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PSA reimbursement question
If PSA reimburses do they reimburse based off of a calculated current value or do they attempt to configure a value of the card at the time it was originally graded?
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Wont value be based on SMR, lol?
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Best of luck!
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If AJ was made aware in Aug 2020 that the card he bought in July 2020 was altered why did he happen to wait until now to explore a buy back from PSA?
AJ had recourse with the eBay seller to return the card but he clearly opted not to. The card was good enough for him then when it was worth 17500 but not now when it is worth 45K? Am I missing something? |
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So if I would've said "ok deal, 55k to you" you would've said no sale, j/k, this is not really for sale?
Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk |
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The Plot Thickens....... |
I don't think there's a major problem asking for offers to determine value of the Jackie.
There's a huuuuge difference between what people 'think' is it's value, based on things as varied as what THEY would feel comfortable paying theoretically if they had the money, to what they last saw one sell at (could be 6 months previous), to even personal discrimination based on the issue itself or it's aesthetics. Getting hard offers from buyers willing to commit their funds to a real purchase is a series of true numbers you can work from realistically and refer to. Of course, with every offer the OP should have been contacting the interested party to let them know why he had created the BST thread, to thank them for their interest and to ask if they would not bomb the exercise for a pre-determined time so he could gather enough evidence. No idea if the OP did this though. He should have then started a fresh thread to discuss why he made the Sale thread and to encourage discussion of his situation. Being called to do so by others sure makes him seem less hobby pure and creates the idea he might have actually been willing to let go of his problem to someone else for the right number. |
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His original listing says $55,000. It doesn't say "or BO", nowhere does it even mention offers. |
My two cents - first off it's sad that the hobby needs to deal with this situation and will have to continue to do so thanks to those who are willing (and greedy enough) to alter cards for profit.
Second, when it comes to this board, I would have reached out to Leon to clear this experiment by him before posting. It's his board, he's done an excellent job of running it and he deserves the respect of a heads-up on something like this. |
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Far too invested in the hobby to burn someone else with a possibly trimmed card. I also don't blame the guy who sold it to me on ebay. I'm sure he had no idea. Quote:
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End of the day, the plan worked. I was able to get real market rate offers having placed card on multiple platforms in order to show PSA. And as a bonus generated some talk about this situation so I can leverage with PSA. |
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Yes I had to tell both private parties (one at $40k and the other at $45k) the situation. Both people had no idea net54 exists nor blowout. I gave them both links to the blowout thread showing the evidence. |
So if someone on Net54 had replied "I'll take it at 55k" - what would you have done?
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So if someone on Net54 had replied and agreed to the 55k offer - what would have happened....? |
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Hey Hey quick update! Just came in from Steve Sloan. Will update the thread with progress
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Things moving now. Just got off phone with Jackie Curiel at PSA after getting an email from her. She has issued a pre-paid Fedex label to send the card in for a management review.
We talked about the process and what happens if they deem the card altered and my options after. She said they would figure out a fair market price based on the data tool on the PSA website. I asked for management to come up with a market price in writing so we're on the same page before I send in the card. This is where my ebay offers and third party offers come into play. She's going to get that figure and circle back with me on Monday. No way I'm sending this card in before fair value is established. stay tuned... edited to add: Has anyone gone through this process? What should I be thinking about? |
No dog in the fight, but whenever I see language like this in a guarantee I think you are 100% correct to get the amount in writing ahead of time. "The current market value is determined by PSA, based in part on Sports Market Report and SMR Online values and/or recent prices realized from the marketplace. PSA will be the sole determiner of the current market value." [emphasis added https://www.psacard.com/about/financialguarantee] If you don't agree with their determination of value, not sure what your options would be though.
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And not that this would necessarily impact your decision process, but I do wonder what they would do with the card if returned to them and a refund is issued... |
Side Note is there paper lose on top left of his hat?? Yellow Chunk?
That bugs the crap out of me, aside from being trimmed what is that? Curious what that is? |
back and forth with Jackie at PSA over email. They are refusing to negotiate a market price before I send in the card. Reached out again directly to Steve to see if I can resolve. more to come...
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Why not just drop it off, it's 45 minutes away.
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Psa
Wouldn’t you be happy be getting back what you paid or slightly more than you paid for the card originally to end all this drama?
Also, Jackie at Psa is fantastic. |
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Let’s face it guys would he have bought this card if it wasn’t in a PSA holder? I would guess no he bought it because it was in a PSA holder we all know the market resale value of a PSA holder slabbed card. To me PSA hast to back this up and pay you a fair market value, I believe they will. Keep the faith and let’s see if PSA makes this right I think that they will.
One thing is troubling...If this card was trying to be sold and the seller knew that it had issues I don’t really care for that again though I have no idea what anyone knew what anyone didn’t know but if the card is deemed altered PSA has to make you right. The argument I would pound home If you have to battle this out would be I bought the card because it was in a PSA holder the market knows it’s strong resale value growth and appreciation when you buy a card graded in there slab you buy it with that assurance that the card is authentic unaltered and proper. I believe the real battle is going to be what is a fair market value for this card? May go to an arbiter I don’t know ��*♂️ It always comes down to the money, on both ends is the juice worth the squeeze ? |
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If he'd been compensated last summer he could've then gotten an unaltered Jackie and realized the same profit. |
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Reading this thread just makes me feel so happy that I picked up my PSA 4 Leaf Jackie RIGHT BEFORE the pandemic. I remember the seller wanted like five to a thousand dollars more, and instead of arguing with him, I just gave him the money. I remember him telling me "listen, this card is going to be worth ten grand one day - you hear me?" I thought to myself "yeah ... and that will probably be in ten years!" Instead, it happened in like ten weeks! LOL!
Anyhow, anyone who chops up a Leaf Jackie should have his d*ck chopped off instead! |
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They juuuust make it inside size tolerances and the edges aren't 'fresh'. Someone long ago, a kid, a collector looking for it to fit inside a display, made a decision to slice and dice but age has since hidden some of that obvious alteration. It's kind of like the new video replay rules we see in sports. If you can't be sure it's been trimmed, then it's unfair to guess that it was in all likelihood but not without doubt. Of course this doesn't apply necessarily to the Jackie or some other obvious trimmed cards like below, but sometimes what's posted and postulated to be trimmed may pass the standard inspections TPG's use to make their call. https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...gefront(1).JPG |
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I think that ninety-nine percent of trimmed cards were done for the purpose of deceiving a grader and to get a higher grade. I also think that majority of these Leafs were chopped up by the same person. He also chopped up majority of the 51' and 53' Parkhurst hockey cards as well. He has been doing this for a long time. Nice Satch. |
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Ok, I'll get back on the pecker re-sizing bandwagon.:mad: |
Don't forget T206. Every time I see a skinny sharp cornered T206 I wonder. All in how many altered cards in holders? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of Thousands?
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Thank god some un-altered exist....
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Except for tape! lol
Yes Virginia, there is a non trimming Santa Clause out there! Especially like how the tape bleeds into and right up to the right edge. Peace, Mike :cool: Attachment 444663 PS If this was missing the tape, I could retire.......but I kinda like it! :) |
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Seriously, that is one buldgingly full bordered Leaf card!!!:eek: Colors are also super nice and such good registration. I can't see ever wanting to let it go either. |
well I hope this works out, but I think there is zero chance of payout on this card.
management review is going to conclude the grade is accurate with no alteration, and that will close the book on it. if they pay out on this one, they are opening the door to every single other card the BO team has discovered, which would bankrupt the company. Nat and the investment team aren't stupid, they knew this liability was out there and I'm sure there were dozens of lawyers that convinced everyone there was plenty of leeway to never pay on the promise. I really do hope I'm wrong, because AJ has some great cards and has always been a good guy in dealing with me. but alas, this "guarantee" has proven to not be worth much historically. don't get cheated... |
Thanks Dan!
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Your is super cool too! Not many of this card even exist. I do love the centering, registration, borders, colors, rarity, and yes, I do love that tape! I feel strongly that if this card was not originally taped to something that the conditon would be far from what it is now! Thanks! Mike |
Discipline
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Cutting you a check plus returning the card to you in an Authentic Altered Slab seems like the easy thing to do.
I think they will. Are you ready to battle it out with attorney ? Or just Take what they offer you? |
California Business & Professions Code section 17500: "It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or association, or any employee thereof with intent directly or indirectly to ... perform services ... or to induce the public to enter into any obligation relating thereto, to make or disseminate ...over the Internet, any statement, ... those services ... which is untrue or misleading, and which is known, or which by the exercise of reasonable care should be known, to be untrue or misleading... Any violation of the provisions of this section is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, or by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or by both that imprisonment and fine."
Seems to me that a guarantee that the company never fulfills because it says "nu-uh" to every request to fulfill it is ripe for legal action. |
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PSA could determine without having the card that it might be altered and if AJ refuses to send it in because he cannot get them to commit to it being trimmed or a buy back price, PSA will deactivate the cert pending a review of the card. AJ has already said he would not sell the card to anyone given the card's history but having a card with a deactivated cert would certainly add another layer of complexity to the situation. |
It's not objectively unreasonable for PSA to want the card back in its possession before making a determination. You're going to lose that one. IMO you're already in not so great a position on account of waiting months after the card was outed and you knew it before taking action. What leverage do you think holding onto the card gives you anyhow if you aren't going to sell it under any circumstances because it's hacked, I am not seeing it.
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I'm holding out hope that my email to Steve will allow us a dialogue to put a fair market price on the card that gives me confidence to send it in. I really don't want to get lawyers involved at this point and think we can work it out before it gets to that point. If I don't hear from Steve, I'll reach out to Nat and see if that gets me further. I'm assuming Nat (and Steve for that matter) will want to resolve fairly and amicably. All I know is the longer they wait, the potentially more expensive it gets. A PSA 7 just sold last night for $400,000+ |
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PSA has and will deactivate cert numbers for cards they don't have in hand. They will modify set info on cards they've logged incorrectly in their database without the card in hand (the flip stays wrong in those instances until an owner sends it in). PSA is also quick on the trigger to ban people who make demands of them, so if you're a submitter or have an account to track your collection, don't be surprised if either get deleted once this one is "cleared."
The fact that you're making your case in the open makes it very likely they eliminate you from their customer pool, IMO. |
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IMO...anything that PSA has done in the past should be thrown out the window.
They're under new ownership...who seem to have aspirations of blowing up the hobby like never seen before. They need to make this...and other obvious errors right...and move on. IMO...this is what will happen. |
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One card at a time. In an open and honest way.
Crossing fingers |
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Yes Jackie Leaf has surged since I bought the card last summer, but so have lots of other cards. I've got to potentially get this re-holdered in an A holder and fight over not getting screwed on the fair market price. The leaf lottery? No thanks, don't want that "good luck". |
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