SGC is Setting Land Speed Records
 

Sent 6 cards to SGC on July 7. Got them back this morning (July 15). An 8 day turn-a-round is fantastic. Plus, I thought the grades were accurate.

I just got an order back today 9 days total time from door to door.

Unbelievable!
 

June 21 submission, shipped back to me July 1st.

10 days! Mind boggling!!

:)

So is mine. However, having slabs of a defunct grading company won't be worth anything in terms of accuracy. See CSA , GAI, GEM, etc. I am sure these were "accurate" at the time.

Sorry -- I am huge SGC user/supporter but 2-day turnarounds is no way a good thing in the long term.

PSA is getting a lot of business that may have been SGC’s with the $18 per card special this month.

Sgc
 

To Oscar Stanage- whoa, hold on there! GAI, GEM, CSA were "accurate"?
No, that's just wrong, and an odd thing for an SGC supporter to say. The
opposite was and is the case. SGCs legitimacy as an actual grader isn't an
issue, a key difference with those listed above...

To be clear, I don't care what acronym the business uses as long as the
job is done right. I hope CSG /HGA take off, for example. I know there are a
LOT of folks who bank on PSA being held in high regard; however, their
current place on top is not guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination.
This is why I trust a company that tends to get it right. I guess you could
say it's a "gamble", but then again so is throwing all in with PSA...

Original topic- my SGC submission sits at around 10 business days. The
shipment has been noted as received, no grades yet.

Trent King

SGC fast returns
 

Just got my submission back from SGC. Left for SGC on July 5 and at my home
July 29. Very fast, holders look great. Seems the "who can be harder on
vintage?" contest is still in full swing, though. I'm sending tobacco only to SGC
next, as a test for how they treat that era. Trent King

An Example ?
 

. Trent ;..Can you share the pain and show us an undergraded example of the new grading standards ? Thanks.

..

Sgc
 

Hi Mike- If I can figure out how to do it, I will. Seems like PSA/SGC are being
brutally tough on very slight flaws. Let me see what I can do...Trent King

My grades just popped from my latest submission from sgc. Was 7 days to grade a normal submission, super fast

Everyone is focusing on how fast they are grading. I never agree with Trent but he raises the key issue I have raised--the accuracy of their grading. Who cares if you get it back quickly or faster than XYZ grading if the card is 2 grades too low.

Trent's experience has been mine, consistently, with SGC. I prefer them to PSA but simply cannot keep getting hammered on the grades one sub after another. In low grade they seem to get it right...5 and lower but they are seeing shit that is simply not there on better condition cards.

Granted even a great scan is not as reliable as having a card in hand, but I am seeing countless cards from both PSA and SGC that look 1-2 grades low even if one allows that old school grading has tightened up. Against that backdrop, being gleeful about grading speed seems unwarranted.

Sgc
 

Gentlemen- to be clear, the vast majority of cards I buy are already slabbed.
Therefore, "speed" is not commonly an issue, it's the grading. It's
my experience that SGC is the more consistent grader than PSA, a topic
separate from speed of submissions. Currently I would say people know SGC
will be strict on vintage consistently, whereas PSA will be more "all over the
map". The topic in this thread has been speed, so I addressed that topic
first. Given the choice of waiting 6 months plus for cards whose grades are
up in the air, or a month for those I now know will be tight, I'll take the
month every time...

I'll also observe that my most recent submission was all vintage, and was
basically a test case. There is no question SGC is being far more exacting on
vintage than in previous years. Why? You tell me, I'd like to know:) In the
meantime I'll keep doing 90% of my buys as I have been- previously
slabbed cards.

The cards I am submitting next are all tobacco, where (in my opinion) SGC
clearly grades more accurately and has done so for quite some time. I'm
curious to see a) turnaround time per this post's topic and b) if SGC is
tightening up on tobacco too. I have an idea what grade each card should
bring and am eager to see if SGC agrees/is close. I think my tobacco
"self grades" will line up closely with SGCs slabbed grades, certainly more
than my vintage examples. We shall see... Trent King

I respect that opinion and your choice. I guess TAT to me is not that critical. While I love the SGC holder for me it is more about the ROI when/if I go to sell. I much prefer to have an under graded PSA card to sell than an under graded SGC card.

I would be interested in hearing your experience with the T cards, if you do not mind updating us.

Sgc
 

Lorewalker- yes, I'll do my best to update. I expect to submit in the very
near future. It'll be a couple T206 and an E101- no rares or HOF, this is just
a test run. I apparently have a better sense of how tobacco will grade than
vintage, so we will see how that plays out this time. Trent King

Learned this cardinal rule when I first started working with businesses 40=50 years ago, especially those providing services.

FAST - ACCURATE - CHEAP

Pick two!

And the truth in that statement still hasn't changed till this day, and likely never will.

Best of luck!

Bob I would take 1 out of 3 and be thrilled. The bar has been lowered.

It seems that SGC hits all three and PSA in zero for three.:D

Yikes!

Wow! 10 days. West Coast to East Coast & back! Including mail delivery.

I wonder how much of CSG's business is accounted for by the PWCC partnership?

That is a huge decline for SGC. Due to the PSA price reduction?

I can't help but wonder if an SGC price drop is coming.. (on their grading services, I mean)

I would personally like to see SGC's re-holder fee reduced. It would seem to be much less work to re-holder a card, than to grade one. Yet there is a $30 fee for both services at the base level. I thought the $10 re-holder fee they charged in the past was fair.

It has to be coming. Their turnaround times in the past few months have been extremely fast. I've been sitting on a pile of cards for well over a year now, just waiting for the inevitable drop in demand for grading. My guess is that the next price drop will be in the $15-20 range, in which case I'll still be waiting.

What would really be telling and extremely more informational is if we could get a breakdown on those graded card numbers by the various TPGs. For example, modern sports cards, vintage/pre-war sports cards, TGC cards, etc. I think if they broke those numbers out it could possibly tell a different story.

PSA is probably 90 percent modern or more.

That's why I mentioned it. It could end up showing one TPG is not going up, or down, across the board, and only in certain categories of cards. Having that info would be more telling and informative than just a gross total number of graded cards.

The fallacy of composition?

In any case I cannot imagine they can be leading in any category with numbers like that. I honestly really enjoy the SGC product but those numbers are catastrophic.

With their history of work they should be in 2nd, during the PSA hold they had every opportunity on earth to advance their footprint in modern and have apparently failed miserably. People were submitting and the listings had grown for modern sgc on eBay. Leadership should be analyzing where these marketing failures fall and make changes.

I am hoping this is a blip as the sample size is so small and is related to the PSA pricing changes and they remedy immediately. A trend like that, if it continues, is a very poor sign of health.

Surely, PSA's advantage is a combination of factors. First-mover advantage certainly helps, plus the registry, and having slabs that don't look like they were bought from the dollar store all play a role. The registry is huge though. It creates dual demand which creates pricing separation from SGC on widely collected sets like 33 Goudey, 52-56 Topps, 48 Leaf, Cracker Jacks, T206s, etc. All the key cards in these sets sell for significant premiums over SGC solely because of the added set collector pressure on the market. This has a trickle-down effect on other sectors of the market as newcomers.

I'm really interested in how CSG does in the future though. IMO, they are doing just about everything right. Their slabs are so much better than everyone else's, their new flips are nice, and their grading scale is accurate and consistent in my experience.

SGC is in a tough spot though. Their problem is almost entirely the slab itself. They would need a complete redesign in order to gain market share in modern cards and with younger collectors. There's a reason the kids all refer them as "dollar store slabs". They can't really just up and change it now. Or rather they can't change it for vintage. I suppose they could try to come up with a new design and only use those new slabs on cards from 1980+ or something like that, while still keeping the tux for vintage stuff. Maybe that's their best chance? But I don't know if that would work either.

Personally, I like the tux look. But I definitely understand why others don't. But I do dislike how unnecessarily bulky they feel, and I don't like the fact that they create awkward storage problems.

I have done all my grading with SGC, and even steered toward buying SGC when possible. However, the size of the slabs is definitely an issue. With almost 200 graded cards, I am now probably going to pivot to PSA.
This was a very bad decision not to go with thinner, sleeker slabs when they did the re-design.

SGC grading is super fast
 

To anyone who cares (I know the target audience is small)-

On August 1, I submitted a small tobacco group to SGC as a test to see if
there are being as hard on those as vintage, and for turnaround time. The
cards arrive tomorrow. The details:

1) T206 Doc Adkins- I guessed a 2, it's coming back a 2. Dead on.

2) E101 Bill Bergen- I guessed 1.5, it's coming back 1.5. Dead on.

3) T206 Harry McIntyre- I guessed 5, it's coming back "A" so there's
something they found that I didn't. Bummer but I'm certainly not
infallible.

4) Total turnaround time 26 days, mailbox to mailbox.

It looks like they don't crucify tobacco like vintage, so much of my
buys will be slabbed in the future (as it's been for awhile). For what
it is worth:)

Trent King

Thanks for the follow up, Trent. My experience has been on the lower grade cards that actually show obvious wear, flaws, etc that they are spot on. It is on vintage cards that appear NM or better I see them landing in 5s and 6s. If it were a small number I would chalk it up to a small wrinkle, etc but the volume of cards I have been able to pick up and examine inside and outside the holder, simply makes no sense the cards are ending up beaten down like this. In many cases they are 1 or 2 grades higher than cards with fully rounded corners, wrinkles, stains or other obvious flaws.

Hey PSA is doing the same thing right now.

SGC grading is super fast
 

Lorewalker- you are welcome. My faith in SGC with prewar remains strong.
You are spot on re: vintage. It's bizarre and, frankly, ridiculous for the 2
main TPGs to continue this "flaw fest", specifically directed at one era. I'm
holding magnificent, raw 1976 Topps HOFers that I wouldn't dream
of submitting to anyone right now. The idea of some nerd finding a 1/16
inch bump on the reverse and dinging the grade 2 full points, doesn't sit
well with me. Both companies need to unscrew themselves in that arena-
before I submit again, at least.

Trent King

Could not agree with you more, Trent. Spot on. Dunno what is going on with them but I have more than 1,000 vintage mid to high grade stars and high grade commons 1930s to 1960s to submit but they will sit in my safe until they relent. Not interested in seeing NM cards in EX holders.

Chase