Disney isn’t going anywhere


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Why, because there was nothing else right around the IX Center in Cleveland to draw your attention and money, so you had to spend all your time and money at the show? I would actually think that is exactly what most all the dealers at the National would want.

There is the Rock and Roll HOF and Museum, the League Park field/museum where the Naps used to play and is the site of the first ever (unofficial) all-star game held as a benefit for Addie Joss' widow and family, the Canton Football HOF is only about an hour's drive away as well. Along with an actual national park only about a 15 minute drive away. The Indians/Guardians play in the city (as do the Browns and Cavaliers), and there are several minor league teams that play in the area as well. Casino gambling and other downtown Cleveland sites and amenities, such as restaurants and some gorgeous historic architecture, can be easily reached by taking the rapid transit from the airport. And that includes the Playhouse Square theatre district, which just happens to be the largest performing arts center in the US, outside of New York city. And of course, the airport is literally right next to the IX Center, which logistically is super accessible, and also another point favoring Cleveland for visitors.

Case in point, when I went to the very first Cleveland National back in the 90's, I was getting a lot of baseballs autographed. Was standing in front of Sandy Koufax to get two baseballs signed, and to make small talk, asked him how he liked coming to Cleveland. He actually stopped signing, and looked up at me for a moment with a reflective look on his face, and then said he didn't really know. He continued that a car picked him up at the airport and drove him right over to the show, and when his signing session was done, a car would take him right back to the airport so he'd board his flight back home. Kind of shrugged his shoulders and said he really wasn't going to see anything of the city to tell. I told him that's funny, because that's basically exactly what Bill Mazeroski had said. To which he got an excited look on his face and blurted out, "Maz is here?". I told him yeah, he was on the other side of the autograph pavilion. So, with a happy smile on his face he thanked me, and said he had to be sure to go find him before he left to say hi. He said no one told him who all was going to be there signing at the show. Finished signing for me, and gave me a big smile and a resounding handshake.

So there actually may be an awful lot more to see and do in Cleveland than you can imagine, you just have to get off your duff and go do something. And the ease and convenience of getting celebrity guests in and out of the show, along with accessibility to dealers and "reasonable" costs for setting up, are likely important contributing factors as well. Calling Cleveland and Atlantic City "cheap" seems a tad inappropriate, especially when you're comparing them to other big cities that may have a tendency to be way overpriced. Never forget the National is a business venture, first and foremost, so operating costs for the show and dealers will always be a primary concern. But a lot of naysayers are happy to complain about the venues, because the effort and work, along with the direct costs of setting up and paying for everything, aren't really their concern, are they? It is real easy to complain about something you're not responsible for.

How do you propose to explain to some dealers there is no room for them at one of these smaller venues then, or that their table space is going to be cut. And how do you pick and choose such decisions among the dealers without ticking anyone off?

And as for the multiple location idea for the show's venue, that can be a logistics nightmare. Instead of just having one or two doors to watch, each different location is now going to require more people to watch who comes and goes. And more people = more costs. And what about dealers who want to be in only the main area, and not buried in some smaller, off-site venue no one really wants to go to. And that's just off the top of my head.

I've only been to one National and it was Cleveland in 2018 because I could stay with family and save the cost of a hotel. And Cleveland is a great town. My wife and I have talked about, when we are ready to stop dealing with the farm, retiring to one of the neighborhoods near downtown like Ohio City or Tremont. Ohio City in particular is a great place to visit with all sorts of restaurants and microbreweries. And for folks who like amusement parks, Cedar Point is just an hour away.

As far as alternate locations, I have been to three of the Dallas shows in recent years and I thought they were well organized. I would have thought, contra Rich, that they could probably put on a good National show. But, what about Houston? I wouldn't want to live there, but the TriStar show seems to do fairly well.

Hahaha, yeah right sure they are.

And the city of San Francisco (similar in acreage to WDW) is sick of fog, so they are seriosly thinking about moving to Nevada.

Ohio City is very cool. Close by the famous Westside Market, which is also where Great Lakes Brewery is headquartered and has a restaurant/bar. And there is another great little eating establishment in the heart of the very residential area of Ohio City called Heck's Cafe, which also happens to be maybe 100 feet down the street from John Heisman's birthplace.

I am going to go with the unpopular opinion here: I like the Cleveland show, sort of the way you like the weird cousin you visit with at a family event--not exactly someone you'd pal around with all the time, but interesting every year or so. As long as you understand that you are going to be in a car every day to and from the venue, and in a car any time you want to get a decent meal. The airport is easy to get through, the hotel aren't walkable to the show but some are pretty close, and once you resign yourself to a drive, you can find some really good places to eat. Last time a group of us had a couple of really good dinners in town. We just had to drive there. Good ice cream too...if that makes a difference.

As for Vegas, I've been to a number of bar association events there in the summer months, and have gone there on trips myself. Yeah, it is hot outside, but everything is available and room prices are really good. Plus, the airport is world class.

LOL. Disney will never relocate.

Adam - You used to hate the National in Cleveland. What changed your mind ?

Driving. Being from LA it is a treat for me to go a place where I do not need a car, so I hate having to rent a car and deal with it, but last time I decided to go with it and had a good time. Getting away from the IX Center is critical, as is not using the bathrooms there after 10:00 a.m. (worst place to drop a deuce this side of TJ). Still, Rosemont is light years better.

Huge difference is there's little traffic in and around Cleveland.

That's true but in Rosemont I can skip the car entirely.

People running the National want to maximize attendance, maximize sales, maximize publicity, and maximize profit. If there were better places to have it from their point of view I can't imagine what their incentive would be to ignore them.

Absolutely correct! But figured being from the LA area, traffic was a big reason you didn't like driving.

It sounds like there won’t be a change of venue until a National (or likely, a few Nationals) is a flop. In this crazy market, it could be a while.

Chicago is the best location all things considered. Easy to get to, good event space, good amenities.

Cleveland is pretty easy to get to, and the site is pretty good. It's the lack of amenities in and around the site that is the primary issue.

Atlantic City is a major hassle to get to, but the site is pretty good and the amenities are good. Being that close to New York I suspect is actually what keeps it in the mix.

I heard good things about Baltimore, although it's not as easy to get to as Chicago/Cleveland. However, I seem to recall there were some site issues that ultimately dropped it out of the future mix.

I went to the National in Anaheim, it was a really good show from my perspective. However, I do think cost, including cost of the amenities (hotels specifically) creates some issue there because of the Disney proximity.

I'd certainly be willing to do Dallas, easy to get to and pretty good amenities.
Houston is easy to get to and tons of great amenities.
I'd be willing to try Kansas City.
Phoenix could easily handle this, but it would be lung burning hot that time of year.
Vegas could easily handle this, I've never heard a good reason why The National is the only convention that can't seem to make it work - and the gambling argument is dumb.
Atlanta would very likely work.
Orlando probably could work, although it possibly has some similar Anaheim type issues.
Nashville is too small, it's somewhat of a pain to get to.
San Diego works for Comic Con, seems like it could work for this? But the non-show stuff I'm sure is pretty expensive.
What about Denver?

At the end of the day, unless things changed for cities to submit "bids", I think the committee just sticks with what works. There is no incentive to change the rotation unless something falls apart (like when Cleveland's site shut down). Although, the "market" has changed pretty dramatically over the past few years and I imagine attendance would be bananas wherever you put it.

Traffic is an annoyance to be sure but actually, I just do not like driving at all, so whenever I have to drive everywhere it is a hassle. Sometimes you do see the most interesting things, though, when you drive around LA:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...usters%201.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...usters%202.jpg

My office is a few minutes from Disney, Warner Brothers and Universal. I was driving home one evening and saw that ahead of me in traffic. Must've been out for a spin from Universal.

That is cool Adam.

This topic is discussed annually on this forum and has never had an impact. Carry on.

Exactly it’s not going anywhere we all know, Chicago is getting it...NJ AC I think is going to be a afterthought soon. We could call it the National in the Midwest Chicago with Occasional Cleveland :-)

Yeh, Disney is not moving. There is only one way Disney would be gone if they went bankrupt:eek:

Rich,

Appreciate the response.

For future Nationals, how does the board select? Does the board use a marketing company to do the legwork of logistics and finding a convention site? If not, would they consider it?

This post convinced me to take the 4 hour drive from Toronto to visit Cleveland this summer.

Nice old thread.....Mike Berkus (RIP) Explaining the National locations selection process, a little bit...(there is even a Bruces sighting)
Post # 26

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=114661

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It is about time the Bruces get their membership status reinstated to 'member' from 'guest'. They have done a good job refraining from making vile and demeaning posts for many years now.

Brian...my vile and demeaning posts shall never be squelched, at least until I too reach the great beyond (insert evil laughter here).

Nationals
 

I went to a few Nationals, in the 1980-90s. The one in Anaheim was massive! What a turnout! I remember one in Arlington, TX where the turnout was huge and the room was overwhelmed. If the National doesn't come to TX, CA or FL soon, I would expect a "competitor national" will emerge. If the demand exists, then the market will provide an alternative. The market is hot and it can now support more than one big show per year.

2nd you on liking Cleveland ^

My wife dragged me in a cab 45 minutes outside Cleveland to Vermillion to go to a fancy restaurant on the water. Little town was super cool and we ended up having a great dinner and walk around near the lake. Don't remember much of what I purchased that National, but I do remember all of the Vermillion experience.

CA NATL ? Excerpt from 3/8/22 re CA CRIME STATS
 

WILL NEVER HAPPEN until the state figures this out. If two of the largest tourist areas in the state (SF and SM) are this unsafe, why would any major convention come here?

According to FBI crime statistics assembled and analyzed by Safewise, a website for safety consultation, Santa Monica is one of the least safe cities in California.

This report was released on March 8, along with reports for many other states, which uses the data of the numbers of violent and property crimes that were reported by cities and towns to the FBI and computes the rates of crimes per 1000 residents in each municipal area.

Santa Monica’s rate is six violent crimes and 42.6 property crimes per 1,000 residents. This places the city at number 224 in the list of 230 municipalities. This places Santa Monica just below San Francisco. The only other cities that have a higher average rate are Compton at 225, Richmond at 226, Stockton at 227, and Oakland at 230, which are all in Northern California. In Southern California, Compton is at 225 and San Bernardino is at 229.

Out of curiosity, where were Chicago, Cleveland, and Atlantic City on that list, assuming they were included as well?

Nice to see rampant ignorance is still in the air. 🙄

Enough with the ignorant clown comments.

The NHRA might have a problem with that name.

Not even close to an analogy. DeSantis' ill-conceived push ending self-government for Disney is going to have an awful impact on not only Disney but local communities, businesses and taxpayers alike.
DeSantis introduced and successfully passed legislation dissolving Disney's Reedy Creek Improvement District effective in 2023, which allowed WDW to pay for and operate its municipal services privately, thereby saving the state of Florida and its taxpayers BILLIONS of dollars.
Taxpayers have filed suit claiming that DeSantis has infringed on their rights by passing the bill which would force the local governments of Osceola and Orange counties to take on at least $1-2 BILLION of Disney's bond debt and increase funding of emergency and municipal services. The population of these two counties is 1.7 million people.
Walt Disney is Florida's largest employer and companies who previously saw the state as "business friendly" may change their minds now that DeSantis has directed at Disney such 'wrath.'

You can laugh all you want and say Disney will never leave Florida but Disney is not closing the door on the possibility, according to many reports from insiders as reported by Newsweek and the Washington Post.

Take your politics and shove it up your *SS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are a real class act.

Umm, might want to open an atlas. Santa Monica is in a different county than Anaheim and 42 miles away. You are doing the equivalent of citing crime stats from Baltimore to prove a point about Washington DC (actually, they are closer). Anaheim's crime stats are right about average with the rest of the country. Atlantic City's crime rate is higher than most of the country and it has one of the highest murder rates. So we have that going for us this summer, which is nice.

We won't have a west coast show because none of the dealers based in the east and who have the most influence on the show's organizers want to hump their stuff over the Rockies and through Death Valley in July in the family minivan.

It's a self-sustaining feedback loop.

Did I read something about not missing shows being a way of keeping one's place year after year? If I'm not mis-remembering that detail, then it seems like they could loosen those requirements. I mean, they're fond of bragging that the next year has already sold out during the present year's show.

Well, with Cleveland, it would be a new building since they closed the one that the national was held and removed the Ferris wheel.

No, same building, they're just getting rid of the ferris wheel.

FYI - The ferris wheel was there for roughly 30+ or so years as part of the annual IX Indoor Amusement Park that went on inside the building. It stopped with the Covid pandemic starting in 2020. There is talk of bringing the amusement park back, starting in 2023, but for now the ferris wheel is to be removed as part of renovations being made to the building.

They should replace it with a batting arcade.

Not a bad idea.......and actually quite feasible. The room at the IX Center is immense, and way bigger than any other venue I'm aware of that has ever hosted the National. Anyone who ever attended the National while in Cleveland may remember that the wall opposite to the wall along which all the restaurant/food stands are situated isn't a wall at all, it is a curtain. That is because it simply divides the floor of the IX Center so attendees don't see all the unused space. There should be more than enough room to bring in the equipment needed to set up batting cages if they so desired, and they could likely put in a softball hitting cage/area beside it as well.

In fact, if they wanted to, there is no telling how much bigger and how many more dealers they could easily accommodate at a Cleveland based National if they really wanted to expand it, and that's not even counting the lower floor levels. I think the problem is though, once you do that you can't automatically have all the dealers come back to the following year's National if held anywhere else......there isn't enough room. LOL