Again- Looking out only for themselves and their own profits. Nothing they do is in the true interest of the collector.

Perhaps Ben stated it best...

"The best part is the people you scam are also the ones sticking up for you".

If alive today, PT Barnum would be quite proud.

There is no doubt PT today would have started a grading service.

They are a publicly traded company. Every decision they make will put the best interests of the shareholders first. If this scandal is as big as many suspect, writing the a check for every bad card could either bankrupt the company or turn it into a penny stock.

Not only is the seller in most cases not vouching for the TPG, in most cases they expressly disavow any expertise, reliance, etc. Obviously I'm talking big sellers and not just some dude at a show.

Fully understood... But as a collector, I personally would not be investing heavily in an entity that puts its customer so far behind its shareholder.

Referring back to Ben's quote, I only hope people consider this mindset as they decide where to put their money, moving forward. If PSA is that incompetent at what they purportedly do, perhaps bankruptcy is the best outcome. Right now, the self-appointed "experts" possess all of the power. The balance of power needs to shift significantly, from corporation to collector.

Because without us, there is no hobby, and no PSA. Yet the hypnosis continues. What a scam :(

People are still buying cards now, the market didnt just die. Obviously if there arguments over market value there can be lawsuits and experts brought in if all the time money and attorney fees are worth it to do it that way..

thus far there seems to be agreements as to market price because no lawsuits filed

Many of those defrauded are not even aware of it yet. Unless you're on BO or net54, you probably aren't aware of the scandal's massive scale. Assuming it ever hits the more mainstream media, there WILL be lawsuits.

These things don't happen overnight.... Give it some time, for gosh sake!

i was just answering the question about how the heck could anyone agree on a market price now.

I do think many that buy 5k cards and over have a friend or two that may know the larger picture even if they dont. So yeah some guy that bought a 200 dollar card may not know about it for 10 years but the 1952 Topps Rutherford that sold for 12k or whatever...no way he doesnt know that . Card community is pretty small, the PSA set registry community even smaller, people that buy 10k+ cards even smaller than that.

does everyone know..of course not, but enough time has elapsed that for 5k or more cards if PSA had said we not paying anyone, a lawsuit would of been filed by now. Its obvious, that enough people are being satisfied by now on this first wave that a market price agreement has been agreed too for now..

This is what’s going to happen......... a whole lot of nothing burger

Just has Tom Hanks Said there is no crying in baseball
There is no ethics in the sports card industry

I think there will be something burger...

Not sure what, and not expecting "In & Out" or "Shake Shack" quality. Perhaps more like White Castle... but something positive has to emerge from this mess.

To me it all has to come down to the grading company PSA....they’re supposed to be the authority.....what good is their services if they can’t stop this.....
If people lose their faith in PSA our Industry will be DONE. This is why I believe nothing will happen except business as usual for PSA meaning no reason why this happened no paying back no addressing it publicly period. To many people have millions of dollars tied up in this industry they don’t want it to fall I don’t want it to fail.

Does PSA have a good excuse or Reason why this happened?
The more they deny and keep hush the worse it’s gonna be for PSA in the long run......

I still think Nothing is Going to a Change .....I feel like at PSA, they’re saying, or at least telling their share holders stay calm keep hush....there are too many suckers whom are addicted to our registry and grading brand.... we are making Everyone Tons of Money on our Brand/slabbed cards/they need us... The dealers, Auction Houses, Collectors, Flippers are profiting......they need us more then we need them....they won’t bite the hand that feeds them.
Keep Quiet we will get through this....our brand is strong.

I think something will happen, and I predict PSA will acknowledge that they have a responsibility to fix this. Where the problem may lie is PSA might feel it only needs a few tweaks to make it all right again. So their admission might fall quite a bit short.

But this is too massive for them to pretend nothing happened. Maybe they'll offer all aggrieved parties a Domino's pizza with two free toppings. Would that work for everybody?

Agree with all the above, except for the part highlighted in bold italics...

I do not think the hobby is anywhere near "done" if PSA were to go down. It was a great hobby before PSA ever existed, and it could continue to be. Very quickly, something else would come along to inevitably replace them. If there are to be any "learnings" from this scandal, then the new entity will be something improved and enhanced.

The vast majority of cards in PSA Holders wouldn't be deemed bad. Some current 8s, 9s and 10s would lose some value, and deservedly so. The grading game is very close to a monopoly right now, and perhaps a new player or two would be a good thing for the majority of collectors.

That said... you're probably right. Big money and corrupt influences will dictate that nothing changes.

If the card is raw and there's an issue, then yes, a refund by the seller would be in order.

If the card is graded then it should be on the TPG to take care of business.

IMO, most collectors will bid based on the grade and the fact that the TPG has opined the card has not been altered. That said, the bidder better understand the differences between a reputable and fly by night TPG.

It's pretty sad to see this hobby being "de-graded" as rapidly as it has in the past few years.

There's always SGC, or is it now S_C?

Peter, Could PSA not honoring it's guarantee and passing the buck to sellers be taken as false advertising?

Where are they "advertising" the guarantee? I forget where it is now. I only know where SGC's used to be.

A link at the bottom of this page
https://www.psacard.com/services/tradingcardgrading

Takes you here
https://www.psacard.com/about/financialguarantee/

I think I see where you're going, it's more just there than advertised, so maybe the answer would be no.

It doesn't seem to me like the type of case a government agency would ever pursue at least not in isolation. I guess a statement on a website might fall within a definition of advertising since it's promoting a service, but still...

I wasn't thinking government agency, but the point seems the same, that the idea is pretty weak.

^Reason I do prototyping and wrenching and not law. :o

I got close once though. In drafting school there was an ad on the bulletin board for a law school. I figured it would be nice to be a patent lawyer who could do his own drawings, which were a specialty at the time.

I called and they seemed annoyed that I didn't have at least a bachelors degree in something yet, and even more so when I pointed out that they were advertising in a 2 year state technical school that didn't even offer bachelors degrees.

A private claim wouldn't work unless and until there was actual harm from a guarantee not being honored in a specific case, and then you would just bring a claim for breach of the guarantee, not false advertising.

This is an excellent point. The seller has a responsibility to stand behind the product they sell, but there is also an onus on the buyer to do their homework.

When I was starting to buy vintage and especially pre-war cards, the later of which I had very little knowledge of at the time, if I decided to buy a card slabbed by a tpg, I did much more than simply look at the grade of the card, the card's centering and overall visual aesthetic. I was looking at the slab, itself, searching for signs of tampering. I looked at the card, with the highest resolution possible, searching for things like uneven/wavy edges that would indicate trimming. I did whatever possible to look into the history of the seller, both here, and, if listed, their Ebay store. I asked questions, building a rapport with the member. I'd ask about the history of the card. And once I had the card in hand, I grabbed my loupe, and examined the card under natural, LED and black light.

As a proactive, informed buyer, I cannot completely eliminate risk, but I can do things to dramatically reduce the likelihood that I'll be searching through a spreadsheet of certification numbers. If it's determined that one of the cards I've purchased has been altered, I'll speak with the seller, but I'll also accept a certain amount of responsibility.

Here is the problem, though. Not everybody buying cards has the knowledge our forum members have. They'll see the card graded, and pay a premium price for a card they feel has received an unimpeachable opinion. What if a young kid is collecting cards, and Grandma or Grandpa decides to get their grandson a baseball card for a birthday or Christmas gift? They won't have any clue that there are issues with TPGs, with card doctors. They'll be completely oblivious to the fraud within the hobby. The kid certainly won't know, either, and that card will sit in their collection for years before they stumble across an old article here, or on Blowout. By then, it's too late.

A related example is if, after the sale new information is discovered about the card, that wasn't known nat the time. For example, if a few years after the sale, hobby historians deduce or learn that a card considered and cataloged as being from 1920 was actually made in 1928. Something perhaps relevant for rookie card collectors-- that rookie card may no longer be a rookie card.

I don't believe the seller should be considered responsible for this, even though the card was misdated at the time of sale.

If I sold one of these cards I'd absolutely accept a refund and hope dealers do the same, but understand not everyone may have the funds to make things right.