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-   -   PWCC PSA2 T3 Cobb (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=270912)

bensie 07-06-2019 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896364)
Not my card that is being sold fraudulently, bro.

Like I said, talk is cheap. Would love to see what you would actually do if it were your gravy on the line.

Peter_Spaeth 07-06-2019 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bensie (Post 1896369)
Like I said, talk is cheap. Would love to see what you would actually do if it were your gravy on the line.

I would without hesitation take the card down.

rhettyeakley 07-06-2019 07:23 PM

Gotta admit that is a pretty weak way to handle this Jesse!

No mention it used to be in an Authentic holder previously? You really don't feel like that might be a important piece of information? I'm actually appalled that you feel like this is okay in any way shape or form, it also speaks volumes about Brent and his decision (despite everything that has gone on) to continue with this auction, he has learned nothing!

The work on that T3 destroyed that card, the edges are obviously messed with and they really butchered the erasure on the front, just terrible. Do you guys (you & Brent) need more proof that this card was altered?

I think we all know why Jesse was coming to Brent's defense here on the forum, far from an impartial observer.

Overall this is pathetic!

rhettyeakley 07-06-2019 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bensie (Post 1896369)
Like I said, talk is cheap. Would love to see what you would actually do if it were your gravy on the line.

I for one wouldn't be an a**hole and try to pass the buck to another [possibly] unsuspecting collector... you know the "right thing" to do.

Many here have cards worth far more than an altered T3 Cobb and if they were proven to be altered, stolen or otherwise messed with the vast majority here would do the "right thing." That should be par for the course.

Why would anyone here have to correct someone else's mistake? It is on them not us or some keyboard warrior (ie you).

Peter_Spaeth 07-06-2019 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley (Post 1896373)
Gotta admit that is a pretty weak way to handle this Jesse!

No mention it used to be in an Authentic holder previously? You really don't feel like that might be a important piece of information? I'm actually appalled that you feel like this is okay in any way shape or form, it also speaks volumes about Brent and his decision (despite everything that has gone on) to continue with this auction, he has learned nothing!

The work on that T3 destroyed that card, the edges are obviously messed with and they really butchered the erasure on the front, just terrible. Do you guys (you & Brent) need more proof that this card was altered?

I think we all know why Jesse was coming to Brent's defense here on the forum, far from an impartial observer.

Overall this is pathetic!

And yet the amendment says the following.
In our opinion the current grade of a 'Good 2' appears completely appropriate.

A disgrace.

swarmee 07-06-2019 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bensie (Post 1896362)
It's easy to spend someone else's money. Why don't you buy the card and have it reholdered?

If only there was a company willing to reimburse him the current market value for a card that was Altered and put in a numbered holder...maybe they even have a Grade Guarantee or something that could be utilized in this fashion?

rhettyeakley 07-06-2019 07:37 PM

I read too fast and didn't see that Brent did mention that it had previously been graded authentic BUT I don't understand how a card can be holdered "AUTHENTIC" due to some alteration & then the said alterations were removed (and done so terribly) so in affect re-altering an already altered card somehow in you minds can be an accurate PSA 2? And only mentioned in small print at the end of the description? What is wrong with you guys?

ullmandds 07-06-2019 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1896376)
If only there was a company willing to reimburse him the current market value for a card that was Altered and put in a numbered holder...maybe they even have a Grade Guarantee or something that could be utilized in this fashion?

Ya...the mentality of many in the hobby the last 10 or so years is that you just can't lose money...but it happens! Not every card only goes up in value? You win some...you lose some...no one wins them all unless you're a crook!

Peter_Spaeth 07-06-2019 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley (Post 1896377)
I read too fast and didn't see that Brent did mention that it had previously been graded authentic BUT I don't understand how a card can be holdered "AUTHENTIC" due to some alteration & then the said alterations were removed (and done so terribly) so in affect re-altering an already altered card somehow in you minds can be an accurate PSA 2? And only mentioned in small print at the end of the description? What is wrong with you guys?

After page after page of PWCC boilerplate. NOBODY is going to see this. And if they do, they will read how Brent says the grade is appropriate. It's beyond belief that you have signed onto this Jesse. And (rhetorical question) what is wrong with Brent after all that's happened pulling this crap instead of taking down an altered card? He does the wrong thing, it seems, every single time.

BLongley 07-06-2019 07:46 PM

Guess this is why Jesse has remained a fan of PWCC... because they both have the same integrity. I can only hope that this information makes it into the investigation. The recent update shows the following looking into PWCC:

-FBI Criminal Justice Information Systems
-The Supreme Court Of The U.S.
-U.S. House Of Representatives
-eBay Inc

kateighty 07-06-2019 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896223)
I think in the context of this particular thread people are being unfair to Jesse. He bought the card from Dan McKee who is a legend here, why would he think the card had been altered? (Perhaps Dan will enlighten us from whom he acquired it.)

He then stated his opinion of and some factual information about the card which obviously showed he had seen the card. The OP had specifically asked about the card, I don't see Jesse responding to him as trying to pimp his own auction or vouch for PWCC. And as soon as the alteration was identified, he confirmed it was his card as some people had not understood that, and indicated he was going to have the card pulled.

Sorry, late as usual but thanks for explaining these details Peter. What's obvious to some here isn't so obvious to others.

Peter_Spaeth 07-06-2019 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kateighty (Post 1896383)
Sorry, late as usual but thanks for explaining these details Peter. What's obvious to some here isn't so obvious to others.

You may want to keep reading the thread, all that has changed. When I wrote that I assumed Jesse was taking the card down.

pokerplyr80 07-06-2019 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896379)
After page after page of PWCC boilerplate. NOBODY is going to see this. And if they do, they will read how Brent says the grade is appropriate. It's beyond belief that you have signed onto this Jesse. And (rhetorical question) what is wrong with Brent after all that's happened pulling this crap instead of taking down an altered card? He does the wrong thing, it seems, every single time.

I was sent the statement via email and did not notice the placement. I will discuss further with Brent. My intention was to have prospective bidders made aware of the history that I was unaware of when purchasing this card and let them make their own decision.

Peter_Spaeth 07-06-2019 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1896386)
I was sent the statement via email and did not notice the placement. I will discuss further with Brent. My intention was to have prospective bidders made aware of the history that I was unaware of when purchasing this card and let them make their own decision.

Did you approve the statement that the grade was appropriate? And what about the next time the card gets sold? The right thing to do here is SO obvious.

CobbSpikedMe 07-06-2019 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1896353)

In our opinion the current grade of a 'Good 2' appears completely appropriate. Please bid accordingly.

This sentence feels like a proverbial middle finger to be honest.

They admit the card has had work done to it and that it was correctly graded as Authentic/Altered but now that it's in a 2 holder then F you, it's a 2 now sucker.

Bicem 07-06-2019 08:04 PM

Too funny, if it were any other AH other than PWCC Jesse would be leading the charge pitchfork in hand.

BLongley 07-06-2019 08:05 PM

Look at these great things Brent is still doing...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3827

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3839

And Jesse you’re getting famous over on other forums too.

Peter_Spaeth 07-06-2019 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe (Post 1896391)
This sentence feels like a proverbial middle finger to be honest.

They admit the card has had work done to it and that it was correctly graded as Authentic/Altered but now that it's in a 2 holder then F you, it's a 2 now sucker.

Of course no picture of the Authentic so people can judge the actual work.

ValKehl 07-06-2019 08:11 PM

What about the 17 folks who have already bid on this card plus those folks that haven't yet bid but have created snipes, many/most of whom probably did so before the disclosure was added to the bottom of PWCC's eBay listing? My guess is that most of these folks won't even be going back the reread the listing's details. At least I don't after I have once read a listing's details and decided to bid on it. IMO, at the very least, some words about there being a new disclosure should be added to the title line of the listing.

Peter_Spaeth 07-06-2019 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValKehl (Post 1896396)
What about the 17 folks who have already bid on this card plus those folks that haven't yet bid but have created snipes, many/most of whom probably did so before the disclosure was added to the bottom of PWCC's eBay listing? My guess is that most of these folks won't even be going back the reread the listing's details. At least I don't after I have once read the listing's details and decided to bid on it. IMO, at the very least, some words about there being a new disclosure should be added to the title line of the listing.

I don't think titles can be amended after bids have been placed. Could be wrong. Either way, you make an excellent point about snipes, this mess cannot possibly be fixed in the context of a live auction.

kateighty 07-06-2019 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896384)
You may want to keep reading the thread, all that has changed. When I wrote that I assumed Jesse was taking the card down.

Yeah I already read that bit. Still felt the need to give you props for explaining what you did when you did.

kateighty 07-06-2019 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValKehl (Post 1896396)
What about the 17 folks who have already bid on this card plus those folks that haven't yet bid but have created snipes, many/most of whom probably did so before the disclosure was added to the bottom of PWCC's eBay listing? My guess is that most of these folks won't even be going back the reread the listing's details. At least I don't after I have once read a listing's details and decided to bid on it. IMO, at the very least, some words about there being a new disclosure should be added to the title line of the listing.

Very good points!

dariushou 07-06-2019 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1896386)
I was sent the statement via email and did not notice the placement. I will discuss further with Brent. My intention was to have prospective bidders made aware of the history that I was unaware of when purchasing this card and let them make their own decision.

The only right thing to do in my opinion is to either pull the auction or put it in the title of the auction. It needs to be clear and conspicuous and anything less such as including it in the description is not going to hold up. It's ridiculous to do anything other than those two options in my opinion. If someone buys that card and claim they didn't see the fine print (the description) then you will lose. FTC Standard and let me tell you something..it applies here. You know the card is altered and so does everyone reading this forum and Brent. Anything less is fraud in my opinion.

Johnny630 07-06-2019 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dariushou (Post 1896402)
The only right thing to do in my opinion is to either pull the auction or put it in the title of the auction. It needs to be clear and conspicuous and anything in the description is not going to hold up. It's ridiculous to do anything other than those two options in my opinion. If someone buys that card and claim they didn't see the fine print (the description) then you will lose. FTC Standard and let me tell you something..it applies here. You know the card is altered and so does everyone reading this forum and Brent. Anything less is fraud in my opinion.

This hobby has gone to hell.....it’s an absolute shame �� I’m glad I can still look back and remember all the great friends I’ve made from being in the hobby....it just seems to be getting worse by the day hour and minute

Peter_Spaeth 07-06-2019 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dariushou (Post 1896402)
The only right thing to do in my opinion is to either pull the auction or put it in the title of the auction. It needs to be clear and conspicuous and anything less such as including it in the description is not going to hold up. It's ridiculous to do anything other than those two options in my opinion. If someone buys that card and claim they didn't see the fine print (the description) then you will lose. FTC Standard and let me tell you something..it applies here. You know the card is altered and so does everyone reading this forum and Brent. Anything less is fraud in my opinion.

If I were even trying to do this right I would also include a picture of the card in the AUTH holder. And take out that fraudulent statement that the 2 grade is appropriate. No it isn't and you know it.

But I don't see any way to do this right. It's an altered card in a 2 holder and all the disclosure in the world isn't going to stop the buyer from reselling it without disclosure and that is a real concern.

dariushou 07-06-2019 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896405)
If I were even trying to do this right I would also include a picture of the card in the AUTH holder. And take out that fraudulent statement that the 2 grade is appropriate. No it isn't and you know it.

But I don't see any way to do this right. It's an altered card in a 2 holder and all the disclosure in the world isn't going to stop the buyer from reselling it without disclosure and that is a real concern.

I agree. It really should be pulled. These altered cards need to be marked in some way (invisible ink...but geez...maybe moser and crew can erase that). I hate to say destroy such card...but what else can you do. Actually, i think i read where someone said put a hole through it -- maybe invisible ink and a hole through it. scammers probably will fill the hole and erase invisible ink though. Man this sucks...

Peter_Spaeth 07-06-2019 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dariushou (Post 1896408)
I agree. It really should be pulled. These altered cards need to be marked in some way (invisible ink...but geez...maybe moser and crew can erase that). I hate to say destroy such card...but what else can you do. Actually, i think i read where someone said put a hole through it -- maybe invisible ink and a hole through it. scammers probably will fill the hole and erase invisible ink though. Man this sucks...

I would be OK with returning it to an AUTH/Altered holder.

Republicaninmass 07-06-2019 08:43 PM

:cool:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1895915)
And pardon the harshness

But I suggest you do some homework on t3s.

Clearly has been pressed, upper left and lower right. Looks like a pin hole filled, and two erasure marks around his name

I typed this Before blowout found it, but PSA couldnt see this?

pokerplyr80 07-06-2019 08:44 PM

Waiting on a response from Brent and I reached out to Dan as well and am waiting on his response. I will update with more information as I have it.

dariushou 07-06-2019 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896409)
I would be OK with returning it to an AUTH/Altered holder.

Unfortunately, it will just be cracked out. I'm not as tech savvy as some, but maybe some sort of application that could identify the card compared to past transactions...but then again that doesn't stop the card doctors from card doctoring cards that haven't been up for sale in recent history.

I just don't see a solution for current doctored cards unless they are destroyed...or clearly mark the card in some way. At least the card that is marked in some clear way could be scanned front and back and entered into a database so that collectors could compare the card against. I don't know. just playing the guessing game here. again, this doesn't protect the cards that are not known to be doctored...

kateighty 07-06-2019 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dariushou (Post 1896402)
The only right thing to do in my opinion is to either pull the auction or put it in the title of the auction. It needs to be clear and conspicuous and anything less such as including it in the description is not going to hold up. It's ridiculous to do anything other than those two options in my opinion. If someone buys that card and claim they didn't see the fine print (the description) then you will lose. FTC Standard and let me tell you something..it applies here. You know the card is altered and so does everyone reading this forum and Brent. Anything less is fraud in my opinion.

Yes. In my personal opinion as one of the lawyers here it should be pulled. It's perpetuating a pattern of fraud at the very least. Those directly involved should file a complaint with the FTC at the very least. I'm also hoping Brent isn't as dumb as he seems by this though who knows. Could very well (hopefully) be a set up by feds to help get to the bottom of this.

kateighty 07-06-2019 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1896414)
Waiting on a response from Brent and I reached out to Dan as well and am waiting on his response. I will update with more information as I have it.

As we all eagerly wait, how's everyone's Saturday night otherwise?

jfkheat 07-06-2019 08:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is the sale when it was in an Authentic holder

pokerplyr80 07-06-2019 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kateighty (Post 1896418)
As we all eagerly wait, how's everyone's Saturday night otherwise?

I assume that was said in jest, but will update any way. I just got off the phone with Brent and it was mutually agreed upon that the listing will be ended and the card returned to me. I will reach out to PSA and see if Dan responds and will report the outcome.

There were a few factors in play that led to a delay in what I first mentioned would be the probable outcome after the blowout post. But I do believe that this is the best course of action at this time.

Peter_Spaeth 07-06-2019 09:15 PM

That's good to hear. In my opinion that's definitely the right way to deal with the situation. No question it sucks as you innocently purchased the card and paid a good amount for it.

kateighty 07-06-2019 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1896425)
I assume that was said in jest, but will update any way. I just got off the phone with Brent and it was mutually agreed upon that the listing will be ended and the card returned to me. I will reach out to PSA and see if Dan responds and will report the outcome.

There were a few factors in play that led to a delay in what I first mentioned would be the probable outcome after the blowout post. But I do believe that this is the best course of action at this time.

Nope not in jest. I'm here on a Saturday night awaiting the outcome like everyone else. Why I'm not sure after Leon called me, the only vocal woman here, too thin skinned for this forum in a PM. Me and my thin skin are waiting here just like everyone else.

wondo 07-06-2019 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896430)
That's good to hear. In my opinion that's definitely the right way to deal with the situation. No question it sucks as you innocently purchased the card and paid a good amount for it.

p

What about if he returns it to the seller? Is that a legitimate option? I may have missed some stuff, but if someone sold me something that was found to be tainted, I’d go back to the guy I bought it from.

kateighty 07-06-2019 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondo (Post 1896435)
p

What about if he returns it to the seller? Is that a legitimate option? I may have missed some stuff, but if someone sold me something that was found to be tainted, I’d go back to the guy I bought it from.

Absolutely. Return it.

Rhotchkiss 07-06-2019 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicem (Post 1896392)
Too funny, if it were any other AH other than PWCC Jesse would be leading the charge pitchfork in hand.

If it were any other auction house, they would end the auction.

Edited - just read that this auction will be ended. Good.

MULLINS5 07-06-2019 10:00 PM

I'm glad the right thing was done.

Shame it took some backlash to get the owner to do the right thing.

Astonishing to think him and Brent thought it was OK to pull a stunt like that.

pokerplyr80 07-06-2019 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicem (Post 1896392)
Too funny, if it were any other AH other than PWCC Jesse would be leading the charge pitchfork in hand.

You must have me confused with someone else. The only time I ever remember speaking out against an AH was when a small one posted a fake 52 Mantle so bad it made the other fakes available on Ebay for 5 bucks look good. I don't recall leading a charge against another, but I suppose it's possible I've forgotten.

As for the Cobb I don't really expect Dan to take it back after 2 years, unless he happens to be involved in or knows what happened to it. If he wants to reach out and discuss a possible resolution I'm open to that.

I plan to contact PSA on Monday and hopefully drop the card off for review when I receive it back from PWCC. As I honestly don't know if erased pencil marks are enough for the A designation or why it it was in the A holder before I got it I am curious to see what they'll say.

dariushou 07-06-2019 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1896460)
You must have me confused with someone else. The only time I ever remember speaking out against an AH was when a small one posted a fake 52 Mantle so bad it made the other fakes available on Ebay for 5 bucks look good. I don't recall leading a charge against another, but I suppose it's possible I've forgotten.

As for the Cobb I don't really expect Dan to take it back after 2 years, unless he happens to be involved in or knows what happened to it. If he wants to reach out and discuss a possible resolution I'm open to that.

I plan to contact PSA on Monday and hopefully drop the card off for review when I receive it back from PWCC. As I honestly don't know if erased pencil marks are enough for the A designation or why it it was in the A holder before I got it I am curious to see what they'll say.


What in gods name do you mean when you state "if erased pencil marks are enough for the A designation". I hope you misspoke. Do you see the eraser marks on the card? I do as does everyone else. That's flagrant alternation but still misses the point. Using an eraser to erase a previous stain/pen/pencil mark will remove the color from the card and likely more than that...as seen in your card that was altered. There's no excuse here. The card you purchased from Dan was altered. Plain and simple.

Fuddjcal 07-06-2019 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896245)
Jesse bought this card from Dan McKee.

PWCC has it now: therefore it's Fake.

Fuddjcal 07-07-2019 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896430)
That's good to hear. In my opinion that's definitely the right way to deal with the situation. No question it sucks as you innocently purchased the card and paid a good amount for it.

Yes, good to hear and it does suck. I feel bad you're wrapped up in this. Honestly

BUT, It does go to show why you like to stick up for Brent Mastro all the time with all the 10's of 1000's of fraudulent acts he has committed...your sleeping with the fraud dog & maybe you didn't get the memo that the dog has fleas?

Hard to believe that with what you know, you would still do business with a F face like that, the king of trim. Imho, That card was probably recycled 3 times around PWCC for years before Dan got to it. Good luck with PSA too, they should stand right behind you!

pokerplyr80 07-07-2019 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dariushou (Post 1896461)
What in gods name do you mean when you state "if erased pencil marks are enough for the A designation". I hope you misspoke. Do you see the eraser marks on the card? I do as does everyone else. That's flagrant alternation but still misses the point. Using an eraser to erase a previous stain/pen/pencil mark will remove the color from the card and likely more than that...as seen in your card that was altered. There's no excuse here. The card you purchased from Dan was altered. Plain and simple.

Read PSA's definition of alteration on their website. If you read it the same way I did you'll understand my uncertainty. I'm hoping they see things the way you do and honor their guarantee.

dariushou 07-07-2019 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1896464)
Read PSA's definition of alteration on their website. If you read it the same way I did you'll understand my uncertainty. I'm hoping they see things the way you do and honor their guarantee.

I really do not understand your uncertainty. I just went to PSAs website and went to two locations:

1) https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards/#cards

Scroll down and click on "No Grade Definitions"

Do you really feel that your card passes those conditions? Honestly...N-2, N-3, N-5, N-7 and AA. really? you question all of those??

2) https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards/#cards

scroll down until you see "Ungradable Cards"...click on it

"PSA will not grade cards that bear evidence of trimming, re-coloring, restoration, or any other forms of tampering, or are of questionable authenticity."

That should about do it...

Please let me know where the uncertainty is and maybe i or other board members can help you out.

Goudey77 07-07-2019 01:15 AM

Is there a therapist in the house who could help the obsessive behavior :D
My god, take a step back and don’t forget to breath, kiss your wives, hug your kids and enjoy the fact you have the income to support such a hobby.

Johnny630 07-07-2019 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goudey77 (Post 1896469)
Is there a therapist in the house who could help the obsessive behavior :D
My god, take a step back and don’t forget to breath, kiss your wives, hug your kids and enjoy the fact you have the income to support such a hobby.

Agree except for your last word...Hobby.....It isn’t a hobby anymore it’s all
About MONEY....it’s very very sad has been this way for years now....it’s just gotten worse....to many people trying to make money...with less collectors...

Aquarian Sports Cards 07-07-2019 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896409)
I would be OK with returning it to an AUTH/Altered holder.

Seems like the easy solution but still doesn't prevent crack out resubs. If they missed it once...

Aquarian Sports Cards 07-07-2019 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kateighty (Post 1896416)
Yes. In my personal opinion as one of the lawyers here it should be pulled. It's perpetuating a pattern of fraud at the very least. Those directly involved should file a complaint with the FTC at the very least. I'm also hoping Brent isn't as dumb as he seems by this though who knows. Could very well (hopefully) be a set up by feds to help get to the bottom of this.

He's got a number of Moser cards (the guy with whom he will never do business again) in the current auction as found by BO.

jhs5120 07-07-2019 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 1896505)
He's got a number of Moser cards (the guy with whom he will never do business again) in the current auction as found by BO.

Are you just assuming Moser is the consignor?

jhs5120 07-07-2019 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny630 (Post 1896477)
Agree except for your last word...Hobby.....It isn’t a hobby anymore it’s all
About MONEY....it’s very very sad has been this way for years now....it’s just gotten worse....to many people trying to make money...with less collectors...

Seriously, all these pitchforks about an erased pencil mark. It’s a shame no one can just enjoy the cards anymore.

frankbmd 07-07-2019 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhs5120 (Post 1896508)
Seriously, all these pitchforks about an erased pencil mark. It’s a shame no one can just enjoy the cards anymore.

We are all simulated hoplites.

Republicaninmass 07-07-2019 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhs5120 (Post 1896507)
Are you just assuming Moser is the consignor?

Most of
The ones posted were won by Whitman111 which is linked to Moser.

jhs5120 07-07-2019 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1896519)
Most of
The ones posted were won by Whitman111 which is linked to Moser.

If this thread has taught us one thing, Moser's cards have changed hands several times.

Republicaninmass 07-07-2019 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhs5120 (Post 1896520)
If this thread has taught us one thing, Moser's cards have changed hands several times.

Not particularly, the Cobb wasn't a Moser card at all.

Almost all the others were won by whitman111 or out of an auction house before being altered. Of course they we then given a sticker and changed hands most of the time.

jhs5120 07-07-2019 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1896521)
Not particularly, the Cobb wasn't a Moser card at all.

Almost all the others were won by whitman111 or out of an auction house before being altered. Of course they we then given a sticker and changed hands most of the time.

Which cards are listed with PWCC that we know were consigned by Moser?

MULLINS5 07-07-2019 09:43 AM

Cards were also purchased by Brent, altered, and then sold.

BLongley 07-07-2019 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhs5120 (Post 1896525)
Which cards are listed with PWCC that we know were consigned by Moser?

Which cards are listed with PWCC that you know weren’t consigned by Moser?

The Exceptional T206 Matty Portrait has been sold by PWCC before, and is tied to Moser, Whitman111, which all can clearly see the before and after alterations... and is for sale again with PWCC...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...39&postcount=1

I’m not sure what points you’re trying to make, besides trying to argue with people. Go buy from PWCC if you want or wherever you want... who cares? For someone who commented before about enjoying cards... maybe you should take your own advice?

xplainer 07-07-2019 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896375)
And yet the amendment says the following.
In our opinion the current grade of a 'Good 2' appears completely appropriate.

A disgrace.

This is absolutely double talk. I can not even believe you would post it here.
I just sit back and learn the character of members here, by what they post and what they admit to.

swarmee 07-07-2019 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xplainer (Post 1896547)
This is absolutely double talk. I can not even believe you would post it here.
I just sit back and learn the character of members here, by what they post and what they admit to.

He is quoting Brent in that instance. Or maybe I'm reading your post wrong.

jhs5120 07-07-2019 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLongley (Post 1896543)
Which cards are listed with PWCC that you know weren’t consigned by Moser?

The Exceptional T206 Matty Portrait has been sold by PWCC before, and is tied to Moser, Whitman111, which all can clearly see the before and after alterations... and is for sale again with PWCC...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...39&postcount=1

I’m not sure what points you’re trying to make, besides trying to argue with people. Go buy from PWCC if you want or wherever you want... who cares? For someone who commented before about enjoying cards... maybe you should take your own advice?

If we want to throw out accusations without evidence, I won't stand in the way of the mob.

Thousands of cards have been tied to Moser and have since been sold to unwitting buyers. Which cards that are currently listed do we know were consigned by Moser?

If the answer is none, then the focus should be on notifying PWCC (and unwitting consignors) of their cards rather than assume that PWCC and consignor knows of the alleged alterations. Right?

Fuddjcal 07-07-2019 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896361)
The title has not changed. The amendment won't even be seen unless someone scrolls all the way to the very bottom after the pages of PWCC boilerplate. This is BS. I thought you had more integrity than this.

there you go thinking again. I knew he didn't have any integrity after singing his friend Brenty Mastro's praises to anyone who would listen for weeks. This is just the kind of guy that he is, that they both are. SCAMMERS

Jesse and Brenty sitting in a tree, K I S S I N G

Fuddjcal 07-07-2019 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhs5120 (Post 1896557)
If we want to throw out accusations without evidence, I won't stand in the way of the mob.

Thousands of cards have been tied to Moser and have since been sold to unwitting buyers. Which cards that are currently listed do we know were consigned by Moser?

If the answer is none, then the focus should be on notifying PWCC (and unwitting consignors) of their cards rather than assume that PWCC and consignor knows of the alleged alterations. Right?

wrong, it's not only Moser. it's 10' card Doctors. Moser is the biggest idiot AT the moment. Notify PWCC LOLOLOLOLOL:D:D:D:D. What, are you a stand up comedian?

All PWCC does is spin cards in and out of plastic containers, altering in the process. That's the facts. AND he's been doing it a long time. EVERYTHING he touches should be considered suspect at this point. These are not acqusation any longer. They are FACTS. They are right in front of you, all you have to do is open one of your eyes just a peek.

Fuddjcal 07-07-2019 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquarian sports cards (Post 1895839)
now to answer your question. Pwcc has nothing worth bidding on, unless you want to support a corrupt company who has worked hand in glove for years with some of the wort people in the hobby. Then, have at it!

exactly.

xplainer 07-07-2019 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1896556)
He is quoting Brent in that instance. Or maybe I'm reading your post wrong.

No, that is my response to what Brent wrote. Sorry.

And yeah, in the end, he asked that the item be taken down. But look at the all flack he got until finally did. Wow.

BLongley 07-07-2019 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhs5120 (Post 1896557)
If we want to throw out accusations without evidence, I won't stand in the way of the mob.

Thousands of cards have been tied to Moser and have since been sold to unwitting buyers. Which cards that are currently listed do we know were consigned by Moser?

If the answer is none, then the focus should be on notifying PWCC (and unwitting consignors) of their cards rather than assume that PWCC and consignor knows of the alleged alterations. Right?

So Brent is supposedly reaching out to customers that bought altered cards through his auction house in the past. Here is a link https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1304350 again as I posted earlier, where Brett sold THIS EXACT t206 PSA 2.5 Matty Portrait and instead of contacting the purchaser who was duped, he now has this EXACT Moser card for sale in his CURRENT auction.

Shouldn’t Brett simply be refunding the purchaser who was duped?? Why is it selling in the auction again??

Bottom line which is the point everyone is trying to make is that PWCC can’t be trusted, Brent is a liar and a cheat... he doesn’t do anything ‘good’ for the hobby and will try and rip people off for the rest of his life...

Peter_Spaeth 07-07-2019 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 1896569)
wrong, it's not only Moser. it's 10' card Doctors. Moser is the biggest idiot AT the moment. Motify PWCC LOLOLOLOLOL:D:D:D:D. What, are you a stand up comedian?

All PWCC does is spin cards in and out of plastic containers, altering in the process. That's the facts. AND he's been doing it a long time. EVERYTHING he touches should be considered suspect at this point. These are not acqusation any longer. They are FACTS. They are right in front of you, all you have to do is open one of your eyes just a peek.

Notifying PWCC did a lot of good on the Mantle that started this latest round. And on the T3 Cobb. I am sorry to say it, but this man's heart (I can't speak to the rest of the company) just does not appear to be in the right place. His instinct seems to be to do the wrong thing and when confronted to dissemble. He no longer deserves to be accorded any presumptions in his favor.

Fuddjcal 07-07-2019 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896580)
Notifying PWCC did a lot of good on the Mantle that started this latest round. And on the T3 Cobb. I am sorry to say it, but this man's heart (I can't speak to the rest of the company) just does not appear to be in the right place. His instinct seems to be to do the wrong thing and when confronted to dissemble. He no longer deserves to be accorded any presumptions in his favor.

AND neither does Jesse Asshat, your name is your destiny.

wondo 07-07-2019 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wondo (Post 1896435)
p

What about if he returns it to the seller? Is that a legitimate option? I may have missed some stuff, but if someone sold me something that was found to be tainted, I’d go back to the guy I bought it from.

Maybe I missed another response in addition to Kat's, but what is the seller's responsibility if he sells a tainted card? Can he claim novice ignorance, just say, "It was Moser and PWCC!", and wash his hands?

swarmee 07-07-2019 03:04 PM

If it's been graded by PSA, and it's past the return window, the seller could tell you to take it up with PSA. Or he could take the return and try to return it to his own seller or go to PSA himself.

Kind of reminds me of the thread where we discussed the theft of some rare caramel cards that were summarily sold to a dealer and spread amongst the National buyers/sellers. The theory at that time was that "good title" was not conveyed during the sale because they had been stolen. So the cards were supposed to be rebought by the sellers until they made it back to the dealer who bought the stolen cards. I'm not sure that concept is in play here, but as PSA has a grade guarantee, I'd call them first.

pokerplyr80 07-07-2019 03:09 PM

To those who apparently still have a problem with the way this was handled I will say this. I found out Friday that a card I legitimately purchased was altered and bumped from an A to a 2 holder. I notified the AH immediately, and communicated back and forth via email. An agreement was reached to disclose the history and keep the auction live.

It became clear soon after that the disclosure was insufficient, and the auction was almost immediately pulled once I became aware. This was about 24 hours after the first mention on blowout. This was all going on while I was in the office and also focused on work there. I did my best to communicate in real time what was going on.

I have heard back from the person I purchased the card from. He declined to buy it back for what I paid. It will go to PSA next for a review.

BeanTown 07-07-2019 03:33 PM

Just curious who you got it from Jesse and Hi. Sucks, that there are many worked on cards in the hobby that have been holdered over the years. There shouod be a database like the registry but it has all the bad cards and cert numbers listed. It would make great cross reference for all AHs to use going forward.

Peter_Spaeth 07-07-2019 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1896640)
If it's been graded by PSA, and it's past the return window, the seller could tell you to take it up with PSA. Or he could take the return and try to return it to his own seller or go to PSA himself.

Kind of reminds me of the thread where we discussed the theft of some rare caramel cards that were summarily sold to a dealer and spread amongst the National buyers/sellers. The theory at that time was that "good title" was not conveyed during the sale because they had been stolen. So the cards were supposed to be rebought by the sellers until they made it back to the dealer who bought the stolen cards. I'm not sure that concept is in play here, but as PSA has a grade guarantee, I'd call them first.

Maybe he couldn't take the return because he submitted it himself and the guarantee therefore would not apply? Anyhow Dan is certainly free to tell his side of the story.

Johnny630 07-07-2019 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896651)
Maybe he couldn't take the return because he submitted it himself and the guarantee therefore would not apply? Anyhow Dan is certainly free to tell his side of the story.

Peter/John R my mind is going in circles.....it’s all to much for me...it’s like clearing a building with endless rooms and hallways...one twist to the others is another Shit Show...it’s really a shame/stressful ... Keep up all the due diligence, you guys have done a excellent job so far exposing this and keeping it real .....I’m not as intelligent as many...I try to keep it simple....my mind has been made up a while now...

Republicaninmass 07-07-2019 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1896651)
Maybe he couldn't take the return because he submitted it himself and the guarantee therefore would not apply? Anyhow Dan is certainly free to tell his side of the story.

Any clue who Dan bought it from, if not Greg Biz?

Peter_Spaeth 07-07-2019 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1896690)
Any clue who Dan bought it from, if not Greg Biz?

I have no idea if he bought it from Greg or if there was an intervening sale or at what point the work was done on the card.

Rhotchkiss 07-07-2019 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1896642)
To those who apparently still have a problem with the way this was handled I will say this. I found out Friday that a card I legitimately purchased was altered and bumped from an A to a 2 holder. I notified the AH immediately, and communicated back and forth via email. An agreement was reached to disclose the history and keep the auction live.

It became clear soon after that the disclosure was insufficient, and the auction was almost immediately pulled once I became aware. This was about 24 hours after the first mention on blowout. This was all going on while I was in the office and also focused on work there. I did my best to communicate in real time what was going on.

I have heard back from the person I purchased the card from. He declined to buy it back for what I paid. It will go to PSA next for a review.

End of the day, you did the right thing. That’s what matters. It’s nice to see someone act with integrity. You may get crap from others for prior comments and/or opinions, but in this case, you 100% acted well (you did not have to).

CobbSpikedMe 07-07-2019 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 1896716)
End of the day, you did the right thing. That’s what matters. It’s nice to see someone act with integrity. You may get crap from others for prior comments and/or opinions, but in this case, you 100% acted well (you did not have to).

Also, Jesse, for what's it worth, I for one didn't think you were the one who decided to bury the disclosure in the bottom of the description where nobody would see it. I could be wrong, but I figured Brent talked you into leaving the listing up and that he told you he would take care of it and all would be good. Then when you found out how he handled it you didn't agree with his method and you decided to remove the listing altogether. A class A move. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought anyway.

MULLINS5 07-07-2019 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe (Post 1896734)
Also, Jesse, for what's it worth, I for one didn't think you were the one who decided to bury the disclosure in the bottom of the description where nobody would see it. I could be wrong, but I figured Brent talked you into leaving the listing up and that he told you he would take care of it and all would be good. Then when you found out how he handled it you didn't agree with his method and you decided to remove the listing altogether. A class A move. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought anyway.


He knew about the disclosure and even posted it here in this thread word for word.


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