got my 2nd moderna shot (@Krogers)
It all knotted up still.

Got the J&J shot on April 1. Clear sailing, in fact I felt a kind of strange low level euphoria for about 48 hours.

Just hope that all these vaccines live up to their advertised efficacy rates.

LOL, I was hungry as hell after both my Pfizer shots.

3rd day after my 2nd shot, I was telling my wife I felt better then I had in years. All my aches and pains and general malaise of normal life was gone. Of course by the 5th day I was feeling all my old man complaints again. :o

Got 2nd Pfizer this weekend. Zero side effects, as with the first.

Vaccine
 

Just not enough data, hopefully people wont transformation into a FLY type creature--I plan to wait for more scientific data.

I felt fine in the beginning. Then I felt strangely lethargic. Got really tired. The first one had the same effect plus headaches. All fine now.

J&J and if it wasn't for incredibly minor arm pain the next day I'd wonder if she actually stuck the needle in my arm.

Same, and I also think the other side of the story isn't talked about often enough nor do we ever hear from the doctors and other medical staff who have different opinions.
If I didn't know any better, I'd think they were being purposely silenced.

So far, 5,800 fully vaccinated people have caught COVID-19 anyway in U.S., CDC says.
About 5,800 people who have been vaccinated against coronavirus have become infected anyway, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tells CNN.

Some became seriously ill and 74 people died, the CDC said. It said 396 -- 7% -- of those who got infected after they were vaccinated required hospitalization.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...says-1.5388245

This is Monday's numbers. Which, along with Tuesday, are traditionally the lowest numbers of the week, because of weekend record keeping. Sneaking suspicion tells me this is at least 99% of people who haven't been fully vaccinated yet.

That's just conjecture though. ;)


http://site.pugilistica.com/Net54BST...1Numbersrs.png

Here's a sobering graph from a few months ago when very few, if anybody had been vaccinated yet and at least half the country wasn't taking this the slightest bit seriously, even if they had known, or known of people who had been taken by this.

I'm sorry, but there's not really "two sides to the story".


http://site.pugilistica.com/Net54BST...2021JanArs.png

Approximately 95 million people in the US have been vaccinated. The vaccine is known not to be 100% effective and I'm not sure there is a vaccine that is. Should be some expectation that it will not work for every last person who receives it. I wouldn't expect that to be a deterrent.

So many touting what's best for everyone....
try this, just worry about YOU, and let OTHERS decide what's best for THEM.

A complicated concept for some regulars on here apparently....

I don't understand the issue some have with those who choose not to get vaccinated. Perhaps they've never heard of the Tuskegee Experiment?

Speaking neutrally, I think the issue is that we've been told that people who refuse to be vaccinated -- if there are enough of them -- could prevent the achievement of so-called herd immunity. In other words, framed this way, an individual's choice affects more than the individual.

I doubt it would prevent the achievement of herd immunity, since this could be obtained in theory by everyone contracting the virus and becoming immune that way. But it could impact the way and time that herd immunity occurs. Specifically it could slow the spread and allow for more variations of the virus if it happens over a longer period of time (or not). Similar to the 'game of life', where either overconcentration or underpopulation could wipe out an organism. No masks/quarantining could end this much quicker with a faster but with a devastating spread. Slowing the spread could keep it around much longer but with less devastation (again, or not). The real problem is trying to determine the right balance to reduce or isolate the spread.

We don't have enough people presenting all sides in a neutral way, so your point is well appreciated.

I tend to agree. When the idea of "flattening the curve" came out, the one possible graph showed more deaths, but over a longer period of time to ease the burden on hospitals. So although it would have been devasting right away, it seems like it would less overall.

That "one possible graph" was for a scenario in which a vaccine is not available and millions upon millions die in this country alone over the next couple of years.

Herd-immunity through everybody getting the actual Covid virus, instead of just getting a vaccine that has an even moderate efficacy rate, is Anti-vaxxer madness.

The intersection of individual freedom and public health is inevitably going to be a battleground and perhaps more than ever before we're seeing that now.

Ever known anyone who contracted polio or smallpox lately?

Anybody die of the polio or smallpox vaccines lately?

Anyone die of the Covid vaccine lately?

Any medical intervention north of a Band Aid is going to involve some risk. That risk has to be assessed in the context of the potential benefit, both at an individual and societal level.

Agreed. So what's wrong with waiting until all possible risks have been discovered, and then one can make up their own mind if the benefits out weight the risks? After all, none of the vaccines are even FDA approved at this point.

How many people have died of Covid?

I think this bears repeating.

This is just a snap shot of 20 random days in January. People say they want more data, but then ignore it when it's given to them.

Are you really more afraid of the vaccine, then you are of actual, honest to goodness Covid?



http://site.pugilistica.com/Net54BST...2021JanArs.png

I am not judging anyone for their decision one way or the other.

Honest to goodness? Yes, I am. I'll turn 50 years old in just under 2 months. I haven't been sick in over 45 years (since I was 5 years old). I don't get the flu. I don't catch common colds. I don't even get as much as the sniffles. The last time I was at the doctor was in 1994 when I was required to take a physical to process out of the Army.

To be honest, I do get a flu shot every year and have for decades and maybe that has something to do with my good health, but I am much more afraid of a vaccination than I am of getting sick from Covid. And I've had 2 direct contact exposures where everyone else at the gathering came down with it...except me (and I was tested each time).

When it works well -- and of course in many individuals it doesn't -- the human immune system is a wonder to behold.

so in other words you are bruce willis from that terrible movie unbreakable with samuel jackson. pretty sweet. hope your good fortune continues.

Great question, Dave. How many "have actually" died of covid?

Heat attacks, heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, respiratory disease, neonatal conditions, diarrhoeal diseases and stroke death numbers are way down. Why is that?
""Covid deaths...??? In 2018 - 2019 in the us the "residual" death total was 744k and 758k. This is a category is used for non autopsy. Remarkable that in 2020 this number went down to 188k? These numbers are from the cdc check them out yourself, there are more"

Why is it I know more people that have died after getting the vaccine than I do those that died of covid?
Why is it, after those that get the vaccine, do they need to continue to wear masks, isolate, and social distance?
Why would I get a vaccine if I have to continue living my life like those that haven't had it, and especially since there is no actual proof that I have seen it actually does anything?
Like what was said above, I have, personally, a better survival rate not getting the vaccine than I do if I get one.

And also like I said before, if you want one, fill your boots, but trying to convince me by calling me and others anti-vaxxers no matter how hard you try with your Liberal shaming tactics, isn't going to work.

Here, watch this Bill Maher video, and don't worry, he attacks both sides equally.
https://youtu.be/Qp3gy_CLXho

...that went completely over your head, didn't it...

"Liberal Shaming Tactics?"

You're the one who just made it political, and you're not really interested in answers to any of your questions, so I'm just going to assume they're all rhetorical and not waste my time. You've already made up your mind. No amount of data or hand-wringing from my end will change that.

I didn't call anybody in this thread an anti-vaxxer. Earlier I used the term "anti-vaxxer nonsense" regarding a crazy theory espousing herd immunity through spreading the actual virus to the entire population rather then locking down or quarantining, or wearing masks. A theory that became obsolete the second a vaccine became available.

That said, are you an anti-vaxxer or not? You're espousing typical anti-vaxxer arguments and views, but don't want to be called an anti-vaxxer. You're certainly not a pro-vaxxer. Is neutral-vaxxer a more acceptable term for you? How about anti-covid-vaxxer? Is that specific enough?

I'll leave with an anecdote from my personal life:

Late Spring/Early Summer of last year I politely asked a couple of plumbers to put a mask on before they came in our house to give a quote. I explained that my wife had lost both her parents to Covid just weeks earlier, and was going to be a bit sensitive about the issue. We would even provide a mask for them, if they didn't have they're own.

You know what one of them did when I mentioned both my wife's parents had died of Covid? He rolled his eyes at me, spit in my driveway, lit a cigarette, and got back in his truck.....then his boss nonchalantly threw on a bandana, came in and looked at our sink, gave us a quote, and left after telling us he wouldn't do any job if he had to wear a mask.

I hate myself to this day for not kicking both of those guys in the ass and off of my property right away. I was so shocked and demoralized by the situation, I thought I had done something wrong. I thought I had to cow-tow and be polite to these assholes, because it would be impossible to find another plumber on short notice in our little town.

Turns out I found another company the very next day, who said they would wear a goddamn scuba outfit if I asked them to.

Shock, turned to shame, which turned to anger.

So, sorry. I decided I'm done being polite (or neutral) to people who don't give two craps about me, or mine, or others around them. Especially when they're so often, so very loud, and outspoken, and opinionated, and unpolite, about their own beliefs and freedoms.



Do you think these numbers from January were manufactured out of thin air?


http://site.pugilistica.com/Net54BST...2021JanArs.png

Assuming your "anti-vaxxer nonsense" was in regard to my post, I really don't think you understood what was being 'espoused'. It isn't a 'crazy theory' but a scientific one and one that works all the time. However in no way was I implying that it should be applied for Covid. While I wouldn't go as far to say 'liberal shaming tactics', you position bias does show in your response.

You do realize that according to the CDC's own website where they list the Covid related deaths, they are just that. Covid related. "Most death certificates (COVID-19 or otherwise) list more than one cause of death."
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisiona...9bhg-hcku/data

Not specifically to you, but in general:
People throw around the 'cold hard facts' about the deaths caused by Covid. But the same people constantly and conveniently ignore the non-death impact on everyone's lives. They talk about science and facts but ignore the science and facts of shortening lifespans of the non-death health impact, such as stress, suicide, etc. You can't harp on one and ignore the other. Likewise you can't use the non-death impact as an argument against masks/quarantine/shutdowns. The depth of the true 'cold hard facts' impact won't even begin to be known until well after this is over. If you truly want to understand the impact, you can't use number of deaths, but how many person-years were lost because of the virus or how we reacted to it. Which is really cold , but the only true measurement of the impact. Not just raw deaths.

And anecdotes are just that.

And for what it's worth, my first Covid shot didn't affect me any different than any other shot I've gotten. Assuming the microchip they implant with the shot doesn't cause any adverse side effects. :)

...about as much as my response went over yours...

I got my second shot yesterday.

As a general comment, not aimed at anybody in particular, according to the CDC there have been 569,771 deaths from covid in the US, and according to the interwebs there were 2,977 deaths on 9-11.

So, if 90% of the covid deaths were actually attributable to some other cause, then there has been the equivalent of a 9-11 event every 3 weeks. since last March.

Worldwide, according to the World Health Organization, there have been 3,128,962 deaths, and again, if 90% were attributable to something else, then there has been a 9-11 event twice every week for more than a year.

Congrats on the 2nd shot Doug.

World wide though right? Not in 2 buldings in downtown manhattan on one day?

Ted "Just making sure I have my facts accurately attributed to something that might make sense to someone somehow" Sherman

A US 9/11-like loss of life every three weeks.
A world-wide loss that size twice each week.

Seems pretty clear, maybe it's not a worthy number?

I get my second shot early next week.:)

Wow, you're right. People who went to work one day killed by terrorists, vs (an overwhelming majority of) people with comorbidities and at the end of their life span


People are people, some are just despicable enough to allude one loss of life to another in order to suit their own agenda or prove their point.


Good for you!

As opposed to those who are despicable enough to dismiss others' suffering in order to suit their own agenda??

Good for you!

PS: Pretty sure allude doesn't mean the same as compare or link, if that's what you were going for.

What an elegant way to say they were gonna die anyways.

You would prefer it sugar coated?

I always wonder if the crowd that thinks wearing a mask is the greatest affront to freedom since the Alien and Sedition Acts exhibit the same behavior when it is time to take their shoes off at the TSA checkpoint.

So you are opposed to things that kill a bunch of people in one location, but if they are spread out then it's ok?

I guess that means that you weren't happy that they crashed planes into buildings, but if they had instead randomly killed 2,977 people scattered all of over, you would have been ok with it?

Doug "just enjoying how you are ignoring the number of people who have died in one situation, but are all worked up about them in another" Goodman



PS - since my initial post 57,576 more people have died, if we again allow the conspiracy theorists and naysayers their 90% of mistaken / faked deaths, that still means that 2 more 9/11 events have happened (albeit scattered around the planet, so not nearly as meaningful as if they had been visiting two buildings in Manhattan).

The one good thing about these threads is that they let you know which side of the aisle the responding members stand.

"No point asking who's to blame
'cos if you're gonna die, if you're gonna die

If you're gonna die, die with your boots on
If you're gonna try, just stick around
Gonna cry, just move along
If you're gonna die, you're gonna die!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhBw80Y54gg

On a website dedicated to the discussion of cardboard, that is important ... why?

I can't hold that against them, nothing wrong with debate. I consider myself Fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. I don't think one side or the other is always right, and some may say it's a fool errand to think so.

These test group numbers are skewed. Demographics indicate N54 board members are in the high risk catagory for COVID mortality. This could be problematic for card shows. Nobody WANTS to get sick, and few believe in fate anymore.

Using 9/11 numbers by using COVID deaths makes sense to some people because they feel both are both foreign attacks on US soil. I just don't see how it relates at all. It seems like it is kind of trvializing 9/11.

I guess deaths are deaths in some people eyes. Just like people are people, regardless of how inspiring, health conscience, or contriubuting they are, or have been to society.

Ted "I cant tell if it's lack of Oxygen, or 30 years of sex drugs and roll and roll" Sherman

I got mine because I figured I'd rather take my chances with the shot than with the virus (this is coming from someone who hates needles). I don't hold it against anyone who doesn't get the shot; there are a lot of question marks about it, and reasonable people can look at them and opt out.

Well written. I didn't make the comparison of covid deaths to 9-11, but I understand it in that both killed a large number of Americans. To see that number continue to die weekly or monthly or whatever while people argue about putting on a simple mask while in close contact with strangers is demoralizing. Much like the early conversation where someone brought up WWII deaths.

And forgive me, but I think the loss of fat, old, and sick people are worth mourning, too.

Got my second shot today.:)

Found something useful for my cardhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...89749e8c9d.jpg

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

My wife got vaccinated at the first opportunity (she's a front line worker). I got my second vaccination last month. Can't wait until they have one ready for my kids.

Development of the vaccine was definitely an accelerated process. Of course, the increases in technology (particularly the computing power needed for advanced genomics) have been logarithmic over the past decades, since the country/world last made such a concerted, wholerhearted, and funded effort to develop a vaccine for an emergency.

Anyway, everyone must make their own decisions, but I get the feeling that a lot of the people waiting don't really understand the science behind these vaccines, which is understandable. Really a public service campaign to educate the public on how these vaccines work, how they were developed and tested, and the risks involved would do a great service to the country.

Because you are in a section of the site titled "off topic", there are plenty of cardboard conversations in the "on topic" sections

I would point out that I was using 10% of covid death numbers, so in actuality I was trivializing covid.


Yes, I am a person you thinks that dying is a bad thing even for those who have been deemed to not be inspiring enough or contributed enough to society, because I like to think that those people might have done good things that I am unaware of.

Doug "it's been 37 years" Goodman

Your response doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, this is the "off topic" section. But if you look at the where you click for this section, you will see this underneath:

"General Chat and off topic stuff. Please no politics or religion." [I've taken the liberty of bolding the pertinent portion.]

So when we're being politely asked not to discuss politics, why is Cliff's statement -

- even remotely defensible in this "off topic" section?

But more importantly, my initial question hasn't been answered by Cliff or you. In a more general sense, in either this section or in any of the sections of this forum -

In any section of this forum, why would it be a "good thing" to "know which side of the aisle the responding members stand?"

That's a pre-2015 flip. Mexican fake?

I got the second shot on Tuesday and holy BLEEP did I feel like crap all day yesterday. Would do it again.

I went into town last week and had lunch (Taco Bell) and got the first shot (Moderna.) The only side effect was that I seemed to be gassy the rest of the day.

In the old Sesame Street tones.............. "One of these things.... is NOT like the others". :D


On a more related note : I have had a load of people close to me get vaccinated. The vast majority reported little or no issues. A few did, but it was certainly nothing major.
Personally, I will NOT be getting the vaccine. I may rethink it in 4-5 months though, after some time has elapsed and we have more information under our belts.

I have had Covid TWO TIMES now, yep I'm one of the lucky few. :mad: (On my most recent - I was told point blank, cases have been decreasing, this makes no sense..... you don't even really have any symptoms other than a bad dry headache. We can only speculate you caught a newer strain, but we would never know for sure unless we thoroughly tested your sample")

I just got over the second bout a few months back and 2 separate doctors told me "You would be a fool to get vaccinated now, wait 6 or so months, when everyone else's begin to wear down. Then you will be smart to get it."

I'll say this. My doctor told me this when I got it the first time, which was March of last year. Also realize at that time, its right when the virus paranoia was at an all time high. They said possibly millions would ultimately die.
My Doctor told me point blank........."Do NOT come in, you are 49, basically healthy and will get over it."

That kind of told me right then and there exactly how "deadly" this is for the general population.

Then report Cliff for being political, and report me for being anti-organized religion.

That should solve your problem.

+1

I wish Doug and Cliff could solve my problem but since it is old age I am not hopeful

First time really seeing this thread. Yawl don't report anything just be cool. Try to keep politics out of the pandemic even though it's almost impossible. Thanks

I got my 2nd shot 3 days ago. It felt like a light Charlie horse and that was about it. The first shot had no side effects.
I have tried to convince my 24 yrs. old daughter, the data scientist who graduated magna cum laude in statistics, and she won't do it. She says she might later but it's too soon for her. I just shake my head. I can't make her do it :). Statistically it is a no brainer to me.
I think everyone should get one but it's an individual choice. To each their own.

.

That's really off-center for a 10.

That is what I dislike the most. The fact this info is never shared nor talked about on MSM.
Just get the vaccine, get the vaccine, get the vaccine as soon as you can!!
If I didn't know any better, I'd swear big pharma and crooked politicians were more behind this supposed pandemic than anyone else.

Like I've said before, with a 97%-98% recovery rate in the vast majority of the population, why is this also not talked about?

I'm sure if these 2 healthy women were given all the facts or their doctors told them what yours told you, they might be still be alive.
https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...zeneca-vaccine
https://globalnews.ca/video/7815211/...zeneca-vaccine

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1212939.shtml

Also, another thing that I can't understand is why are some who have had covid and fully recovered from it getting the vaccine?
We are being brainwashed that we need medication and/or shots for every ailment under the sun instead of relying on our own immune system.
Again, blindly ignoring or silencing how rich pharma and others are getting from all these vaccines doesn't mean it is not happening.

So far, 5,800 fully vaccinated people have caught COVID-19 anyway in U.S., CDC says.
About 5,800 people who have been vaccinated against coronavirus have become infected anyway, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tells CNN.

Some became seriously ill and 74 people died, the CDC said. It said 396 -- 7% -- of those who got infected after they were vaccinated required hospitalization.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...says-1.5388245

I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to slam and discredit me for telling them another side of the story exists in all this that is being silenced, but if that makes those that are incapable of thinking for themselves or questioning anything, then so be it if that makes them feel better. :cool:

The problem we have is that many older folks' immune systems don't work that well, and the same is true for other folks who don't take the best care of themselves. That, combined with the fact that this virus is quite contagious and is a very efficient killer of people with compromised respiratory function and certain other issues.

No solution is perfect and there are downsides and trade offs to all of them and there needs to be careful assessment and openness, but framing the discussion in conspiratorial terms doesn't IMO advance the ball much.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/07/the-us...ine-passports/
https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/...ys-new-report/

Not at all. Where was I complaining about him being political? I never did.

I'm just trying to understand the "one good thing about these threads is that they let you know which side of the aisle the responding members stand." Why is it a good thing to know? What's the benefit?

You trying to change the subject to complaining about politics doesn't answer the question: What's the benefit of knowing "which side of the aisle the responding members stand?"

Jesus would never be caught playing shitty Slayer riffs....
Even HE has more taste.

Dmitri Young submitted it...

Because generally speaking people on one side of the aisle live in a fantasy world and people on the other side of the aisle live in the real world.

Doug "like how I did that?" Goodman

Are you sure?

interesting. ;)

Warriors' Damion Lee tested positive for COVID-19 despite full vaccination

Lee went on to describe the symptoms he experienced, including headache, chills, sneezing, congestion, soreness, body aches, and what he described as "brain fog" — where he'd lost track of what he was talking about five minutes into a conversation. "It felt like I was hit by a car, hit by two cars at once," he added.

https://theathletic.com/news/warrior...n/muRvt49vKYuI

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/gol...032701485.html

Dag, 1 out of 6K people to have this happen. Granted, 6K out of 80 mil is crazy odds; I'd rather win the lottery.

I haven't really been reading this thread but I wanted to mention a couple things.

Most of my family are not vaccinated. Some are close to being denyers of the pandemic. I try to be more middle of the road and evaluate both sides. I work in a large factory and up until 5 weeks ago we didn't have too many issues. A few people got it but got over it. Then a nice lady who works there got it and died within 3 days. I actually saw her on her last day there and did notice she didn't look well. I found out she had diabetes like myself and it really made me think. Most people who die tend to have other health factors and I do.

Then a friend at work, also a denyer, told me his father went to Florida and now had covid. He died within 5 days. My friend did a complete 180 and within a week had his whole family vaccinated.

So now I am really thinking about what to do. I don't really put myself in danger as I am not a people person and do not socialize much. I generally go straight home after work. Order food delivered a lot. But still go food shopping once a week. Sometimes at 6 am to avoid people.

Last Friday I decided to stop by a big grocery store to pick up a Mothers Day card (she's 88 and my sister did get her vaccinated as well as herself since they live together) and a few items. As I am walking down the aisles I heard an announcement, "any customer that wants to get a Covid19 vaccinationation can walk up to the pharmacy. No appointment necessary". So I decide to see how many people took them up. I walk over and no one is there. I know if they don't use up the vaccine it can go to waste. So I say to myself, if they have the one and done type I will get it. Guess what? One and done Johnson and Johnson. So I said OK I will do it. I figured it was a sign. Took about 5 minutes of paperwork and they asked me to come back in 15 to show I was feeling OK. So far everything is fine. But I still wonder if in a year from now it will be like "I Am Legend" LOL

Nobody ever claimed these vaccines were 100 percent effective; indeed the flu vaccines to which people don't seem to object are far far far less effective. So anectodes like Dale's are to be expected.

The precise number of these breakthrough cases is unknown, but figures released by states suggest it is at least several thousand. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which has had a team monitoring breakthrough infections since February, has partial data but has not made it public.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ng-vaccinated/

We are still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19. After you’ve been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, you should keep taking precautions in public places like wearing a mask, staying 6 feet apart from others, avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated spaces, and washing your hands often. CDC will continue to update recommendations as we know more.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ect/after.html

Sorry, I'd rather get covid and build up immunity naturally than to get an experimental drug that has been rushed through without approval, (other than for emergency use), that still shows people, in the thousands, who are still getting severely ill and dying after receiving both vaccines.

Like the article above, why has that information been kept secret so far? Why is the fact that people are still catching covid after they have been vaccinated, not being talked about much, if at all?

Again, anyone who wants one, go ahead. Like I've stated, I am just showing the other side of the story that, imo, should be talked about more but for some mysterious reason, it is not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-qzkDNFMqg

If you are linking to an article with the information, how is it secret?:confused:
The CDC is not the only source of information. Maybe it has its reasons for waiting.
And by the way unvaccinated people who have had the illness are also getting it for a second time.

The only thing that changes the minds of deniers are dead family or friends.

So, I guess we could hope for dead denier family and friends, but that wouldn't be very polite.

Doug "I wear a mask to be polite" Goodman

I don't know a single person who has contracted covid, and of course, with that, I don't know anyone who has died of it, but I did know someone who was perfectly healthy who received the vaccine and died 4 days later, but I guess that is just anecdotal, just like these?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...cine-1.5398821

Some became seriously ill and 74 people died
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...says-1.5388245

Alberta reports country's second known death due to AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine

https://www.cp24.com/news/alberta-re...cine-1.5414687

1.3% of Canada’s COVID-19 cases had 1st vaccine: PHAC
Two hundred and three people were hospitalized and 53 people died of COVID-19 after receiving one shot of the vaccine, PHAC added.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7829119/c...t-dose-canada/

Doug, maybe you should ask your question to these "Deniers"? It would be real interesting to hear their replies to you and if you would still call them deniers after?

Mmm, who to believe? Front line doctors' and Nurses, or what MSM feeds me? :confused:
https://www.newyorker.com/science/me...-covid-vaccine
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-v...er-reluctance/
https://www.dw.com/en/covid-why-some...ted/a-56162735
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/s...cine-1.5872004
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...vaccine-access
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/...-2021021721967