Here's a thought, though just had it so likely to be full of holes...

For a start, it could be outside. Open air, muuuuch safer - especially if done in concert with masks.
How, you might ask? Cardboard needs to be protected from the very least likely chance of rain....

I'm thinking in a place like Phoenix or Vegas.
In a venue set up under the already established protective canopies of....
The Parking Spot. Or similar. This image is of the one in Houston.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...ouston.jpg.png

Already fenced for the protection of cars.
They're low on business because of Covid and downturn in travel...

Or similar, as I said.
Open air, covered. That would do it, no?

I don't think it's a bad idea in general--probably because I was thinking about that too :) No way it could here in Phoenix in August though. We had more than 50 days of 110 or higher this year--smashing the old record by about 20 days. The first of August would be an oven, and Vegas wouldn't be much different.

Still, I've been to some small outdoor shows that went well, at least from the customers' perspective--I'd be curious to hear feedback from the dealers on this. Definitely something out of the routine, it might make for a nice change of pace. BTW, it doesn't have to be with an asphalt parking lot. It can be on the grass with portable tenting or canopies; again, though, it would require some different kinds of planning and contingency preparedness. Actually sounds like a real good time.

Hey NL, if you were thinking it too then it couldn't have been a terrible idea!:D

I agree re temperature, was actually imaging an opportunity to do the whole "East Coast AND West Coast" National shows through this configuration, perhaps with the West Coast one running in March at approx Spring Break time, and an East Coast one later in the year closer to standard calendar...but maybe first week August. That would keep it warm as possible for outdoors in lets say a Philly locale, but equally spectacular in Vegas/Phoenix/Houston during March....

I was just liking the ease of current setup of the parking lot so that dealers could have their merch brought practically (on wheels) into the facility, everything stays pretty clean, you hire 20 guards round the clock to sit at various points around the perimeter to protect everyone's tables day and night.
Some of my favourite festivals and and trade shows (mainly Art) have been outdoors, has an entirely different feel and mood.

Anyway, something to think about as it would definitely help in terms of health and safety for attendees.

I think its an interesting idea... like the Brimfield Fair in MA. One issue would be lodging. Any open field big enough to accommodate the show likely would be outside of a city, where lodging en masse might not exist. I do like the outside idea, though.

How about a HS or college football field? They’re privately owned so you wouldn’t have deal with a municipality and there’s usually several in or very close to major urban areas.

With all the collector unhappiness with the NSCC (event locations, new dealers can't get space, too much space given to corporates, etc.), I'm quite surprised that some enterprising show promoter hasn't already created a "Winter National" or a "Spring Training National" as a better alternative to the NSCC. I have little doubt such an event would be successful.

That's what I think every time I read the calls for the National to take place somewhere else. If there is demand for it, would like to see it happen.

The outdoor thing is a great idea but I think you'd have to go somewhere like Los Angeles for it because of the potential for rain in eastern and midwest cities. We are basically dry here from May through September.

Wind. Wind is the first thing that comes to mind when I think about an outdoor show. How annoying is it when your napkins get blown away while eating outside? You spend most of your meal trying to devise new ways of anchoring those suckers down, so they don't ride the breeze when you deign to take a bite of your cheeseburger.

My daydream always has it at a baseball field rather than football, in particular a moderate to high-grade minor league facility. Obviously the team would have to be out of town for several days to make it available, but given the shaky status of minor league baseball these days, who knows what might be available.

Just for grins, I checked the website of the St. Paul Saints, an independent team partly owned by comedian Bill Murray, who frequents their games (at least back in normal times). This facility and no doubt dozens of others can be found around the country, and offers itself as a venue for weddings, concerts, festivals, etc. FYI, the light rail can take you to the ballpark, to the Mall of America, both airport terminals and Target Field. Here, take a virtual tour.
http://chsfield.com/venue/virtual-tour
http://chsfield.com/venue/event-spac...erts-festivals

I thought about wind too, which is why I believe a mostly enclosed baseball stadium would provide a decent windbreak. As for rain, I thought about the canopies I see at Costco every now and then, which are not very expensive and are bought by a lot of tail-gaiters. These would not be of much help in a driving storm, but they would be great to shield at least some of the elements, and would be nice to have to keep the sun from beating down on the dealers all day. Surely there are more complex and effective coverings available if people give it some thought and planning.

A baseball stadium would also have great seating for those looking to take a load off, and concession stands should not be a problem. Depending on configuration, there could be grandstand overhangs providing some protection also, and who knows, maybe tables could be set up in the concourses. Also, many have meeting or gathering rooms that could handle, say, a net54 dinner :)

Val, while I too am a bit surprised no one else has tried (that we know of), I think one of the biggest hurdles is actually getting the corporate booths and autograph guests (tri-star) willing to put out a 2nd show. I don't see the motivation they would have to just drop the current show and, while you and I may not care, i don't think the national would be what it currently is without them.

Each table will be supplied with a rock. Problem solved.

I like this. I was thinking along the same lines as far as availability. There's got to be countless ballparks that would love to sign a big event contract right now, probably at a very favorable rate, too.

The ramp-up to putting on a major show is steep.

Even just running a local show is expensive and time-consuming. It isn't just decorating the barn and puttin' on a show. Minimally, if you assume a venue with its own supplies (tables, chairs, etc.) you have to locate and book the venue, secure insurance, plan marketing and execute, draft vendor contracts, secure required business licenses, get vendors and all required documents from them. The day of the show you have to make sure everything is good to go, arrange an orderly move-in and set-up, staff and run the show, then coordinate move-out and break-down, all of which is like herding cats. If you go for autograph guests or other special stuff you need to arrange, market and pay for that too. And you will bleed money for a while trying to get things going unless you have access to a venue at little or no cost.

Thanks Adam, you just shut this thread down for good with that dose of reality. LOL

So you don’t want a fish sandwich?

Ummm, no?

Don't get me wrong: running a show was great fun too, but it is a lot of work and if you are planning to do anything more ambitious than a small local show you really do need a lot of time and a hefty bankroll to devote to it. if I was retired, for example, and had some help to do it, and COVID was over with, I would definitely consider starting, running on a regular basis, and hopefully growing a small show. Last time round we (myself and two partners) broke even on our third (and last) show but by then we'd lost our collective stomach for doing more. Oh, also add the accounting and security to the work list.

I vote for Pittsburgh. It has one of the nicest stadiums in the country. Plus I only live 7 miles away from it [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s a Ladies Man quote. I knew it was a longshot :)

Just a random thought
 

This has nothing to do with the topic, but I remember some of the smaller shows back in the 1990's where we had to bring our own tables.

I've been to maybe half the Nationals in the last 10 years. Didn't make a single notable pickup; just a handful of cheaper items that I actually could have done without. Any sales I had could have been done outside of the National setting, so there's another strike against my ever returning.

The area of Cleveland surrounding the I-X isn't exactly a hopping place for things to do, so that won't be missed. It was a huge cut above going to Baltimore, with its weather just half a degree below hell. It was also wonderful to be able to drive right up and park at the I-X, both as a dealer and as someone walking in the front door. That will be sorely missed.

Prior to 10 years ago, I had my greatest National successes in Cleveland. After constant disappointments when the show was in other cities, I could always think positively about the next Cleveland National. That streak of success ended with the last colossally disappointing Cleveland show. After that, I decided I'm done with the convention altogether. How many years do I have to walk by the same dealers with the same inventories? And I'm paying for this privilege? It would be nice to see some new faces set up and maybe, just maybe, new material. Let me know when that happens; I gave up.

Is there usually a waitlist for tables at the National or do they more or less have a table for anyone willing to pay the fee?

It's almost impossible to get into as a dealer if you haven't already been doing it.

Hmmm....and what about demand? I know tables/booths are expensive, but anyone have any idea about how many would-be set-uppers there would be if there was availability? I know no one knows for sure, but is it a few...several...quite a few....a shit ton?

Varies by location, Conor, which is one reason to rotate the show across the whole USA. As I said above, one of the better things with the show when it moved around were the locals who turned up. There are definitely fewer card dealer tables offered than in the past. More corporate space and manufactured memorabilia/souvenir people.

As for what's at the show, yeah, definitely you will tend to see the same inventory from the more veteran dealers but there is also a ton of other stuff if you dig. I can only think of two shows (Chicago in 2008 and AC the last time) where I found nothing of note worth buying. Plus even the common stuff is available at such great volume and pricing that you can fill out mainstream sets and runs for a lot less than via eBay or otherwise. I know the last time out I ran across a big stack of cards from a vintage basketball set I was working and knocked off all but two of the cards I needed for a tiny fraction of what I would have paid online. It happens. And just so as not to keep anyone in suspense:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ize/img716.jpg

It was the 1971 Fleer Cocoa Puffs Harlem Globetrotters set, which I finished earlier this year.

Those cards are super cool.

Adam: That's great, but how much did these cards end up running you when you figure in time, travel, lodging and food/drink? I'm thinking you'd have saved money by buying them online at higher prices. Don't worry, I understand that's not your only reason for going!

I think most people can relate to your example. I constantly find myself in need of multiple copies of rather cheap commons for autograph purposes. Online, the cost adds up due to markup and often having to pay S&H to several sellers in order to acquire what is needed. At the National, I can knock off most of these needs all at once for much less...until I factor in how much that trip cost me! Sadly, all I found at my last National were commons such as these. And that sort of thing is the least of what I'm hoping to find. When you're having a successful show in other regards like in the distant past, finding a bunch of commons was just a nice added convenience. If that's the highlight of a faraway show, I'm done.

I've been to a few Nationals and I've only found a few items that I may not have found elsewhere, and I'm sure that I vastly overpaid for them if you factor in travel and other expenses of going to the show. But I just like being around and seeing all of the stuff, even items I'm not remotely interested in buying, just because I think it's so cool. The Big Show experience is fun in and of itself.

I don't think of it that way; the Natty trip is (was) my vacation. The cards are great but the evenings visiting with friends in the hotel bars are priceless.