The email was sent by eBay.

"The eBay spokeswoman told SC Daily that those auctions were being taken down and all active listings were in the process of being removed. All of PWCC’s Buy it Now listings had been removed as of Tuesday afternoon."

This won't bring prices down a lick. Everyone with half a brain is not surprised with shilling in their eBay auctions. It's been a given for some time. Cost of doing business.
If certain unnamed AHs at the top of the pyramid selling $500,000 rookie refractor cards came tumbling down and people were walked out the front door in handcuffs. . .well, that would be a huge deal and would be newsworthy and meaningful. This will be another fart in the breeze.

90% of the folks who have done business with them on eBay will continue on a different platform.

As some guy once said, stuff trumps everything.

The eBay customer service rep told me it cannot be real as eBay does not "out" sellers or bidders in a mass email.

I avoided clicking the link but did go through eBay's regular webpage to get someone from customer service to call me back. Took about ~35 minutes.

Read post #36 in regard to my 1st point. Although I guess they did not mention confirming the email, its certainly implied based on the conversation.

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No way ebay is doing this for "integrity". There has to be a back story for them to part ways with a client of that size. The only way today's large corporations turn away a money stream like that is if there's probability that they could lose more money by keeping it. Principles be damned. Execs would let Jeffrey Ebstein and Michael Jackson run the day cares in their office buildings if it helped their bottom line enough lol

Additionally, I don't recall seeing anyone confirm they received the message in their eBay account.

I've only seen reports of receiving the info via email.

If anyone has gotten the message [B]in their eBay account[B], please chime in.

USA Today article is 2019. Lichtman is no longer PWCCs attorney

Wow, I stand corrected. You'd think Brent would have learned his lesson from a couple of years ago when he hired Jeff. How stupid can you be?

I did receive the e-mail outside of ebay but not in my ebay inbox, that seems suspect to me too.

EBAY IS CYA themselves, that'ts it.

I think doing any business to avoid ebay fees can get you suspended. If they refer customers to their web site to avoid fees etc. This could be reason enough to be suspended. Maybe they have enough customers now to avoid ebay altogether.

What's in the message header data? That should indicate where the message was sent from.

This is the post that makes it seem that someone got confirmation from Ebay, but in reading it sounds like it was from some time ago and not today.

Wouldn't you need the prices to be public enough that it raises the price of every subsequent auction though? That's the beauty of doing your business on a platform like eBay. Not saying people don't get their pricing lines from other sources (like major auction houses), but it's eBay that is the most common reference for commonly sold cards, right?

Jim Nonkes: I spoke with a rep today as the email had a link that linked to eBay’s call back feature. Not sure if she knows what she was talking about but, from my perspective, she seemed to know about what I was referring to and said they are removing them.

If it is a fake, then it is a pretty big coincidence that all of the pwcc_vault listings are being systematically removed as we speak. Over 2,500 in the last 20 minutes and still dropping steadily.

That is not true about the BIN listings.

There are still 44,000 PWCC bin listings up from their vault account. I clicked on about twenty of them (varied from typical 1948 to 1955 cards), and only two of those listings were no good anymore. My guess is that maybe those two were from people panicking and removing their item from the vault.

Also, I bought one card from them this year. Late June. And have gotten no e-mail or ebay message about this.

The amount of misinformation being spread about this rumor is staggering.

I got no email from Ebay. Can someone tell me who the sender of that email is??? That is one way to tell if it is a spoof or not.

i also received no email and have purchased from them in recent past.

True.

Most (all?) email client readers have a means for inspecting the SMTP email headers. For example, with Microsoft's Outlook mail reader if one opens the message and then chooses "Properties" from the "File" pulldown menu you'll have the opportunity to view the "Internet headers". If someone can do so, or similar using some other email client reader, and cut and paste those headers here someone can decipher the path the message took and where the origin was...

It is true. See how many there are now. They are dropping at a consistent rate of around 120 per minute. If this rate continues, they should all be gone by around 7:30 PM PST tonight.

1:25 PM PST: 46,424 listings
1:35 PM PST: 45,185
1:45 PM PST: 43,976
1:55 PM PST: 42,733 and dropping

I wonder if this news made Probstien sit up in his chair?

The BIN lists via the vault are coming down. Go to their store, click refresh a few times…the # will change

4:50pm 43264 listings
4:51pm 42232 listings

This isn’t people taking their listings down. Maybe its ebay…maybe its PWCC but they’re disappearing.

sure seems curious that some people that claim to have spoken to ebay told them this message did not originate from them...while others say the oposite?

Someone's lying?

This is where the email was sent from ebay@reply5.ebay.com

Jim Nonkes: I definitely spoke with a rep who seemed to know what I was talking about. I could see another rep not having a clue though.

Yeah I see that too, but the claim was "all had been removed", not "in the process".

All we can do is see if they all disappear. It does look possible, but I wouldn't want to assume anything until you see it

meant to replay to someone, fixing it

Casey, who is the "sender" of the email???? Like the phyiscal email address it came from?

Nope I am not lying that they said it was not their email. However, this was just a service Rep who called me back (I did not click the link in the email I went straight to eBay's site in the Help section as I was unsure if it was a real email or not - it took them ~35 min to call me back). She said eBay would not out a member (buyer or seller) in a mass email. That being said, she had not heard about anything so was just reacting to what I told her I received. Hope that helps.

the straw that broke the camel's back?
 

pwcc starts doing their own auctions outside of ebay. ebay boots them off the platform a short time later. coincidence? if you are ebay do you want a vendor using your platform to build a huge business and then use the brand name they built on your platform to compete with you? the timing of the shill bidding claim seems arbitrary without that context. there may be other factors going on outside of this but i would think competing against ebay is at least the straw that broke the camel's back.

A friend of mine just called and talked to his PWCC concierge, who confirmed that this is real.

ebay(at)reply5.ebay.com

This.....it makes no sense. Sounds more like a disgruntled card collector with an axe to grind. I had some experience with some of those on the PSA boards many years ago. They are out there.

Deleted post since I'm not sure how those email headers work.

:):):):):):):):):)

PWCC listings are being removed in chronological order - from newest to oldest listing. Anyone can run this check and see. Click on any new listing and it will show up as "no longer available." Refresh and the last 100 or so listings will disappear. This is definitely happening. Cannot speak to authenticity of underlying email.

https://www.ebay.com/str/pwccvault?m...&_sop=10&rt=nc

misread header data, ignore me.

My friend received the email and called eBay. He was told that if he purchased something in the last 30 days he could return it and "if I was bidding on something now don't pay for it because it'll be cancelled". Not sure why they wouldn't just cancel the auctions right away but this is what he was told by eBay.

That's me Scott.

Two things:

1. I can't believe how many collectors here buy things from these scum merchants.
2. If they truly become 'vanished,' what's going to fill up all the space dedicated to screaming about them every day on net54???

I edited my post to remove misinformation.

this is absolutely shocking

ok not really but glad they got outed :)

From the article:

"She did confirm the legitimacy of the notice sent to eBay users via email."

So, yes, Rich did confirmation from Ebay.

1. and openly admit it:confused:
2. Dont worry we will find something

I didn't get the email but I can proudly say I don't ever remember buying anything from PWWC.

Since I have seen a serious lack of cards in this thread. Here is my favorite Tim Carroll cut card art work.

Now PWCC seems to be proactively closing listings out too!! Darn it!!! I was trying to get that Bird rookie PSA 9 for $50k!

Yup. It drops with every refresh.

I guess if you're gonn a buy something from the vault, you'd best do so quickly before it disappears.
:rolleyes:

I called eBay earlier today and just got this email:

Hello Kevin ,

Thanks for reaching out to Concierge Support regarding the email that you received about the purchases from seller pwcc_auctions and

pwcc_vault. We are more than happy to help clarify what has happened.

The seller is no longer allowed to sell on eBay. When something like that happens we remove all listings and bids. If the items show as being shipped you are still covered if you do not get the items. You can open a case just like you normally would if the item does not arrive after the estimated delivery date.

So as a high value buyer who has made a large purchase with the seller, we are notifying you due to the seller no longer being active on eBay. For security and privacy reasons, I am not able to tell you why the seller’s listing was removed or why the seller is no longer an active eBay seller. The email we sent is meant to reinforce our commitment to create a fair and trusted marketplace for all members. No action is required on your part.

However, like I stated If there is any issues with the items that have already been purchased and you need some help with buyer protection cases please let us know and we will be here for you.

Please feel free to reach out to us with any questions or concerns you may have. Thanks again for allowing the Concierge Support Team the opportunity to assist you.

Thank you,

Clark

eBay Concierge Support

Some of us can only aspire to have such blanket moral superiority and ironclad discipline.

Maybe someday!

No idea. I relayed what I was told. Someone in the eBay customer service department making a mistake when they spoke to me would not surprise me though.

Guess ebay has built up enough business over the past 18 months that they can now do w/o PWCC's $150M/yr in sales. Ebay is clearly in the driver's seat to dump one of their largest "clients" like this....their stock closed at over $75 yesterday, but was down 3% today. My guess is that it will rebound tomorrow. Ebay's stock price in March 2020 was around $30.

My guess is that this was not a move ebay could afford to make just 15 months ago.

Interesting timing, just got duplicate emails from Goldin offering free lifetime "vault" submissions if consigning to them.

Got it also

Interesting timing and trying to grow their vault business.

Could be a double whammy for PWCC

It's only in cards, life is much different.:D

Ya think? LOL

pwcc email response
 

I just received this email from PWCC:
PWCC Marketplace <cs@pwccmarketplace.com>


PWCC was shocked to see eBay’s email today stating that unidentified “individuals associated with” PWCC engaged in “shill bidding.” To PWCC’s knowledge, its employees have never engaged in any behavior that violates eBay’s agreements and policies. PWCC goes to great lengths to ensure that its employees follow eBay’s rules and PWCC employees do not have access to eBay’s bidding records or information.

PWCC is considering all available legal options in response to eBay’s defamatory press release and its bad-faith action to restrict PWCC’s privileges on eBay. PWCC has only just learned of these allegations and eBay has refused to share any details supporting its allegations. Despite eBay’s unwillingness to explain its claims, PWCC will continue to conduct its own internal review to ensure that its employees have not violated eBay’s rules.

PWCC is proud of the work it has done over the years to improve eBay’s own processes and to ensure that the platform is one that users can trust. These efforts went well beyond the measures that eBay takes to ensure legitimate auction processes. For example, PWCC worked tirelessly with eBay for over 10 years to remove the bid retraction option for buyers, eliminate forced return policies for sellers, and reduce the Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) window from 30 days to 3.

While PWCC became the world’s premier site for the sale of trading cards using eBay’s platform, in recent months, eBay’s increasingly competing interests prompted PWCC to begin the process of moving on. Today’s unilateral action by eBay simply hastens PWCC’s move to its new platform.

The new platform will be live on the PWCC website very soon. The August Premier Auction will still close on August 21st and the September Premier Auction is scheduled to launch on September 1st. PWCC is excited about the future, looks forward to launching all marketplaces on its new platform, and is confident in the benefits that will bring to buyers and sellers.

This is starting to feel like when Jerry McGuire got fired.

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SMTP mail grew up as a store-and-forward technology. A message can be handed from one system to another to another prior to reaching its destination. Back in the day the internet was much less reliable and so there needed to be a mechanism for delivering mail when a system was "down". A mail server may have other systems set up as proxies for it to receive mail should it be unavailable to accept it. Nowadays there can be numerous other reasons beyond system outages why one might want to push mail to some other system to be "stored" prior to it being forwarded on its way. Anyway, each system that handles a message signs it by leaving a record in the message's headers. So...

the headers originally posted include the following "interesting" received headers that show the path the message took from sender to mailbox:


Hop #1 - Received: from r145.reply5.ebay.com (r145.reply5.ebay.com [172.82.216.145])
Origin: Received: from [34.217.185.60] ([34.217.185.60:54049] helo=r140.reply5.ebay.com)

The system with address 34.217.185.60 belongs to Amazon's AWS cloud and has been assigned the name ec2-34-217-185-60.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com.

So it would seem that either ebay is using AWS and relaying through its own server or is horribly misconfigured and permitting others to use its system as an open email relay. I'll guess that ebay is actually using AWS and that this message really did originate with ebay on that AWS system. fwiw...

eBay
 

Quote ) As one of the world’s largest marketplaces, eBay has policies in place to protect our buyers and sellers. eBay was founded on trust, and we work every day to ensure a fair and positive experience for the entire eBay community.
Recently, it was determined that individuals associated with a trading card seller, PWCC, have engaged in “shill bidding,” which is prohibited on eBay. As a result, eBay has restricted PWCC’s selling privileges and listings, effective today. eBay’s policies and standards were designed to ensure a trusted marketplace where our community can transact with confidence. If we determine that a buyer or seller is not acting in good faith, eBay takes this seriously and takes action. Our customer service team will work directly with anyone who has a question about a recent PWCC transaction [link].

eBay is the destination for buying and selling trading cards - built over 25 years with our passionate community of collectors and sellers, as partners, on that journey. Trust is the cornerstone of eBay, which is why we felt it was important to share this information with our community. We assure you that eBay will continue to take actions to deliver on our commitment. (Quote)

This statement from eBay is hilarious. It is coming from a company that allows tens of thousands of fake cards to be listed and sold, and from a company that allows bidders to have 100's of bid retractions, and from a company that allows scammers to cheat buyers and sellers of sports cards.

Shutting down one company is a step in the right direction, but they have a long way to go if they want to regain our trust.

If you go to check on PWCC's upcoming September auctions, the page is now blank - returns no results.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/curr...auction_id=168

This could get interesting. Could Ebay have learned of PWCC possibly starting/moving to a different site and preemptively reacted?

Here's what we have so far...

"PWCC is being felled!!!"
"Wait, they are???"
"Yes, PWCC is being felled!!!"
"Are you sure? Seems to be some confusion about whether or not they will topple."
"Heard it first hand, PWCC is being felled!!!"
"But I heard first hand that PWCC is still standing!!!"

Attachment 474314

I have no sympathies for PWCC, but that is most likely what happened. Ebay has a long history of cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

How dare you sell on another platform!

Oh, we're still making millions off you?

well.................how dare you sell on another platform!

Ebay doesn't give a rat's ass about bid shilling, auction interference, or any number of other things... and they never have. They've openly encouraged it without actually saying so out loud.

They're simply the jilted bride in this scenario, and being proactive and vindictive about it. Sadly, there's no good guys to root for here. :(

It will be nice to see PWCC gone. They have tarnished the business with their suspected shilling.

Maybe, eBay can start paying attention to the other Sellers who have followed the rules and have been paying their fees for years.

We can get back to a nice honest business.

I just received an email from PWCC confirming the ebay suspension, so the action taken by ebay is true.

Not gone at all. Brentsy were moving to their own platform anyhow this will just accelerate things. As I said on the other forum (I think it was there) they are as resilient as a hydra. It's no secret what I think of them, but I would not make the mistake of underestimating them.

Atleast they will be gone from eBay.

True that.

Teflon Don.


Can the VCP Gentleman please remove his sales from his platform ??!

‘When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled.’

Although that idiom has a different connotation, I'm wondering if this move will finally be the first step in an overall easing of (skyrocketing) prices. Without their shilled prices clogging up the "Auction Prices Realized" database, perhaps 'real' sales will now define the price points.

LOL for some cards that would mean deleting half the prices.

Unlike spaghetti sauce, the story isn't what is in there. The story is what is missing. Like, perhaps "contractors" and "consignors."

My question is what about the items that are currently on ebay and as of now still have still close to 18,000 listed for auction with their current auction/bids ending in a little over 3 days.

IF they selling privileges and listings are restricted effective today what happens to all this listings/auction items?

any ideas

Could it be that Ebay didn't want to antagonize potentially legit bidders/buyers that had already put bids in on so many auctions and so decided to just let them end naturally? I doubt PWCC would not complete any such auction sales either as that just makes them look bad to those buyers also.

No way
 

If this was just about removing PWCC because they have been migrating to their own platform there is NO WAY Ebay opens a legal can of worms by accusing them of shilling - they could have just quietly parted ways. Really interested to see this unfold further.

And still people ADMIT they bid and consign to these sheisters

I cant feel bad when, not if, they get burned

Agreed, but don't you think not being allowed on Ebay won't have some serious negative effect to PWCC's brand and sales going forward?

Unless, it has often been said on this forum how many times that a poster wished someone would set up a new online sales platform to compete, or at least offer a better alternative to, Ebay. Could that possibly be the intent/end goal that PWCC may have been looking into in possibly starting their own new online platform? If someone was going to do it, it would make sense for them to already have a strong market presence and sales, which PWCC sure seems to have, despite the pronounced lack of love they normally get on this forum.

I think this was clearly a case of ebay knowing that PWCC was about to launch their own auction site, so they wanted to put a black mark on them before they completely got all the way out the door.

I've bought from PWCC before, I've gotten great deals, and I've also had auctions where it felt like I got screwed. That always seemed like the cost of doing business.

To think that ebay just found info about PWCC shill bidding is hilarious though. They clearly know that PWCC and probstein auctions are big targets for shill bidding and other shenanigans. I think the timing of it was just to take a final shot at PWCC before they packed up their things and left.

I have told this story many times before but, just to illustrate how little Ebay cares about anything resembling dishonest selling:

Years ago, they put a fake (OBVIOUSLY fake) Peyton Manning jersey on the cover of their holiday catalog to tout the low average price that Peyton Manning jerseys could be purchased for on Ebay. They are well aware of the "problem" and choose to do nothing. In fact, if you search for any top player from any sport, at least 80% of the jerseys on the site - TODAY - will be fake. Just went and searched for Peyton Manning jerseys in size 52 and, yep, the vast majority are fake.

But Ebay *doesn't care*. Because they get their money and 90% of the time, the buyers don't complain. So "everybody" wins. Unless, of course, you're the guy trying to sell a legit Peyton Manning jersey and can't afford to let it go for $45.