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seattlerainiers

07-17-2019 04:52 PM

What a Rube

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicem (Post 1899732)

Exactly, and I bet cards will seem much more ordinary (including high grade) after discovering other aspects of baseball collecting. At least it did for me.

Probably not trimmed...

https://photos.imageevent.com/bicem/...%20cabinet.jpg

What a silly-looking card Jeff. Who would want to own one of those?

Aquarian Sports Cards

07-17-2019 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912 (Post 1899854)

I find it funny that everyone is so confident that their collection has escaped this wrath. Almost as funny as those who think no longer buying from PWCC is going to sheild them. This is just now getting out but has been going on for a long time. At this point these cards are all out there being bought and sold by unknowing, honest people other than Brent...even on the BST here. I'm not saying that denial can't help some people sleep at night, but it's delusion nonetheless.

We all unknowingly have altered cards in our collections. All of us.

I think, with a lot of us, we don't believe that not buying from PWCC is going to shield us. It's more about not rewarding a company that has done so much harm to the hobby we purport to love.

tedzan

07-17-2019 05:47 PM

Before I make my comments on this subject, here is where I'm coming from. Displayed here are my first two BB cards (I am not sure
which one of these was my very 1st). The 1947 picture from my Yankee Stadium Team Photo pack or the 1947 BOND BREAD BB card.
Why Johnny Lindell ? Well, as an 8-year old, I was really impressed with Johnny's performance in the 1947 World Series (Yankees vs
Dodgers). I listened to the entire 7-game Series on my Radio.
Lindell's 1947 World Series stats (6 games)....AB = 18, BAvg = .500, SLG = .778, Hits = 9, RBI = 7, BB = 5, K = 2.
Plus 4 diving catches in LF which ultimately saved each of the games those particular days.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...pixlindell.jpg
OK, this is the 73rd year (excluding 4 years in the Air Force and first 7 years of marriage) since I started collecting anything related to
BB. And, I will continue collecting BB cards (and Sports related memorabilia) until it's time to pass my stuff onto my Grandson.

Upon reading the posts in this thread, all I can say is that I feel sorry for many of you who are allowing some "bad guys" in this hobby
destroy your passion for collecting Sportscards. I can understand that some of you have invested a lot into graded cards and you have
become very "pi$$ed". Eventually, this "storm" will have passed, and here's hoping you return to this great hobby.

I am probably the oldest "dude" on this forum; however, spending many hours going thru my BB card collection.....researching certain
aspects of these cards (or sets)…..wheeling-and-dealing with some of you guys....and first and foremost of all, establishing friendships
which last a lifetime...have kept me young at heart.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

wondo

07-17-2019 06:05 PM

I’m buying more than I ever have. Having a ball!

Exhibitman

07-17-2019 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1899725)

Since my passion is cards, I've had the most fun with the miscut cards. I buy what most people don't want and can usually pick them up very cheap. Here's a few that I've picked up so far. I don't think I paid more than $30 for any of these. The more miscut the better - I prefer to see part of another card - but it does have to be in otherwise very high grade condition. (If you have some for sale, hit me up :D)

oldjudge

07-17-2019 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan (Post 1899896)

Well said Ted!

Yoda	07-17-2019 07:03 PM

PWCC must be a full blown money-making machine. I am sure their cash flow covers overheads easily and leaves a tidy profit for the owners. But poor Bret. Think of the agro.

tedzan

07-18-2019 09:00 AM

Thank you, Jay. I appreciate the compliment.

As I recall, you are a Yankees fan. But, too young to have seen the 1947 World Series. In my opinion this World Series was
one of the most exciting ever played. Plus, it was Jackie Robinson's first Series. I have seen most of the World Series since
1949 (when my folks purchased our first TV).
Check-it-out, if you haven't seen it.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Fuddjcal

07-18-2019 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAllen2556 (Post 1899663)

I always figured there were mistakes made on graded cards, but I now believe the percentage is MUCH higher than the 1 or 2% I used to assume.

And to make it worse, I'm now questioning the cards I already own that are in PSA holders. This card is a PSA 4. I admit, I bought the 4 not the card. I was at the National, saw it and bought it before I really looked at it. Now I just don't know. It looks funny to me. And now I know I can't trust these guys to catch the most basic card alterations that I foolishly assumed they would pretty much never miss. That's a game changer for me.

So, yes, it has made me even more jaded.

I'm wondering if other people have graded cards that they now look at and wonder.....

Attachment 359651

This Mike Schmidt rookie card has been dipped in bleach and trimmed or I'm not Brent Mastro

Fuddjcal

07-18-2019 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGuinness (Post 1899624)

I'm curious if anyone who does feel the same way, that recent revelations have ruined things, could go deeper as to what has changed. I ask, in part, because while the revelations are dramatic, trimming, recoloring, etc. are not at all new; these types of scammers and bad actors have had a presence in the hobby for a long, long time.
The revelations are shocking and I am still frustrated that we have to deal with card doctors and this type of bad behavior. But perhaps what is even more frustrating is how PWCC has not seemed to lose much business despite the revelations. It's like a restaurant that people discover is serving rat meat instead of hamburgers, all while adding RoundUp and spitting on them before giving them to people. And yet customers still line up...
Anyway, I'm not going to let a few bad actors ruin my fun in the hobby. But my collecting goals are modest (to say the least) and my philosophy with buying any card is that I will make the purchase if I am ok with it losing all it's value and I can still enjoy it.

What's new for me is the PWCC business plan from the start. To shill bid, bleach and trim every card for the taking, re holster a sell for a huge profit.

I'm just not interested in a hobby that allows that bullshit for 15 years, sorry.

todeen

07-18-2019 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MULLINS5 (Post 1899559)

Opposite for me. Since the scandal I've ditched graded, gone raw, and have a lot more fun (and money). Bought a bunch of unikeep binders and pages.

I never got into graded cards. Bought raw, still by raw. I did kind of follow authenticated autographs. But for 10 years I have heard that fraud is rampant in this sector. I followed the hall of shame blog. Best advice has always been buy from your trusted local dealer. So the news to me hasn't been earth shattering.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

dabigyankeeman

07-18-2019 09:40 AM

Over the years I have bought a lot of graded cards mainly to verify that they are authentic and not counterfeits, and then popped them out of their slabs and put them raw into sheets in albums. The last couple of years I have left them in their slabs again mainly for authenticity in case I want to sell them down the road. I dont get into the super-expensive stuff, and for me I am not going to let this scandal take away the fantastic enjoyment I get out of collecting. I think that except for a small bunch of really intense collectors, this whole thing in time will blow over anyway.

AGuinness

07-18-2019 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1899921)

Well said Ted!

Ted hits it on the head.

Also, it's good to note that while the doctors and scam artists are out there, the modern age of the hobby includes tools to catch and identify them (not to mention the dedicated people out there willing to spend the time to do so).

Fuddjcal

07-18-2019 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1954 topps (Post 1899789)

I'm going to stick out from the normal crowd here when I say I collect exclusively high grade, however, I collect only one set. My collecting goals will not change.

I've bought several cards in my set from PWCC including my Banks rookie and needless to say, I'm confident my cards are unaltered. However, I've also been highly skeptical of a few PWCC cards in the past. Example, I passed on a very nice Mays 8.5 that I felt could have been trimmed. As it turns out, this card WAS listed as being outed by BO. When I saw it was outed I wasn't shocked but it was horribly upsetting that I considered bidding.

PSA missed the boat and that's not acceptable. This affects all auction houses and the entire hobby, not just PWCC! Cards turn over several times and I'm not confident Memory Lane, Mile High, REA, Lelands, or others will catch these doctored cards.

If you don't think that Banks Rookie is doctored, I have a bridge to sell you LOLOLOL.

ullmandds

07-18-2019 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGuinness (Post 1900105)

seriously? you mean like PSA?

perezfan

07-18-2019 11:05 AM

If PWCC comes away from all of this unscathed, and if there aren't some strong ramifications/changes in store for PSA (i.e. the way they grade + conduct business), then Brent's Tenets will inevitably become the Hobby norm.

At that point (if nothing ultimately happens, and Brent's views on "conservation" are deemed valid), then I am out completely. I am still hanging on by a thread, and finding some nice raw cards via Greg Morris and others. But my continued participation in the hobby pretty much rests on what specific punishment is in store for the Doctors, Corrupt Dealers and TPGs (whether negligent, incompetent or complicit).

AGuinness

07-18-2019 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1900117)

seriously? you mean like PSA?

I was referring more to Worthpoint, etc. that helps with the before and after photos. The better tools are the online records of previous sales and accompanying photos, not to mention bidding history and other ways to ferret out shilling (if we expand to other scandals).
But yes, PSA and TPGs are also tools that can be used. I don't believe, nor ever have believed, that any TPG is infallible, but I also don't believe they are co-conspirators with the other parties involved in the doctoring scandals (jury remains out on Beckett with that former employee getting black labels). They offer an opinion that should be taken with a grain of salt, and I'm not going to cast out every slabbed card because a number of them got through the grading process after being altered.

LEHR	07-18-2019 03:24 PM

After 30+ years of card collecting and owning thousands of PSA cards over the years, I can now hold all my graded cards in two hands.
Thankfully I became disenchanted with card collecting long before the latest fiasco.
I'm still an avid collector, but I've definitely moved on from cards, and truthfully, I don't miss it.

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