Do you mark Indian? I didn't know that was a choice

Yankee is a derogatory term used to describe people from the US outside of this country.

At the rate we are going, how long will it be before possession of items containing these “offensive” words become illegal? Sounds crazy but what we’re doing now would have sounded crazy 20 years ago.

Ironic that white liberals think they need to tell Native Americans what's best for them. That's wokest part of all.

We should probably get rid of the Padres name to appease the atheists too.

And while we're at it, let's rename another SoCal team...

The Los Angeles Agnostics of Anaheim

Or Saints.

Not exactly the same, but I'm a huge Notre Dame fan and of Irish descent. My mascot is literally a short, fighting mad, cartoon leprechaun with red hair(sometimes), donning the colors of the Republic of Ireland. I'm not affected negatively by it, but I don't suggest that everyone should feel that way. I would also survive if we simply became a clover. Ultimately, there's not going to be anyway to make everyone happy. My point was there's other proud recognition available to pull from for Cleveland that might encompass a larger crowd. It's not ever going to be the end of the world if a sports team changes it's name. There are more important issues at hand than sports names and mascots.

I know it may be hard to believe but there are almost no original names in sports. Even in the examples given, Ole Miss was known as the Flood until 1936. Time has a way of moving forward and after a while nobody even remembers there was a different name.

Lol! and the Providence Friars!
This silly discussion shows just how ridiculous this whole thing is.

Very true. But, that can be applied both to those who are annoyed with it, or those pushing desperately to change it. As previously pointed out, there are plenty of things to be frustrated, stressed, or even ill about in 2020. I believe a lot of the annoyance is that sports teams' names should be WAY down the list of priorities.

Perhaps people have too much time and pent up frustration from sitting at home and feel they "need to make a difference"?

If I call someone from France a Frenchman, it's fine. Oh, you hail from Sweden? You're a Swede. No problem. Down under? Hello, Aussie. But if I call someone from Mexico City a Mexican, the social justice d*bag warriors scream, "Racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Sure it all makes perfect sense.

Jeez, is this supposed to be Chief Wahoo or John Wayne Gacy?

I think this one has gone the full course. I'm guessing Leon will have this locked in the not-so-distant future.

As I have posted before, my hometown college in Mankato, Minnesota changed its nickname from Indians to Mavericks more than 40 years ago, and the University of Nebraska-Omaha did the same at around the same time. Stanford too. These types of changes have been mulled and made for generations now, and yet now we hear the same gripes about them being the wet dreams of so-called progressives. Now it's claimed to be part of a cancel culture and it is suggested as the product of some new wave of leftists. No one is "pushing desperately to change it", it has been a topic of change for decades.

Name change
 

I think this was mainly a company (owner's of the Cleveland Indians), deciding to do something that they thought would be good for their business. There had been no outcry recently about the name, it wasn't anything anybody had been talking about recently. It was just something the owners decided to do. Perhaps they felt it would be good public relations.
Of course we love sports, and we also love card collecting, but we often make it out to be something more important than it really is. Teams used to change names very often. It didn't used to be a big thing.
As Bob Dylan famously said "the times they are a changing".
My favorite saying is that "the only thing that never changes is that everything changes".
So, was I surprised to hear the name changed ? Yes. Is it a big deal to me ? No. I'm not an Cleveland Indian fan. If I were, I guess I would feel different.

The owners have decided to get rid of the offensive portion of their name. Their new name will now be:

Ohio Indians


*rimshot*

My local minor league team is the Spokane Indians. They have partnered with the actual Spokane tribe ("The Spokane Tribe of Indians" being the official name) and seek to honor the tribe with the team name, logos, and the stadium. The logo has "Spokane" written in Salish, for example. That's the right way to do things.

I think the problem with Cleveland is that they have a loooooooong history of, well, being racist with their team name, logos, and mascots. Yes, they dropped Chief Wahoo but the legacy of all the garbage is still there.

Personally, I think it's a wise decision of them to change. I don't consider this a sign of the apocalypse or even "bad" in any way. As baseball fans, we should all know that nearly every team has had a ton of nicknames through the years. What's one more?

A suggested name I heard from someone else: Cleveland Admirals, in honor of Cleveland native Admiral Isaac Kidd, who was killed at Pearl Harbor and awarded the Medal of Honor.

How about the "Cuyahoga Fire"?

Minority tyranny wins again. Whatever the left touches it destroys. Even sports.

Cleveland ? ? ? ? ?
 

Seriously, my advice to the owners is....re-name the team the Cleveland LAKERS....since the Stadium is situated next to Lake Erie.

Then, we can watch (and laugh) how the "politically correct" crowd struggles to change the name Lakers.....for they will try, as they
have no respect for anything traditional.
.

Yeah, give it a few years, then someone will feel offended that the Swinging Friar is a humiliation of a Catholic priest. We live in an age of hyper sensitivity and political correctness gone awry.

I feel that celebrating "Pirates" is a terrible thing to do because Pirates were thieves and murderers. Why do we as a society allow that to happen?

What about the KC Chiefs? Is that the next sports franchise name that is being targeted? Redskins - gone, Indians-gone. Chiefs can't be far behind.

Sorry about that mini-rant -

As I mentioned in my last post, this has been going on for 50 years. Get over it and stop whining.

I get very tired of the argument that’s this type of action is “woke” white people deciding what offends someone. I feel that this argument fails for two main reasons

1. It puts the burden on the aggrieved minority group to fight ever battle. These groups have enough burden and cannot be expected to fight every slight and injustice. These groups should not be expected to explain every insult and educate about ever wrong.

2. It misses the point that we as the majority group should be offended by the action. We may not have taken the original action but that doesn’t mean we should turn a blind eye to the wrong and not act. We should be embarrassed about what has been done and fix it. Let’s all stop pretending that Indian names were historically meant to honor in a real way. Most of these names were created on the teens- the thirties. They were not meant to honor real people struggling to prosper. They were put in place to recognize the image of the Indian as the noble savage, the cowboys and Indians view, the dime novel image. This is caricature not reality, and you can never honor with caricature. This was not a country respecting its native inhabitants. This was a country that was sending young Indian children to school to “save the man, kill the Indian. ” We tried to destroy their language and their culture. We did not take these actions but we need to stop misrepresenting what the actions really meant. I am not imposing offense on others, I am offended at what has been done in our name.

Cleveland Baseball Players

With an all time franchise low team batting avg of .225 last year that might be offensive to baseball players.

Except the stadium hasn't been next to Lake Erie for 25 years...

If you look and search deep enough with any topic or name of anything, you will find something that offends the 2020 generation. It doesn't have to even be sports related. It could be the name of a vehicle, or even the name of a power tool. Lately I find it's easier to just accept the fact that I'm wrong and they are right. Kinda like "the customer is always right" even when they are not. It's just more simple to agree lately, and move on and get things done. I know how to do many things. Sometimes these people come around needing something done. Sometimes my amnesia acts up and I forget how to do something. Simple rule in life. Be kind to each other, and others will be kind to you. I know this went a little off track from a team name change, but at some point you won't be able to say anything to anyone without the possibility of offending someone or someone just hearing what you said the wrong way because they are programmed to take everything as a negative remark.

I thought you were talking about USC. Their name might be offensive to people who don't practice safe sex.

How does this make the name "Indians" offensive?

You are way over-analyzing this, going back in history, finding grievances, and trying to say that now the very word "Indians" shouldn't be used. Do you want to cut it out of books too?

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised that no one on the board suggested "Cleveland Spiders"(in homage to the 1800s team of the same name).

But I'm sure that a group of arachnophobes would find it offensive.

The whole concept of baseball is personally offensive. I identify as a basketball.

Under his watch, USS Arizona's crew improperly stowed several thousand pounds of black powder outside of the magazine that detonated during the attack. Had Kidd lived, he likely would have been court-martialed.

All the sports teams should be named after animals. At least they don't complain. Not yet anyway

The only two teams to change their names were the Redskins and the Indians, two teams who have been at the center of controversy over their names for decades. I don't really see this knee jerk reaction to change everything and anything that you guys are talking about.

Maybe its been around for so many decades because there wasn't much controversy. But in 2020, its time to make a difference. Forget the people getting sick and hospitals running out of beds. We should worry about 100-year old baseball team names and pancake syrup. I dont think the perspective is necessarily wrong, but the timing is suspect.

Way to try and kill a passionate argument! :D

But what is sacrificed in changing the name? None of those grander things were affected by it.

I love #2. "I'm offended so you should be offended!".

Haven't they done the same for African Americans who were offended by names Europeans called them to let them know they were lesser of people in their eyes? What about Chinese or Japanese or LBGTQ? Why can't we treat each other with respect as equals?

They are not Indians. An Indian is a person from India.

Personally I* think changing the name of the Indians is a crock of sh!@. There is no way that is offensive to anyone unless they are looking to be offended. Always the victim, should be the motto for 2020.

And yet 40+ years ago teams began changing their team name from Indians to something else because no way that was offensive to anyone? Just seemed like something to do?

If I get called an American should I be offended? Sorry, it won't ever fly with me. If everyone would just get a job, as Judge Judy (my hero) says, all would be good. Instead you have everyone getting offended at anything because they have been taught to play the victim card. I think I should be offended that anyone disagrees with me :)>....

Or if not offended by that just give me a few minutes to find something else to be offended by. Crock of crap if you ask me.

There's a certain amount of power to be had if you can consistently move the goal posts. Societies always think they've finally go things figured out, only to have later generations gasp in abhorrence to their barbaric perspectives.

Fifty years from now, they'll be burning our cards in a pile due to these idols being womanizers, bigots', communists, capitalists, etc...

Hide your Ruths, hide your Hornsbys, hide your Cobbs.....they're coming for you!!!!!!!!

This line sounds like it came from a brainwashed millennial. American Indians refer to themselves as Indians...ok? It's not even offensive to THEM.

I think they should change the name of the state Indiana while they're at it.

I get offended every time I drive thru that state.

Mostly 'cuz of the odor.

That is what PETA is for!:D

If you read the statement from the team it will tell you exactly why the change was made and what the opinions of the stakeholders were:

“Hearing firsthand the stories and experiences of Native American people, we gained a deep understanding of how tribal communities feel about the team name and the detrimental effects it has on them,” team owner Paul Dolan said in a statement. “While Indians will always be a part of our history, it is time to move forward and work to unify our stakeholders and fans through a new name.”

This was the response from the National Congress of American Indians:

“Today’s announcement represents a monumental step forward in Indian Country’s decades-long effort to educate America about what respect for tribal nations, cultures, and communities entails, and how sports mascots like the ‘Indians’ prevent our fellow Americans from understanding and valuing who Native people are today, what makes us unique, and the many contributions we make to this country,”

Will the National Congress of American Indians be changing their name?

After all, Indians are from India.

That idea is not incorrect. Historically speaking, Columbus thought he was in India when he discovered what are now known as Native Americans. But it's really not an argument that is necessary to oppose.

If your name is Ed and I insist on calling you Dave, won't it rub you the wrong way?

Cleveland BBC (Baseball Club)

San Diego BBC

Kansas City FBC

That makes it pretty generic. Nothing to bitch about with those titles.

San Diego is named for a saint. That's religious and I'm offended. We should change it to South Los Angeles. Wait, that means angels!!! No, we need to fix that too.

I am a left-leaning moderate, so fall in the middle of the debates. I see both sides to the argument.

Though I can say the illiberal, ultra-woke, cancel culture far left is as obnoxious to me, and to many people I know left to me, as it is to anyone on the right. I am against it as much as anyone else. The right should know that they annoy most people on the left too. And, in fact, illiberal by definition is not liberal. Cancel culture and trying to stop freedom of expression is not liberalism.

My argument is it's up to the Indians, but that means it's really up to the Indians not some small vocal group of activists. As someone else said, I don't think the issue is political but about respect-- with respect being both a liberal and a conservative value.

Lots of comments about what Native Americans think, but I posted what Native American representative groups think.

In case the NCAI is not as well known as most other organizations, I thought I'd share how they describe themselves:

The National Congress of American Indians, founded in 1944, is the oldest, largest and most representative American Indian and Alaska Native organization serving the broad interests of tribal governments and communities.

Solid post.

+1

Tradition?

It was traditional to enslave black people for centuries. To subjugate women and minorities. To deny basic rights to groups that differ from the mainstream.

Just because it's a tradition doesn't mean it's OK and shouldn't be changed. Just because it's a tradition doesn't mean it isn't harmful to others, even if it's a tradition you are particularly fond of, and personally benefit from.

"America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time."

Looking forward to seeing what the change will be.

Onward to a better future!

Is it okay with you if Indians refer to themselves as Indians? Because many of them do, including in organizational names.

Or would you, in your enlightenment, also tell Native Americans that they should not refer to themselves as Indians?

I wish more people would go about their lives with a "live and let live" attitude, rather than a superior, "everybody has to change as I decree" attitude.

Agreed. So go about your life and let the Cleveland baseball team owner do the same.

And then name a baseball team the Daves.

Would people be offended if they renamed them the Cleveland Buckeyes?

They'd probably have to sort it out with the Ohio State Buckeyes.

I'm going to post the NCAI's response to the name change announcement one more time in case you didn't get a chance to read it above:

This was the response from the National Congress of American Indians:

“Today’s announcement represents a monumental step forward in Indian Country’s decades-long effort to educate America about what respect for tribal nations, cultures, and communities entails, and how sports mascots like the ‘Indians’ prevent our fellow Americans from understanding and valuing who Native people are today, what makes us unique, and the many contributions we make to this country,”

That should quell any general notions about the Native American response or preference.

I'm going to post the NCAI's description for their organization again as well:

The National Congress of American Indians, founded in 1944, is the oldest, largest and most representative American Indian and Alaska Native organization serving the broad interests of tribal governments and communities.

I'm amazed that so many here criticize Native Americans for being offended by Cleveland's nickname. Easy to pass judgement when it is the other guy.

Imagine if the Tigers changed their name to the Detroit Douchebags? Plenty of folks here would take it as a personal affront.

I like the idea of returning to Cleveland baseball legacy...

classy post

But don't think Boston should ever return to Bean Eaters.

Don't they know Indians are from India?

All right all right, from now on it`s the Cleveland Redskins. Problem solved !

Might there be anything else of interest there?

Chris,

Not particularly - just not cloaked in judgmental entitlement as some others I've read.

The fact some can use the name "Indian" without criticism for doing so, and some cannot.

If they take offense at Wahoo Sam, that's a whole different discussion.

Paul Dolan found enough that were offended by the name that he is changing his team's name.

Why is it the Indian name that gets you this riled up? Something as trivial as the name of a baseball club? Were you this upset when the Devil Rays changed their name? Hmm, something about that Indian name... See, if the Notre Dame Fightin' Irish changed their name tomorrow, most people wouldn't give a damn. They'd say sweet, the Fightin' Devil Rays... and life would go on.

Again, it's not the term "Indian" that's questionable to us. We've been referring to ourselves as Indians for years. It's the fact that we are not a mascot. It is not alright for you to dress up in Native gear, paint your faces yelling out war whoops to mock us. We are not fine with you putting offensive cartoon caricatures on your clothing and wearing it around demeaning our appearances. We've been fighting that battle for many years, so don't pin this on anyone else. This has been the Indian, Native American, American Indian agenda for many years ... have you been listening?. This is not what Native culture is, nor has it ever been that. Many Native cultures to this day are still fighting for basic survival. The simple fact that Native children are still seeing these depictions should make most people say, enough is enough. It's time for this shit to go.

When it comes down to it, it's really a questions of power. When minority groups rise up against the majority, the standard line is "I don't get why you are so offended, we've been doing it this way for years. Why are you playing the victim card? If we give you this, what are you going to ask for next." I'm calling bullshit. 2020 was a shitty year, but one thing it did do was get rid of those racist mascots.

Were you fine with the Redskins name? What other minority race would you be ok with this happening to? Please, fill in the blank for me... The Cleveland ___________

A very vocal minority of morons seems to rule this weak and quite often embarrassing country.

Holy crap, that's it!!! The Cleveland Native Americans!

Yes, but only for a couple more weeks

Eh, don't let facts get in the way of a good story :)

You completely missed the point of the statement.

This point seems obvious to some. To others, it's like you're speaking in Martian.

I do have a question for you, Tony: What's your take on the Spokane Indians team name?

Change it to the Spokane Native Americans

Give me a break