormality. Just put a price and buyer can vet it.

Oh, I don't really care, I was just trying to toss in as many acronyms as I could.

OR

Potential buyers could be smart enough to know that on their own.

Seems like a case of good old fashioned "don't fix what's not broke", thanx Leon.

And a "card"

For me, it's not only don't fix what isn't broken, but also, if it's not a large improvement, it usually shouldn't be done. :) Who likes change?
and every rule has to be managed, so I still believe in fewer are better, or I would have to work more.

It was a valid subject to discuss.

and another card



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