I find this whole situation extraordinary. The 36 DiMaggio is just one of many thousands of altered cards that are currently slabbed, yet every time a major auction concludes we see countless price records for high end cards shattered. At what point does the hobby say enough is enough? And when do TPG's start investing in better technology so they can start ferreting out these bad cards instead of holdering them?

I understand why collectors hold on to what they have. The common mantra is "I don't actually have any of these bad cards in my collection, it's only the other guy who has the altered ones. I checked mine out carefully and they're all good." That is the ostrich with his head in the sand that has been a fixture of this hobby for as long as I can remember. But why don't collectors finally stand up and say we aren't going to buy any more of this crap until the TPG's find a better way to do this. As I said, I really find this to be amazing. If somebody else can explain this, please do.

Stuff trumps all, Barry, you know that. These little one off fiascos will flare and die every so often and nothing will change. And the criminals know that.

My guess, and this is only a guess, is the OP is a criminal himself. And if he comes back with good registration information I will say I was wrong. No problemo. Actually, I hope I am wrong.

I know Peter that it's all about the stuff, but that's too simple an answer. I'm happy to pay a dollar for a card that's worth a dollar, but I won't pay a dollar for a card that was worth twenty-five cents before the doctors got to it. There's a disconnect that doesn't make sense. Everybody wants to get a good value and not to get taken.

Better to buy low-->mid grade. They aren't exempt from this nonsense, but it's less likely.

There may be a lot of doctored cards in slabs. But I bet there are a lot more cards that are genuine and, for the most part, accurately graded. Can you imagine the state of the hobby right now if companies like SGC and PSA didn't exist and all we had were raw copies. Talk about the card doctors going to town and having a heyday, whew! I have seen the advent of slabbed cards come into being. I got together with a few other collectors back in the early 1990's and sent in my first PSA submission. Dang, I thought, this is cool, a step toward getting it right and not getting shystered. So I dove back into the hobby with long term investment in mind. Glad I did. But looking back, I highly doubt I would have ever put decent money into this hobby if all we had was raw. Yeah, some will get through, like no duh. But imho it is sure better than the old days.

I am guessing there are a lot more cards that have been messed with in slabs than we think. The slab gives a false sense of security so that we do not need to look for alterations. As buyers we can be less educated on how to spot those alterations and what to look for if we solely rely on what the grading companies tell us--the dumbing of the consumer. Once the card is slabbed it is harder to see alterations. So I am not sure that grading is benefiting end users as much as it was intending to.

How someone was able to cut up this Joe D card and get it past SGC does not sit right with me. If the work is getting THAT good it is a huge problem. Still curious how the OP figured it out. It is almost a needle in a haystack.

Solid point
 

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

OP obviously pays close attention to these cards, look at his name and avatar.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240251

Is t this the same card the op wanTed to buy?

The card in that link appears to be the same as the card in the new 7 holder. The cert# on the 60 seems to be graded after this 84...? could the imperfections on the back be print anomalies on multiple Joe D's?

Bizarre turn of events
 

I like a good crime mystery but I am having difficulty understanding why the original poster would have been looking for this exact card back in 2017 and then almost a year later the same person finds that the card has been auctioned once since, then sliced up and re-graded. The fact that SGC missed the alteration is troubling. I don't know what to think about the rest of the story. We are part of a group of strange individuals.

I think it was sliced up before it graded an 84, no?

I don't know...
 

I guess so. But why would this poster chase this card and post about it after the auctions...and why is Leon calling him a criminal? Weird story.

To clarify: The cert# on the 60 in the original post is later than the cert# on the 84 in that link from 2017, meaning the 60 was graded after the 84. The 84 looks like the same card as the newer 7 everyone thinks is trimmed. it could be that the old 84 was re-holdered into the newer style 7. This would mean that the 60 isn't the same card as the 7 = 60 not trimmed into a 7.

The backs of the 60 and the 7 look very similar though. Do some Joe D. backs from that set have the same printing imperfections from a crappy printing plate?

I said my guess is he is a criminal, (fraud or troll.) I don't know for sure because he(or she) fraudulently registered on this forum. Some of this posters posts, as I read through them, reminded me of someone trolling. Maybe I am wrong but why would this poster email and say he is going to sue me (what does that make, about a thousand of those threats?) instead of giving good registration info?

.

Hi Leon, I'm confused
 

Are we talking about Renne, who has posted 92 times and been on the board for almost two years?

Tim

PS: I don't doubt what you're saying at all - just trying to keep up with this very strange story...

Yes. Apparently you missed the fact that this exact same sort of thing happened recently with the T206 autograph forger thread. Manny (Setbuilder) is banned for bad registration info too, after 7 yrs and over 600 posts. It doesn't matter how long or how many posts someone has done, bad registration info always gets the boot. If it is corrected they are reinstated. Neither of these members wanted to give good contact info instead of staying banned...It is their call, not mine. I didn't have anything against either one, whomever they are.

makes sense
 

I agree, bad registration info is definitely grounds for banning- thanks-

T

Hi Tim
I denote a bit of sarcasm, but maybe not. At any rate I don't feel someone should be a allowed to out a fraudster while being a fraudster. Somewhere it is called a clean hands doctrine. In this forum world you have to have clean hands to combat fraud yourself. No fraudsters allowed to detect other fraudsters. And if nothing else their registrations are fraudulent. I watch too much Judge Judy. :) Wouldn't it be something if one of these really was Nash? One of the biggest fraudsters the hobby has ever known fighting crime. Sweet....

,

Sounds reasonable Leon. Since the one rule around here is a name on posts with opinions it would be hard to enforce if people are registering with fake info.

It also seems very odd that the guy wanted to buy the card he outed as doctored. Can any of our site detectives determine what that's all about?

It was 2 years ago maybe he hadn't put it together at the time with the earlier iteration.

It still seems very odd at best. How many posts have you seen that say "I want to buy this card" and have a picture of said card in the wtb listing? I recall maybe 1 or 2 where it was a previously owned card that held sentimental significance.

no sarcasm meant
 

No, I totally agree with you (you were thrown off by my being sincere for a change)- if someone is unwilling to provide their actual info to the moderator, then they should be banned-

With the current Authentic vs 6.5 Controversy thought I would bump this up. A different scenario but Another 36 WWG Joe D.

I agree that the card graded 7 has been trimmed but can't help wondering if they might be 2 different cards. I say this because to my eye the centering appears slightly different; the graded 5 seems to have 50/50 centering while the 7 is more 70/30. Not trying to be the Devil's Advocate, just the way the cards appear to my eye.

If you look at all the photos posted on the first page, then you will see that they are not two different cards. Somebody trimmed the left and right edges of that SGC 5 and turned it into an SGC 7.

And what's even more f**ked up is that SGC did nothing about it (despite all the evidence that clearly shows both L&R edges being trimmed). It is still up on their database:

SEARCHED AUTH CODE:
2300782
Set:
1936 World Wide Gum Co.
Card #:
51
Subject:
Joe Di Maggio
Description:
-
Graded On:
June 2011
Grade:
7 NM

I mean to me this just means that there isn't a grading company that out there that is 100% foolproof, and that detecting trimmed cards is more difficult than we think? Which sucks. I don't really think SGC should be ashamed about this, it's just the way it is. Humans aren't perfect machines and every grading company will f up from time to time.

Think about all the times this probably happens and no one puts it together and posts about it like this on a message board.

Does this issue vary quite a bit in terms of size??

I don't think you understand the severity of this. Despite seeing the before and after scans which clearly shows that the L&R borders were chopped, SGC still chose to do nothing about it. They had a chance to fix this mistake, but decided not to. This is very unprofessional and one day somebody is going to pay three million dollars for this trimmed POS.

SGC 7 1936 WWG Joe Dimaggio Trimmed
 

See post #66 in this thread. Contact for Heritage Auctions said that card would be sent to SGC for review. It would be very sad if SGC left this card in the Holder and just moved on. But given it is still on the POP report it looks like that is what happened.

Oh ok, didn't realize they actually knew about it and decided to ignore it. Well, when it comes to money people will ignore morals and ethics, I guess. And I'm generally an SGC fan, way over PSA.