I remember reading where Spence authenticated a facsimile Churchill autograph on a form letter.

I'd never heard that, but I wouldn't be surprised. I trust some on this board way more than any TPG.

I try not to puff up my friends, and we're hijacking a little. But I gotta say if you haven't worked with Mike Root who started CAS. You are missing out. Not only does he do a great job, but he's willing to take time to explain things. He's not hoarding his knowledge some some weird cult. He gladly tells you what he's looking for if you have questions. He's also happy to call on other's expertise instead of just taking a guess. He's got some great guys on his side.

My favorite story is a collection I was bringing to auction. The collection was amassed in two ways. The owner had serious health issues and was bedridden as a fairly young man for almost two years. He did THOUSANDS of TTM requests. When his health started to come around he started getting things done in person.

Without any sorting, or explanation Mike went through the collection and literally rejected only TTM pieces. Out of the hundreds of in person autographs not one failed. It's not necessarily that he's perfect, who is? But I was mightily impressed.

Herman Darvick
 

Scott -- CAS seems at first to be a reputable authenticator, but when you look at the "team" behind Root, you find Herman Darvick. That raises HUGE red flags with me (from my non-sports autograph collecting hobby days). This might be a source point (or sore point), from Steve Koschal. I don't know all the intrigue, or if Koschal is right or wrong, but this worries me a lot about CAS, FWIW.

http://autographplanet.com/forum/her...fuel-the-autog

Leon prefers no links to this site but here is the description.

39. The REA-Winston Churchill JSA-Authenticated Facsimile Letter-

This facsimile letter sent out by Winston Churchill was authenticated by JSA as an authentic handwritten document by the British Prime Minister. JSA noted the pen pressure and other characteristics they examined which revealed the document was genuine. But the document was a mass-produced facsimile sent out to many recipients and exhibited no evidience of ink or pen ever being applied to the paper. The bogus offering was later pulled from REA’s Spring 2013 sale after JSA’s blunder was exposed.

and no lawsuits..... because evidently everyone is waiting for the PSA review process or are being paid off and happy

Also nobody submits to PSA anymore or will wait in line due to all of these major problems..

With all this no lawsuit posts are you begging for work?

An inquiring mind also may ponder whether or not other card doctors have been doing this.....not as bold and or arrogant to the fact of doing it in the same auction house while buying using same eBay account....leads me to believe other guys may have been doing this more inconspicuously...if past behavior has never been held accountable what’s to lead anyone to believe it would to them...when there are zero consequences for ones behavior you get more of the same behavior...
We all live in a Wild West Industry That has always been loaded with this....

Appears to be no work. Everyone is happy it appears..or willing to wait 3 months or years for PSA to review their card because what choice do they have..

Speak for yourself.

There are MANY card doctors.

talk is cheap, when there are actual lawsuits, there will be something to really discuss.... everyone can say all the witty things they want back and forth but its just talk until theres an actual lawsuit.

Agree and Almost Zero Peter have been held accountable...

Countless claims, even substantial ones, get resolved every day without an actual lawsuit. Do you genuinely not know that?

Don't know the specifics of that particular guy, I just know he has some that are very well-respected in the autograph world. Also they are not guys who work for Mike every day, they are consultants if he has questions. I mainly liked the idea that Mike doesn't pretend to know everything like some autograph guys do.

Yup. The train just keeps on rolling. Bad people profit and good people (most anyhow) do nothing. We'll see if the recent revelations which are so in your face and shocking and undeniable bring about any change.

I'm not convinced he's a lawyer. No one could be this clueless, even the shittiest slip and fall lawyer.

The average value of a trimmed card in this mess is probably $2000. Let's say it's $5000. Jake, do you think people are going to run to sue over that amount of money? Or will they try like hell to do anything they can to avoid paying a lawyer more money than the value of the card they're suing over? Even the guy with the trimmed PSA 10 Musial didn't sue immediately. He's clearly trying to get his money back without the need for costly, lengthy litigation.

Not to mention that most people don't live in California so they would have to contemplate bringing out of state litigation.

But I have a 2K card that's been identified as possibly trimmed and I'm REALLY pissed so I am going to find a lawyer who practices in Orange County, and pay him or her whatever it takes to file and pursue a lawsuit RIGHT NOW, even though it's premature because PSA hasn't reviewed the card yet or said no on their guarantee. I am sure the lawyer can get around that. And if I have to travel to California to testify at trial, so be it, damn it. That 2K card is THAT important to me.

right and if zero lawsuits then everyone is happy...seems like all of the at fault people are taking care of everything right?

Yeah so the total people that are pissed off adds up to 2k...the guy with the 60k loss isnt pissed off. People in america never sue but why would they if they are willing to wait 5 years for review because as you said 'what choice to they have' or apparently everyone is being paid back on the guarantee...

why all this talk if everyone is satisfied..

Everyone will try to get their money back....people are arguing right here on this forum about whether certain cards are trimmed or not yet it appears everyone with a claim will get paid back exactly how they want. I would think there will be disagreements with some claims whether its whether the card should of been deemed trimmed or what the worth of the card is and who should pay it etc.

If you have 10 cards that are 5k each it adds up. I thought we are talking about 100s of cards.. BP oil after the spill said they will pay everyone what they owe yet there were still lawsuits.

I just saying that thus far everyone seems happy. I will wait 2 months from now to see if any lawsuits. I hope you at least agree that gives enough time for PSA to review the cards that are submitted. as Peter said 'what choice do they (buyers) have'

Jake you seem pretty happy, have you filed a lawsuit yet? Don't you have some expensive high grade PSA cards or did you sell all your cards?

I dont have any altered cards, if i did, you know what i would be doing....

.

Best quote of the day. Thanks Jake.

How can you be so sure by the way? Just askin'.

Oh boy....another NSCC SGC graded... a big one!
 

Looks like they hit SGC hard at the national last year with some big cards.:(

Take a wild guess

Jake, do you think ALL of the PWCC buyers of Gary Moser related cards have been notified that they may own an altered card? If not, do you think PWCC should notify them or should the buyers just have to figure it all out on their own? Do you think PWCC should release to the public a list of all cards connected to Moser?

It doesnt matter about what they should do for everyone. I still wondering when just 1 'wronged' purchaser files a lawsuit and a lots of issues will be addressed in discovery.

However it appears thus far everyone is willing to wait months to have their cards reviewed that they bought for 10k but were sold months before for 3k as much lower graded card (and have before and after pictures of an alteration/trimming because

a) what choice do they have
b) they are already been reimbursed and everyone agrees what a fair price
c) not worth their time (out of state court) and costs involved/legal fees

I dont think my 1987 topps raw in fair grade have been altered but you are free to go through the 4000 cards to prove me wrong...

I thought I read somewhere that some of the BO guys were planning to go to the National and hang out near PWCCs table to hand out flyers to get the word to more collectors. Is that right? If so, do they planning on hanging out near PSA's table too? Would they be escorted out by security?

I went to the National in 2013 in Chicago and I would have to assume this type of behavior wouldn't be tolerated and they would be removed immediately.

If they plan something like this they should stand out front of the Rosemont Center and hand out fliers as people cross the street.

Obviously all parties are reading the various boards and so they will know issues like this might be coming and will prep security in advance and potentially have their own funded security.

Bad idea to try this.

Maybe they can hire some wrestling guys. :eek:

Peter I would expect that some parties that have been named will show up with their own private security.

A month or so back I was at the gym and saw a dude doing curls with the largest arms I have ever seen in person. I ended up close to him doing some sets and said OMG I have never seen arms that big and we shook hands and I got his Instagram name so I could follow his bodybuilding progress. It turns out he does a lot of private security I see from looking at his pics. He is the type of dude that will be hired is my bet. No one is going to run their mouth to this guy. No one.

Not only is safety obviously a concern but so would retaliation. The last thing anyone needs is someone getting in their face and a fight ensuing and then a lawsuit or jail.

If I had to bet I think a lot of the people that are saying they have plans to cause a scene or confront certain individuals will chicken out.

One thing for sure it will be an interesting show.

You remember SGC graders were involved in grading forged signatures, which would fall under the preview of the FBI. I believe they're still working that case. The SEC would only look at this company if it were publicly traded. It appears to be an LLC.

+1

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

The investigation is of the forger, not SGC.

No lawsuits yet. No problems. Cases were brought within days of the BP oil spill.

An SGC slab contained an altered card, ergo the FBI is about to arrest everyone at SGC.

BLEEP, no wonder my current submission is taking so long.:rolleyes:

Dave knowing how this hobby works half those people will be lining up to consign.

I wouldn't spend any time looking at the 1987 Topps raw. But all those pretty 1952 Topps and 1954 Topps PSA cards likely have an altered card or two mixed in. So again, how do you know they aren't?

That will teach them to miss bleach. Criminal negligence!!

Have we come up with any Gangster Nick Names for these notorious Card Doctors Yet ? Would love to hear some funny ones to lighten the mood on this awful subject.

Check out Sports Card Radio.

What Peter said. I think "Dollar Tree" is my favorite so far.

Which one is dollar tree ?
Someone told me there is some guy called Magic Touch.
Is sport card radio a website ?

Thanks Peter

He knows because there have been no lawsuits about the cards. Harm prevented.

I dont have those cards anymore that were in the PSA registry. So you wouldnt spend any time looking at the 1987 topps raw but yet find it hard to believe I know they were not altered?

Nah but you you believe no one would file suit on a 100k fraud because too much time and effort involved and in America nobody sues for anything because of all the time and fees. Or everyone always agrees to resolve things before a lawsuit and everyone always agrees to the numbers about how much a card is worth

The value of a card is never argued. Everyone is being paid back to their satisfaction, harm prevented.

Agree.

Number 1 for PSA is be quiet.....Sure they're gonna say all the right thing during this time... Crisis Management Mode for Newport Beach.
They will weather the storm....people only care about money...... as long as people keep buying in that there product will bring their cards the most money they will continue to thrive.
The Lines at this Years National Will Prove My Theory
It's a Sad State Of Affairs

Deny Minimize Contain Deflect Reassure

Repeat the same empty slogans. Maybe they even believe them?

And -- as the song from Evita goes -- the money kept rolling in.

And Evita had a sad early ending to her life. Dead by age 33.

So all you have now is a bunch of 1987 Topps raw cards in your collection? No more PSA cards anymore? How do you manage all the excitement there?

I went through 142 pages on the blowout cards forum seeing if I formerly owned any of the altered cards and to save scans of cards I may have been interested in the future had this scandal not been opposed.

I was specifically interested in Cobb cards. For statistically purposes, I found 13 altered prewar Ty Cobb cards in those 142 pages. They were T206s, T205s, D304 and T227s. 11 had been goofed by PSA and 2 goofed by SGC.

I have some PSA cards not on the registry. You want to go through my 1974 Topps PSA 3 commons? I will say they are unaltered as well. I always on the lookout for old high dollar cards and sometimes I have a bunch sometimes I dont. Right now I know I dont have any altered cards. However you are free to look through my raw 1987 topps and low grade 1974 topps and the like..

You make me smile Jake. Thank you. :)

How about if a board lawyer is representing any of the involved fraudulent parties? You don't need a lawsuit to take a retainer do you? A retainer would be considered work, right? I am not saying there are any representing anyone but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

I can assure you that I, for one, am not. I sincerely hope that ALL the fraudsters are charged criminally, and I also hope they get their asses sued off civilly. PSA also needs to back up its warranty. I hope it gets its ass sued off too if it doesn't.

To Jake, despite your claims, sometimes it takes a while. I agree with Peter on that. You are allegedly a lawyer. I mean, seriously? Give me a break.

Something tells me each lawyer in this thread can't say the same thing.

Lawsuits are a whole different animal then some lawyer sending a letter.

Enough time has passed that if this was such a huge deal and there were victims everywhere a lawsuit would of been filed. Maybe down the line there will be some but apparently this issue isnt so bad .

Not all lawsuits take forever. Plenty are filed and settled very fast and quickly which avoids fees and costs. Lets not kid ourselves that most lawsuits go to trial

How do you not understand what Leon is saying???

Jake is going to post the same thought as many times and in as many threads as he can. It doesn't matter what he's responding to.

NO LAWSUITS YET.
MUST NOT BE A BIG DEAL.

+1. Unfortunate, if true.

Add that to the "just let it go" and the "as long as the cards value isn't affected there's no problem" people, it makes me wonder if the Doctor/PSA supporters are involved or just don't care about anything but money.

They only care about money...it’s sad....it’s been a Industry for years.....
Hobby what’s that anymore .....Oy vey

and you will will keep citing certain card sale and point over and over how wrong it is yet no 'victims' are filing lawsuits..

There are terrible things that happen in which lawsuits are filed, and there are terrible things that happen to a lesser degree in which lawsuits are not filed

I am guessing he is looking for work or he found a client and has no idea what to do. So he is hoping someone on here can help out a fellow lawyer who is lost. Why else would someone post the same thing over and over?

so you are guessing. Most of this topic is filled with people saying the same thing over and over and guessing. Maybe you are trying to get clients to refer to a lawyer, i just guessing. Now are are both guessing and saying things.

Now lets see if you guess again and and post the same thing over and over.

Am I having a stroke?

At least i am honest and say I am guessing. You keep repeating the same thing over and over after being told you are WRONG. I know DFTT, sorry guys.:D

Ok so you are guessing and saying the same thing over and over.

So you telling me I am wrong is also guess as well. The people agreeing nothing will happen at all are also guessing. I will be guessing, you will be guessing, we all will be guessing. It will be anarchy (breakfast club)

DFTT as well to you.. .sorry guys.

always interesting to look what he quotes given who he represents now

Wow A real lawyer!

hobby
 

Im sure glad I collect low grade cheap cards

This one takes the cake as the absolute worst of the worst to me

Ray Charles could have seen this....

Mr. Orlando could you please explain what’s your Opinion On this One??

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?p=14874068